I had a Dutch roommate in college who told me that there are so called kamper gangs in the Netherlands that engage in all sorts of crime . He said they're basically the Dutch version of trailer park people as they live in mobile home parks and such .
And as far as the comparison with the trailer trash is concerned, it only applies to the criminal tendencies, because the mobile homes that these people live in over here are more like mansions on wheels..
I live near the Dutch border. I know quite some people from a "Kamper" background. Some of them moved from their trailer parks in the Netherlands to Belgian border towns, where they bought up cafes and other small businesses. A few also work out at my gym. To say they're all criminals, is not true. But I dare say that all of them at least have family that's involved in organized crime; ranging from the manufacturing, importation and distribution of drugs (a lot of marijuana grow houses for instance have some involvement by them), gunrunning, stolen car trafficking, illegal gambling, owning brothels (which they rent out to foreign pimps)...
Anyways, they're an entirely different breed from the Eastern European Roma gypsies. They're 100% ethnically Dutch, although a certain amount of them can also trace their roots to the Alsace and Eifel regions. There are some that live in mansion-like mobile homes, but that isn't the standard for all of them. And generally they highly dislike the Romani gypsies from Romania, Bulgaria...
I don't know what the behavior of the American trailer trash is like, but the Dutch ones won't really bother you unless you come at them. Some time ago I talked with a few of them at a heavy metal show (Crowbar) in Tilburg and they were quite amicable.
Are there any well known Kamper gangs ? Or do they commit crime on an individual or loosely organized basis ?
Anyways thanks for the answers everyone .
The most powerful and wealthy kamper ever was Johan Verhoek aka De Hakkelaar (The Stammerer/Stutterer), he took over a lot of the organization of Klaas Bruinsma..
Verhoek was angered by Bruinsma because he made fun of his trailer background. Bruinsma was a scion of a wealthy soda manufacturer and Verhoek considered him an arrogant snob allegedly..
They are into everything, but mostly drugs. Some notorious figures are Johan Verhoek, Piet Schneider, Koos Reuvers, Bertus Kwarten, Kobus Lörse, Peter van Dijk, Albert Kraus and Janus van Wesenbeeck.
The main suspects in the large-scale drug raids yesterday, more than 50 people were arrested, are the Brabant drug lord Janus van Wesenbeeck and Ton van Dalen. Van Dalen from Rotterdam is considered the Ecstasy godfather of the Netherlands. Janus nicknamed Harry Potter is missing and is likely in hiding in Paraguay.
Two kampers from Eindhoven flew a helicopter with 43 kilos of cocaine and 60 kilos of heroin to Britain. Wartenbergh and Vorstenbosch were sentenced to 18 years in prison each, while the Brit Joseph Peel was sentenced to 16 years.
They are into everything, but mostly drugs. Some notorious figures are Johan Verhoek, Piet Schneider, Koos Reuvers, Bertus Kwarten, Kobus Lörse, Peter van Dijk, Albert Kraus and Janus van Wesenbeeck.
Came across that old Peter R. de Vries episode in which Albert Kraus thought he hired Rob Zegerius to kill his brother Leonard and the Reuver brothers. Little did he know that this rat, Zegerius, told Peter R. and they taped the whole thing.
Was very funny to see the reaction of his wife, who already delivered a Scorpion to Zegerius to do the hit with, when Peter stepped out of the van and confronted her about the conspiracy. That woman was pretty crazy, she had her little daughter with her the whole time while they were discussing the triple homicide. Albert and his wife are pure scum, plain and simple..
One of the best episodes of his show Billy. Albert is the uncle of the kickboxer Albert Kraus, it's very rare someone infiltrated the kamper milieu, but that Jew Zegerius was a convincing guy. He tried to kill himself last year while serving a 16 year sentence for a range of offenses, including extortion, threats, defrauding insurance companies, involvement in detonating a hand grenade, forgery, money laundering, involvement in several arsons and receiving a stolen painting by Karel Appel.
Rob Zegerius' wife's suicide in her holding cell was successful though in 2012. She apparently was an artist and a journalist and came from a very affluent family. Her parents blamed Zegerius for her death because he involved her in his crimes. The poor people even got robbed by some thugs sent by this scumbag Zegerius. He seems to be very depressed in jail at the moment, hence the suicide attempt. You will reap what you sow, my grandmother always told me..
Kampers are also the only people who still speak bargoens.
Bargoens is a form of Dutch slang, more specifically, it is a cant language that arose in the 17th century, and was used by criminals, tramps and travelling salesmen as a secret code, like Spain's Germanía or French Argot. However, the word Bargoens usually refers to the thieves' cant spoken in the latter half of the 19th century and the first half of the 20th century. The actual slang varied a lot from place to place; often Bargoens denotes the variety from the Holland region in the Netherlands. While many words from Bargoens have faded into obscurity, others have become part of standard Dutch (but are more often used in the "Hollandic" than in other Dutch dialects). Examples of words now common in Dutch: hufter (bastard), gappen (to steal) and poen (money). As is the case for most thieves' languages, many of the words from Bargoens are either insults or concern money, crime or sex. Due to the historically large number of Jews in Amsterdam and the large presence they held as fences and smugglers, Bargoens has many Yiddish loanwords. Examples are sjacheren (to barter), mesjogge (crazy), jatten (hands, to steal), gabber (buddy, friend), "tof" (great). The name of this cant is close to baragouin, which means "jargon" in French. It is supposed to have been derived either from the Breton words bara+gwin (bread+wine) or from Bourgondisch ('Burgundish', i.e. [the language] from Burgundy).
Are there any well known Kamper gangs ? Or do they commit crime on an individual or loosely organized basis ?
Anyways thanks for the answers everyone .
There are loosely connected crime families in all major cities, most well known network is the so-called Octopus syndicate.
How are these crime families structured ? Also didn't this so called Octopus syndicate get caught up in a Vatican related scandal ?
Yeah I read that, but sounds like bullshit. Octopus was a name that the media gave to a network of drug traffickers, who made hundreds of millions in the 90s with the trade in hashish. There is a story they let tons of drugs sink in the ocean near the coast of Portugal to get it back up later with divers. One of their pipelines was to Montreal where they dealt with the west end gang. About the structure it is based around blood relatives and often they live at the same trailerparks.
In the night of Tuesday to Wednesday one of the oldest dutch drug lords, namely Mr. Piet Schneider of Voorburg, was picked up by the police and arrested on suspicion of money laundering. He was reportedly staying in Arab countries in recent years, but was also very regular in Amsterdam and The Hague.
I wonder if any of these Kamper groups have anything to do with the ongoing Mocro Mafia war . I assume not much if anything , what with few Dutch names popping up in news reports ( at least English language ones ) , however such groups obviously do business with their Moroccan counterparts so they must be feeling the effect of this war .
I suppose it could also be claimed that Kamper ( and other Netherlands based ) groups stand to gain a bigger share of the drugs market as long as they keep their heads down , but I digress .
I wonder if any of these Kamper groups have anything to do with the ongoing Mocro Mafia war . I assume not much if anything , what with few Dutch names popping up in news reports ( at least English language ones ) , however such groups obviously do business with their Moroccan counterparts so they must be feeling the effect of this war .
I suppose it could also be claimed that Kamper ( and other Netherlands based ) groups stand to gain a bigger share of the drugs market as long as they keep their heads down , but I digress .
The biggest arms dealer of the Netherlands, the kamper Jan B. from the village of Hulten in the province of Brabant, was sentenced to 6 years in prison for, among a slew of other offences, arming the different factions in the Mocro Mafia war.. The officier van justitie (dutch term for district attorney) wants to appeal the, in their eyes, way too low sentence..
A senior member of a notorious traveller family from Brabant Toon Pruymboom (68) was found dead next to his car some days ago. They still haven't said how he died.
Recently a member of another notorious family Henk Baum was shot dead in his Porsche Cayenne.
Things seem to be really heating up in the Netherlands ...
They are our version of traditional organized crime. Over the past forty years, traveller crime bosses have largely controlled the world of drugs. Initially hashish and weed, later also xtc and cocaine.
Is Johannes Altepost a kamper by the way ? I know he is ( or at least was ) a big time arms trafficker who sold guns to the Kinahans , which is why I'm curious about his background .
Is Johannes Altepost a kamper by the way ? I know he is ( or at least was ) a big time arms trafficker who sold guns to the Kinahans , which is why I'm curious about his background .
I think so, the name has a German origin. Many travellers have German sounding names.
Is "Dikke Peter" a traveller as well? I always assumed he was just a local Limburg guy who made it big in the underworld. Nevertheless, the guy really isn't one to be crossed.
Even though "kampers" play a very prominent role, traditional OC in the Netherlands isn't really limited to them. There's lots of Dutch from the settled community involved in organized crime as well. I'd wager to say that next to the UK (England and Scotland) and Ireland, the Netherlands is one of the rare northwestern European countries that breeds a ton of indigenous outfits that are involved in the underworld on a large international scale.
There's lots of Dutch from the settled community involved in organized crime as well. I'd wager to say that next to the UK (England and Scotland) and Ireland, the Netherlands is one of the rare northwestern European countries that breeds a ton of indigenous outfits that are involved in the underworld on a large international scale.
True and historically there was always a fair amount of Dutch Jews involved in organized crime.
Is "Dikke Peter" a traveller as well? I always assumed he was just a local Limburg guy who made it big in the underworld. Nevertheless, the guy really isn't one to be crossed.
Even though "kampers" play a very prominent role, traditional OC in the Netherlands isn't really limited to them. There's lots of Dutch from the settled community involved in organized crime as well. I'd wager to say that next to the UK (England and Scotland) and Ireland, the Netherlands is one of the rare northwestern European countries that breeds a ton of indigenous outfits that are involved in the underworld on a large international scale.
I wonder why that is so . After all one can point to the ( still lasting ) marginalization of certain segments of the British Isle's indigenous lower/working class as a main factor for the existence of so many indigenous British organized crime groups , however I'm not aware of a similar phenomenon with respect to the settled Dutch lower/working class .
If anything the Netherlands was always ( and I imagine still is ) a more tolerant/less socially stratified society than the UK , which makes the large amount of settled Dutch gangsters seem a bit puzzling to me .
I suppose one can bring up the fact of the Netherlands being an important smuggling center though ...
Yes Dutch organized crime (penoze) originated in working class neighbourhoods like the Jordaan in Amsterdam, Crooswijk in Rotterdam or Schilderswijk in The Hague. But also on the country side in the south, who are more rural.
Now many are settled, but in the nineteenth century the so-called 'travelers' or 'wanderers' still move from hotel to guest house or from barn to haystack. It is not until the middle of the century that caravans arrive so that the family and the furniture can go along. There have always been people roaming the country.
Is "Dikke Peter" a traveller as well? I always assumed he was just a local Limburg guy who made it big in the underworld. Nevertheless, the guy really isn't one to be crossed.
Even though "kampers" play a very prominent role, traditional OC in the Netherlands isn't really limited to them. There's lots of Dutch from the settled community involved in organized crime as well. I'd wager to say that next to the UK (England and Scotland) and Ireland, the Netherlands is one of the rare northwestern European countries that breeds a ton of indigenous outfits that are involved in the underworld on a large international scale.
I wonder why that is so . After all one can point to the ( still lasting ) marginalization of certain segments of the British Isle's indigenous lower/working class as a main factor for the existence of so many indigenous British organized crime groups , however I'm not aware of a similar phenomenon with respect to the settled Dutch lower/working class .
If anything the Netherlands was always ( and I imagine still is ) a more tolerant/less socially stratified society than the UK , why makes the large amount of settled Dutch gangsters seem a bit puzzling to me .
I suppose one can bring up the fact of the Netherlands being an important smuggling center though ...
While there's definitely not the abrasive "us vs. them" mentality going on with the indigenous Dutch working class community as there is with the British, I feel there are also quite a bit of parallels between the British and the Dutch in this regard. There definitely is noticeable poverty and a lot of the "pastime activities" are remarkably similar (both love a bit of football hooliganism for instance). Also historically, as with the British, the Dutch always loved to trade. Another thing is that a more "organized" form of crime already existed in these countries way back; the Dutch "penoze" tradition goes back a couple of hundred years and reasonably organized gangs were formed in the British Isles as soon as large town settlements were being built. This is something most other Western European countries never really had. Though I'm not sure how much I can count "tradition" as a factor, because for instance Germany used to have the "ringvereine" yet over there indigenous OC (if you don't count the occasional German biker) has been dead ever since.
The old penoze is almost dead in the cities, but many sons still follow in the father's footsteps. Like the sons of Henk Ebben, Cornelis Steenbergen, Piet Schneider, Greg Remmers, Henk Rommy etc..
There definitely is noticeable poverty and a lot of the "pastime activities" are remarkably similar (both love a bit of football hooliganism for instance). Also historically, as with the British, the Dutch always loved to trade.
I agree the British and Dutch are also seafaring people.
Is "Dikke Peter" a traveller as well? I always assumed he was just a local Limburg guy who made it big in the underworld. Nevertheless, the guy really isn't one to be crossed.
Even though "kampers" play a very prominent role, traditional OC in the Netherlands isn't really limited to them. There's lots of Dutch from the settled community involved in organized crime as well. I'd wager to say that next to the UK (England and Scotland) and Ireland, the Netherlands is one of the rare northwestern European countries that breeds a ton of indigenous outfits that are involved in the underworld on a large international scale.
I wonder why that is so . After all one can point to the ( still lasting ) marginalization of certain segments of the British Isle's indigenous lower/working class as a main factor for the existence of so many indigenous British organized crime groups , however I'm not aware of a similar phenomenon with respect to the settled Dutch lower/working class .
If anything the Netherlands was always ( and I imagine still is ) a more tolerant/less socially stratified society than the UK , why makes the large amount of settled Dutch gangsters seem a bit puzzling to me .
I suppose one can bring up the fact of the Netherlands being an important smuggling center though ...
While there's definitely not the abrasive "us vs. them" mentality going on with the indigenous Dutch working class community as there is with the British, I feel there are also quite a bit of parallels between the British and the Dutch in this regard. There definitely is noticeable poverty and a lot of the "pastime activities" are remarkably similar (both love a bit of football hooliganism for instance). Also historically, as with the British, the Dutch always loved to trade. Another thing is that a more "organized" form of crime already existed in these countries way back; the Dutch "penoze" tradition goes back a couple of hundred years and reasonably organized gangs were formed in the British Isles as soon as large town settlements were being built. This is something most other Western European countries never really had. Though I'm not sure how much I can count "tradition" as a factor, because for instance Germany used to have the "ringvereine" yet over there indigenous OC (if you don't count the occasional German biker) has been dead ever since.
Originally Posted by TheKillingJoke
Originally Posted by 2a
Originally Posted by TheKillingJoke
Is "Dikke Peter" a traveller as well? I always assumed he was just a local Limburg guy who made it big in the underworld. Nevertheless, the guy really isn't one to be crossed.
Even though "kampers" play a very prominent role, traditional OC in the Netherlands isn't really limited to them. There's lots of Dutch from the settled community involved in organized crime as well. I'd wager to say that next to the UK (England and Scotland) and Ireland, the Netherlands is one of the rare northwestern European countries that breeds a ton of indigenous outfits that are involved in the underworld on a large international scale.
I wonder why that is so . After all one can point to the ( still lasting ) marginalization of certain segments of the British Isle's indigenous lower/working class as a main factor for the existence of so many indigenous British organized crime groups , however I'm not aware of a similar phenomenon with respect to the settled Dutch lower/working class .
If anything the Netherlands was always ( and I imagine still is ) a more tolerant/less socially stratified society than the UK , why makes the large amount of settled Dutch gangsters seem a bit puzzling to me .
I suppose one can bring up the fact of the Netherlands being an important smuggling center though ...
While there's definitely not the abrasive "us vs. them" mentality going on with the indigenous Dutch working class community as there is with the British, I feel there are also quite a bit of parallels between the British and the Dutch in this regard. There definitely is noticeable poverty and a lot of the "pastime activities" are remarkably similar (both love a bit of football hooliganism for instance). Also historically, as with the British, the Dutch always loved to trade. Another thing is that a more "organized" form of crime already existed in these countries way back; the Dutch "penoze" tradition goes back a couple of hundred years and reasonably organized gangs were formed in the British Isles as soon as large town settlements were being built. This is something most other Western European countries never really had. Though I'm not sure how much I can count "tradition" as a factor, because for instance Germany used to have the "ringvereine" yet over there indigenous OC (if you don't count the occasional German biker) has been dead ever since.
Yes the factor of having a merchant tradition should not be overlooked . Would you say the Netherlands has a higher percentage of indigenous residents living in poor marginalized neighborhoods than Germany by the way ?
Traditionally yes, but as of recent years the poverty rate of Germany has increased to the point that it has eclipsed the Netherlands'. I think the poverty rate in Germany is about 15% nowadays, which is more than the one of for instance Albania.
In Germany it seems to be that a lot of people from a foreign background are living below the poverty line, even though honestly I don't know how accurate this is. For instance you got extended Lebanese families with thousands of members of which the majority are reportedly living in extreme poverty (and many of them admittedly do live in small bedroom-sized apartments somewhere in a Berlin or NRW working class neighborhood) while actually those dudes have a truckload of money.
It's the same with the Netherlands. Any "kamper" is registered as "poor", despite the fact that some of them are able to wipe clean their ass with €500 banknotes if they want to. You got Moroccan or Curaçaoan guys living in council flats despite the fact that they are actually filthy rich.
Traditionally yes, but as of recent years the poverty rate of Germany has increased to the point that it has eclipsed the Netherlands'. I think the poverty rate in Germany is about 15% nowadays, which is more than the one of for instance Albania.
In Germany it seems to be that a lot of people from a foreign background are living below the poverty line, even though honestly I don't know how accurate this is. For instance you got extended Lebanese families with thousands of members of which the majority are reportedly living in extreme poverty (and many of them admittedly do live in small bedroom-sized apartments somewhere in a Berlin or NRW working class neighborhood) while actually those dudes have a truckload of money.
It's the same with the Netherlands. Any "kamper" is registered as "poor", despite the fact that some of them are able to wipe clean their ass with €500 banknotes if they want to. You got Moroccan or Curaçaoan guys living in council flats despite the fact that they are actually filthy rich.
It's all hard to tell sometimes.
Yup that often seems to be the case the world over , especially when it comes to criminals ...
I hope I'm not tiring you with all these questions , but are there any good English language books about the Dutch underworld that you'd recommend ? There seems to be a dearth of said material , which is why I'm asking .
Traditionally yes, but as of recent years the poverty rate of Germany has increased to the point that it has eclipsed the Netherlands'. I think the poverty rate in Germany is about 15% nowadays, which is more than the one of for instance Albania.
In Germany it seems to be that a lot of people from a foreign background are living below the poverty line, even though honestly I don't know how accurate this is. For instance you got extended Lebanese families with thousands of members of which the majority are reportedly living in extreme poverty (and many of them admittedly do live in small bedroom-sized apartments somewhere in a Berlin or NRW working class neighborhood) while actually those dudes have a truckload of money.
It's the same with the Netherlands. Any "kamper" is registered as "poor", despite the fact that some of them are able to wipe clean their ass with €500 banknotes if they want to. You got Moroccan or Curaçaoan guys living in council flats despite the fact that they are actually filthy rich.
It's all hard to tell sometimes.
Yup that often seems to be the case the world over , especially when it comes to criminals ...
I hope I'm not tiring you with all these questions , but are there any good English language books about the Dutch underworld that you'd recommend ? There seems to be a dearth of said material , which is why I'm asking .
Anyways thanks again for all the information .
No problem! I live in a Dutch border region so I've seen all types of stuff happening haha.
I don't really know about any English language books about the Dutch underworld tbh. There's a few works in Dutch, though it's mostly based upon the "big name" underworld figures.
