Do you believe the mob in NY is gaining strength?

Please vote and weigh in.

Gaining strength compared to the situation in the early 2000's, I absolutely think that yes..

The admin of the 3 strongest families has been out (not in jail) for years now as far as I can tell and the FEDs have less manpower to go after them, so they have to be getting stronger I think. But it's all just speculation ofcourse..

But hey, that's why we're here no??

Yes the Feds are afraid of terrorism and cartels the 5 fams never turn to what was in the early 80s but could stabile and grown the man power. Anyone had a list of the people made from 2010 to today ?

Mr. Frankel, who supervises the FBI's organized crime squads in New York, said he believes the city's Cosa Nostra has quietly staged a comeback and is now more powerful than it has been in years.

- 2014 Wall Street Journal article


I take this to mean they could be as strong as they were in the early 2000's. Not 1990's era (or before) strength however.

Ivy confirm this 5 family strenght ?

Genovese 200+ made men
Gambino 200
Lucchese 120-150
Bonanno 120-140
Colombo about 100

It seems it's all about having boots on the ground to combat Organized crime or any other criminal group. From what the Feds have said their investigated priorities have changed and they are now concentrating on Terrorism, corruption and Wall street crimes. So when they cut back the manpower the investigations are of course affected. By not having the manpower available to work these cases, or man their bugs and wiretapps, or conduct surveillances or develop informants, it affords OC to do what they do best, continue to commit their crimes unimpeded. And this of course means that they can and will grow in numbers. Just my opinion.

Well, they've shut down the NYPD Organized Crime squads, due to budget constraints, so they claim. I think that also stands for NY FBI offices as well, but I'm not too sure. They're undoubtedly gaining a stronger foothold than what they've had in the recent past. And with the investigations on them seemingly slowing down, with the lack of a specific investigation squad, I think that will just slowly continue.

200 members were cited for the Genovese family in the 2007 Danny Leo case. Nearly 200 was the figure quoted more recently in the 2014 WSJ article.

200 members was cited for the Gambinos in the 2010 Danny Marino case.

Approximately 100 members was cited for the Luccheses in 2009, 2011, and 2014 articles.

Approximately 100 members was cited for the Colombos in 2009 and 2014 articles.

115 members was cited for the Bonannos in a 2009 article and 100 members in a 2013 article.

Where there had once been 350 FBI agents, as well as about 100 NYPD detectives, investigating the NY Mafia in the 1980's and 1990's, by 2005 the number was down to approximately 150 agents.

In 2009, it was reported the FBI had downsized the manpower in the local squads investigating the LCN in New York with the Lucchese, Colombo, and Bonanno squads each having under 10 agents, the Gambino squad having 12 agents, and the Genovese squad having 12 agents and some NYPD detectives.

In 2011, with 45 agents investigating the LCN in New York, the FBI had streamlined it's 5 LCN squads in New York to 3: combining the Colombo and Bonanno squads together, the Gambino and Lucchese squads together, and leaving a third squad for the Genovese.

In 2013, it was reported the FBI had further reduced it's manpower investigating the LCN in New York, now only having 2 squads: the C-5 squad investigating the Genovese, Colombo, and Bonannos and the C-16 squad investigating the Gambinos and Luccheses; with a combined total of 25-35 agents.

So you're basically looking at the feds devoting about 10% of the manpower to the mob that they did in the 1980's and 1990's. I'll be the first to say they don't need those past levels to keep the mob in check today but even former FBI and other law enforcement guys have voiced their concerns about the numbers becoming too small. One also thought that, even if you reduce the number, you should still keep the squads separate - one for each family.

So the bonanno are the third ? I ever thinked was the Lucchese.

I think the Lucchese, Colombo, and Bonanno families are roughly equal in size, each with around 100 members or slightly over. The 2004 NJ OC report had the Colombos at 112 members. The non-rounded figure suggests to me that was a specific count and not just an estimate. Wiretaps in the 2006 Vinny Basciano case showed the family had less than 100 soldiers. It would probably be a little over 100 if you counted the captains and administration.

The Luccheses seem to be considered the third family in terms of strength at this time. But, in my opinion, it's a big drop off from the two larger, more powerful families and the three smaller ones. I've noticed people on these forums refer to the Luccheses in the same sentence with the Genovese and Gambinos as if it is closer to them than it is to the Colombos and Bonannos. I don't think that's the case at all.

The rebuilding of the wtc towers and resulting subway station re constructions has been the gift of all gifts . Possibly the biggest gift ever

The new Fulton street station was originally supposed to cost $2B but was just completed for a cost of $4B- historic cost over runs . The WTC itself was budgeted at $16B I believe

Right now the rebuilding of the Harrison NJ path station is budgeted for $257M and it will be very interesting to see the cost over runs for this project . Harrison is a long term corrupt town and is littered with trucking , hauling companies and large warehouses .

Hey, at least the Fulton station is really nice now!

I work in the city in Midtown Manhattan so I see it everyday, in general there is just a HUGE building boom everywhere I look. The South Bronx is even starting to be redeveloped!! I'm sure the Westside , Gambinos, and even Luchesse have their hooks in all this building going on, u can bet your life on it....

A particular family has a relationship with a hotel developer in Manhatten

Having a GC for such projects can be lucrative for a host of SCs

As many wires are on the street ain't no telling how many agents are even needed

Care to expound?

DB,

Im aware of the same relationship, please don't say anything on here because there's also a few working stiffs involved that I wouldn't want to see lose their jobs. It's not that well known yet, so why say it in here and have some innocent laborers lose their jobs just so some jerk off Mormon in Utah can get his hard on over the mob....

I think you know way more than me lol

This is a legit well known firm

Jerking off is against the law in Utah actually

Well somebody woke up all full of piss and vinegar.

I got news for you, pal. If you believe anyone is losing their job over stuff posted on a message board, you're even dumber than you sound.

The families are better off today. The NYPD organized crime squads have been disbanded, the reason given is budget cuts, but I believe they couldn't think of anymore titles and ranks in the department personally. The FBI is down to two squads overseeing the five families, one Bonanno/Colombo/Gambino and the other one Genovese/Lucchese. Bonanno and Colombo are the weakest of New York families, but they have been gaining strength and power over the last few years. Indeed there are more informants today in the family compared to the past but most of the time they are not going to share everything and detail about the crime families.

The C-5 squad investigates the Genovese, Colombo, and Bonannos.

The C-16 squad investigates the Gambinos and Luccheses.

No, but law enforcement checks in on these forums. Try having a beer once, just once! I promise you it's better than sitting in your basement all day in whatever Mormon hellhole town you reside in all day , researching the mafia...you not act like such a hard on after just one beer, I'm thinking

Was that directed at somebody in here? That's very disrespectful.

Also Ivy, on another off topic thread- the amount of babies your cult, I'm sorry religion shames mothers out of wedlock to just throw away to adoption makes me personally sick coming from my culture of Jersey Italian-American Catholics- at least we own up to our mistakes, keep our families together and believe in forgiveness and redemption...your cult just shames these poor young mothers into giving away their babies and "hiding it" like it never happened

DB: Can you please just verify that it isn't Thor Equities? That's all I am asking.

I think the Bonannos were probably in better shape in 2000 than right now. They are probably rebuilding. But the other four families might be in better shape today than 15 years ago. It's not a stretch.

Careful now. We don't want to get any mobsters in trouble.

Why is it necessary to attack people in such a personal manner? This is a thread about the current status of the NY mob, not Mormonism. I'm not a Mormon, but I think most of us can agree that Ivy is a phenomenal researcher and truly a valuable asset to this forum. He knows his stuff. What is so threatening about that?

Because I have friends and colleagues who have gone through the adoption process and have heard what the Mormon cult, I mean religion did to some of these out of wedlock mothers- some who were only 12 years old! If you heard the stories I heard from friends/colleagues who have gone through adoption process you would have the same opinion...

Sorry for standing up for pregnant teenage moms who get emotionally and verbally abused in that cult, my apologies....

Anyways I'm done, I apologize to the board and am sorry for taking this conversation off topic. I'm done with my rant, I literally just two weeks ago had a work colleague of mine come back from flying out to Utah for the adoption process and I've been sick to my stomach after he flew back and told me what he saw/heard there, I'm done!

I have a particular disdain for Thor Equities, as do a great many people in Queens and Brooklyn. Bloomberg called the owner, Joe Sitt, and "extortionist" over the Coney Island deal.

Considering Sitt is from Bensonhurst, I am wondering about a possible mob link....

A Catholic(or any other cult) talking down to a Mormon is rich. Ill say it again:

Take the log out of your eye before to try you remove the splinter from someone else's.

In other words, research your own cults true history and try to fix it before you call someone else out on the problems with their cult.

No one in this world in innocent.

No not Thor

I had no intention of this turning into some riddle, apologies . It's legit construction work so I wouldn't worry about missing some big inside scoop or something as your not . my posts really don't deserve any attention

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormons#Groups_within_Mormonism

There are so many different types of Mormonism, from very strict and bigamous to very moderate, like with every type of religion there are a lot a differences. That's the only thing I'm gonna say about it because the thread is kinda derailing..

OK, just one more thing, those Mormon missionaries over here in Holland are the sweetest people, I had a couple of conversations with them. One in Amsterdam maybe 10 years ago and one over here in the south half a year ago, very friendly and polite, although a bit unworldly. Funny thing is that they call themselves Elders, when a lot of them aren't even 20 years old LOL

Maybe you should get your facts straight before going on a rant. The LDS church is no more responsible for the actual cultish break offs from us (think scumbags like Warren Jeffs) than the Catholic church is for what some Protestant churches do.

Anyway, you've wasted enough of this thread with your BS. Back to the mob...

I thought everyone was joking when they say Ivy is a mormon brilliant.

It's pretty common knowledge on the forums at this point. It's what I get for being honest about my background - something many on these forums haven't been. Not that it has to do with anything. But there's always been certain people who bring it up and try to use it as an insult because they're butt hurt about something and have no other card to play.

At least you finally admitted you're in the cult I long suspected that you belonged to....

For what it's worth , anyone I ever met that was from Utah was Mormon so I always just figured Utah=Mormon, coming from a melting pot like NYC Metropolitan area I couldn't even fathom having everyone being the same around me, this isn't an insult to u Ivy. What's that like? Seriously, to have everyone the same, I will admit u guys have a ton of good looking blondes LOL

The "cult" accusation gets thrown at us a lot. It's what people have heard and they simply regurgitate it. Try looking up the definition of a cult sometime. It doesn't apply to the LDS Church. Though it certainly does apply to some apostate groups that broke off a LONG time ago. Groups like the one led by Warren Jeffs, who is currently in prison. Some of those groups are also in Utah but also in other places. You would also do well to remember that the term "cult" could technically be applied to Christ and His followers during His 3 year mortal ministry.

All that said, even if I was the Grand Poobah of whatever cult to you want to name, what does that have to do with the mob?

Absolutely nothing, I am seriously curious as to what it's like to live in Utah with everyone being the same cookie cutter? I'm curious coming from where I come from with 100+ languages spoken and people from every single country on the globe (NYC Metro area) Ivy this is my olive branch and also my curiosity more than anything...

I'm not sure it's as cookie cutter as you may think, though compared to NYC it is. People may look at Utah as bland and boring. My response is always, "Yeah, the low cost of living, relatively low crime rate, lack of constant air pollution and traffic jams, and general absence of liberal politics really sucks."

I will never understand the hate thrown on Ivy on these forums. The guy is an encyclopedia when it comes to LCN and chooses to base it on facts that he reads, researches and vets out. He doesn't know LCN members nor does he claim to. He always backs up his position with facts and has a standard to what he believes is the truth or not. I actually don't always agree with what he says because I do believe there is a street element out there that isn't always corroborated and has to be taken into account if it seems legit but why the hate? Ivy is by far one of the more respectful, classy and knowledgable posters even if he is stubborn.

Well thank you.

Though, as I've said many times, I actually don't discount the street element you're referring to. I just prioritize sources and what you're taking about doesn't hold the most credibility with me. But that doesn't mean I ignore it. There are posters who I'm often fine with taking what they say at face value as long as it doesn't contradict other sources I consider more credible and consistent. And, as I recently said in a similar discussion on another board, that's usually put me on the right side of things in the nearly 10 years I've been on these forums.

Sorry if I sound like a broken record but I seem to have to point this stuff out every few months or so.

You are probably right, but according to former FBI agent Joachim Garcia, the Bureau must take resources away from mafia surveillance to pay more attention to things like terrorism. And right now, terrorism is a big concern. Has anyone seen all of the US Soldiers posted in Penn Station lately?

So this gives the mafia a chance to lay low, get out of the media limelight, build networks, make some money, and time to commit enough crimes to be busted in the next massive sweep.

The FBI will revisit them. Just give them some time.

FBI here in Jersey/NYC is mainly focusing on terrorism, government corruption, and white collar crimes. You will have the county prosecutors office busting up gambling rings from time to time still, I feel like personally it's to grab headlines and make themselves feel important...

I could never live away from the beach and around that many blonde haired, blue eyed people....

Gang violence and Mexican cartel has surpassed LCN as an FBI NY/NJ priority .

Gangs have become a prime focus for FBI in the last few years - as it should be . Cyber and foreign trade theft are sapping resources too that are newer issues

No bodies and guys are probably earning and happy compared to years back

Mmm I'm not sure. From what I've read in recent years, Transnational Organized Crime as a whole has become a higher OC priority than LCN. But not one single group is a bigger priority than the LCN within the NY metro area. Even the Mexican cartels, though that could be due to them being more a DEA target than the FBI. It was only a few years ago that the FBI was saying the LCN was still their top OC priority in the New England region so it would likely not be any less in New York/New Jersey. The only places where I've seen it reported other groups have become one bigger priority in recent years were Eurasian and Asian groups in Las Vegas and Eurasian (specifically Russian) in Miami. Both were reported in 2011. Gangs have become a higher priority. We saw that when the Justice Department when it combined it's Organized Crime and Gang sections in 2010.

Honestly I don't know , just going by what I was told

Outside terrorism - Gang violence , heroin trafficking and cyber crime have loads of people working on it today

Gaining strength? The Genovese, Gambino & Lucchese families for sure. it seems they're in the best shape they've been since the mid late 90's. Yes LE have backed off significantly but it's no wonder them 3 families are thriving at the minute, they have very capable leaders, from the capo's to the admin, you can't say the same about the Colombo & Bonanno families, they're a mess.

@ IVY L.

Bit of unwarranted religious hatred thrown your way , can't be anything you've written in this thread.

Anyhow, so approx. 30/ 50 FBI or police are investigating NYC LCN. How many ' cases' /indictments are made in a year say 2014 ? Are majority historic/ past crimes like Asaro ?

Thnx

Quit being a fucking dick. Don't try to hide the fact you are being a dick with "your curiosity bullshit". Your being a dick and since your being called out for it your trying to save face, so why don't you just stop.

Last I read it was a max of 35 agents between the 2 squads. The Luccheses had 5 agents investigating them in 2014.

I don't think one necessarily gets a good picture of things looking at a single year as indictments are cyclical and you have lulls at times. It's why I've kept a list of every case I can find since 2000. Being able to look at cases over a 10 or 15 year sample helps one get a better idea of general trends and helps you remember things those who just recall the last headline dont.

No, the majority aren't past crimes though those distant charges are often found in mob indictments. An essential element of building a RICO case is showing an ongoing pattern of crime over an extended period of time. Often the government is able to include crimes that go back years and add those to present day crimes, which serves to show a continuing criminal enterprise.

steadily putting things together all 6 families

So all the families have been making new members then?

Yes, on a fairly regular basis. They have to in order to replace guys who die, which also happens fairly regularly. For example, in terms of just what we know, the Colombos had ceremonies in 2000, 2004, 2007, 2009, and 2011. I'm sure there were others during that time and since then.

Don't know about the strength..but things should get interesting within the next 2-3 years. A lot of older and tougher guys coming out..maybe they'll call it quits, maybe looking for their piece or retribution..

With no bodies and in the middle of a NYC construction boom , guys will probably be happy . Construction in ny is just too big to control , especially when ur quasi legit with numerous businesses . Good times

sure