Young Guys and Recruitement

I've been thinking recently, where are recruits even coming from nowadays?

It sounds like South Philly still has a lot of young Italian men.

But what about New York? Honestly, how many Italian neighborhoods in the five boroughs, where young Italian men live, exist anymore? Are they pulling kids from the suburbs?

Take Ace Ailleo for example. Relatively young made guy. But he grew up and ran rackets in Middle Village, for example. Do guys like him even exist in these neighborhoods anymore?

I know too many suburban/assimilated Italians to think those kind of people have any shot at running a crime family in an intimidating fashion... But Connecticut might be more assimilated than other areas like New Jersey or Westchester.

The Providence family is dying. Does Federal Hill have any Italian kids? Does Detroit, or Chicago?

The Sopranos does a good example of the newer generation thats being recruited. The typical newcomers are lower-middle-class, punk kids from subarbs, probably go to a university along the line of Seton Hall etc. Very likely that they got connected to the mob through selling weed or prescription drugs, not any type of sophisticated crime or anything.

Maybe, but even the Sopranos is almost 15 years old now. Times have changed from even then.

Seton Hall late 1990s had a ton of future gangsters! It's funny

Kids already with money make bad recruits.

Poor ethnic kids are much better. Especially those who hate the police. If you get them very young and can get them to actually believe your a father figure to them.

Remember the movie departed that is how Costello recruited kids. I found that to be real true to life even today.

There just arent many hardcore italian hoods left to where you have guys hanging in front of active social clubs influencing young kids.
The decline of the italian stronghold is the main reason lcn is where it is today.
LE played a big part but an upper middle class italian kid who's first name is Jake because his father is a fuckin hipster will have a hard time doing a 5 year bid.
Lets leave it at that.

Spot-on. It will never be like it was in this country, when dirt poor Italians were coming here in droves.

there is guys being recruited still young guys coming through the ranks quality not there guys joining now have seen too many movies or there family relation has influenced them

but the quality is not there anymore the only guys who have any real quality are the ones whos family relation has taught them the rules billy russo allie shades kid joey perna

though i am surprised how many "acting" capos there are in there 30s and 40s i thought all the administrations (excluding cali (even he is what 48 49 not young and billy russo) were old and were struggling to find young guys to replace that did surprise me same with the decavs in this latest indictment a alot of young guys but then again it showed the quality difference mid level cocaine deals ........

I was asking about this same point from Ivy some time ago, and apparently the research does show, that the membership of NY families has stayed fairly stable for the last 20 years. So the answer is, they do find enough new recruits for replacement.

completely agree even if the younger guys quality wise are worse there is still young guys joining esp in new york

Try making that statement in twenty or thirty years. By which time virtually every "Italian American" will be fifth, sixth and seventh generation, born and raised in the suburbs to upper middle class parents.

You have to grow up dirt poor in a tough neighborhood to become a true gangster. There have certainly been a few exceptions over the years. But they're few and far between.

i could see the mob collapsing when the young guys of today and future run things they wont be match for the feds and slowly fall apart but that i always though would be 50 60 years




do you think the mafia will be gone in 30 years? i thought 15 years ago that there would be little left by this stage but not much has changed so i am interested what do you think will be here in 30 years? will the five familys still have its same large membership? will there just be less guys or will there just be no mafia

There will be organized crime in this world for as long as criminal minded people exist. Which means forever. But in two or three generations, the Italian American Mafia will be replaced by, or at least partnered with, the poorer and hungrier ethnic groups.

That is essentially what I was trying to get at.

PB, do you think the decline in murders is more than just a moratorium? Could it have to do with better upbringing for the younger guys?

At that point, who could those groups be I wonder? I mean were running out of new ethnic groups lol. Is it possible OC won't even be based on ethnicity anymore? Just like minded criminals working together?

Immigration will pick up as long as the economy continues to improve.

Are Mexican gangs the future of American OC?

pizza you know alot about these guys so i have a question do you think allie shades kid could end up running the genovese family because he is in his 40s and alot of the top guys are old so you would think with who is father is he could rise to the top

like billy russo and the colombos one of the most powerful guys in the family his father helped him get there with his influence defo but then again the colombos are alot smaller than the genovese family

What im wondering is how its gonna play out with the more docile mob there has been for the past 20 years.

Obviously they cant get away with killing left and right like they could before and its smart staying under the radar and keeping violence to a minimum. But rackets like extortion and such are based on the threat of violence. For that to work u need to show that you have the capacity for violence. So im wondering if a mafia that is not feared can even do buisness like they are used to or if they have to change tactics and do crimes that dont warrant any violence like white collar stuff. What are your thoughts?

Is there not quite a few zips in some of the familes?

i think the fear of violence is enough like nicky scarfo junior for example he took over that company and took 12mil he did not even have to threaten the guys him and perullo they got scared and let him have the company without any argument

alot of guys esp legit guys are scared of the mob and can you blame them i would be if one of these guys trys to shake me down even recent indictments alot of indictments in places like New England shaking down strip clubs even crimanls who kick up the fear of the mob what it represents at the moment anyway is enough

i think overall the fear of the organization is enough and i think beatings still happen regular



gambinos but i dont know if there is enough long term but there is i believe alot higher than most people think

but that is prob why they are number two family in new york

Fair point. Im just wondering how long that will last

with legit guys prob forever a guy threatens to kill you most legit guys will roll over mob or no mob i mean i have seen alot weaker groups than the mob shake down business alot of guys dont want trouble.

other crimanls prob wont be able to


thats my opinion anyway i could be wrong

well i appreciate your opinion

You want to end up being that guy that gets killed, though?

yearh thats what i am thinking any mob guy thretans me the chance is i will give in with little argument most legit guys are the same



while we are on this topic i found something interesting i was watching this documenatary on the mob they had this english guy doing the interviews they had scars and previte anyway they interviewed a guy who was supposedly connected with the bonanno family who did loads of prison time recently out after racketeering anyway the guy was wearing a mask and it was in an unknown location he said the mob has had little problem in recruiting young guys that guys are still attracted to the life he said the mob was like "the catholic church"

i personally think there are young guys but shit quality like those decavs the cocaine dealings were a joke a bunch of gus in there 20s and 30s they were just friends with the son

now of course it is likely he was chatting shit but i was wondering what does everyone think could that be true

well no, but with other groups who are more capable of violence i just wonder how long the mob can stay on top

true

but the mob have very differant rackets to most groups they dont mix so thats no really a problem only group where there has been any real clash is the albaniens and the mob would have won the feds said before they indicted all the albanines they had heard through informats that the luchese family was going to kill all of them at once and the gambinos everyone knows about arnolds sit down with them that was 2005


since then nothing. Russians Mexican gangs etc they have different rackets they wont get involved so the mob is not really on top because they are not competition drugs is where normally different ethnic groups fight over well the mob is not that big in the drugs trade not like it used to be

thanks for your input, i appreciate it

Oh yeah, infact I thought it was already the situation. But I was corrected. Believe me, I have no love for organized crime, or unorganized. But I'm a big fan of Italian culture and food. Cook it at least 3 times a week. I quarantee I do it better than any of these frenchies, no matter how famous they are for their cooking.

Speaking from my personal experience growing up in Jersey, I'm 31 years old and there was still more than enough guys my age getting involved with LCN through bookmaking and drug dealing. I saw it with my own two eyes growing up

No. And for the record, his father was put out to pasture. Baby Shades is very heavy on Staten Island. But the Genovese powerbase will remain right where it is.

I'm 56. And by the time you're my age, the American mob will barely resemble today's mob, let alone what it was when I was your age. They'll be around, but the face of the American mob is going to have to make drastic changes if they don't want to become extinct after the next generation or two.

Gambling will always be there but the real successful guys $ wise will be the mostly legit guys and by mostly I mean doings things LE considers illegal but is common practice in almost every American business today from doctors to Wall Street to construction .

I would have thought they would be weaker today but I think a bunch of them adapted . They ain't what they used to be but in some industries in the area they look to still be in the mix . They are stubbornly hanging on to some things for longer than i think most would have thought . Must have been some decent leaders steering away from the cowboy act from years ago , staying off the radar etc .

The funny thing is that the guys that are 30 years old and involved think that it's 1920 and everything is fine and that they have guys to choose from .

They just don't know.

The fact is they will be in bad shape because they will become so dependent on associates with the lack of Italians let alone quality guys with a good head that can make real money.
With out real money what is left of that thing.

I have said this a hundred times you need the old guys that were from the street to mold these guys .
Without them these guys get hungry and do shit to fast ,get with people they should keep at arm's length and then there is trouble.

But most don't don't with out a mentor ,they just run balls to the wall right into the prison system or right into the hands of the Feds.

There is also sophisticated tools the Feds have it can bring ten good guys down before they hit 35 and even have a chance.

The whole thing as a whole has to be rethought no doubt .

They may be on to something with a ruling panel cos if o am not mistaken a ruling panel has not been brought down yet.

Drug dealing is where the most money can be made. You see all the drug busts being made all over the country. Does those arrests meaning any thing no.

If you can't stop the drugs coming in at the source new people will be falling over each other to take the guys place who are being arrested.

It's likely a combination of both. Because there are, without question, less guys with the stomach for murder today.

That's exactly what I meant when I said the face of the American Mafia is going to change drastically due to the assimilation of Italian Americans. They're going to have to start making half-Italians again to survive. Maybe even quarter-Italians, as long as the last mame is Italian. And they're also going to have to partner with the poorer and hungrier ethnic groups.

I was in Astoria the other day on business. Now, the Greeks have always gotten a pass to run card games there, as long as they did the right thing. But I've heard that the Middle Easterners in Northern Queens are cutting games now and they just don't give a fuck. These are people who kill themselves in the name of Allah every fucking day. Do you really think that someone with a 9/11 type of suicide mentality is going to be afraid of a bunch of goombahs?

Pizza,

Been trying like crazy to get in touch with you. I lost your email and can't send you a PM.

Sal (in Florida)

why was his father put out to pasture?

do you think barney is running the family because from what i have read he is either less involved because of the death of his wife or that he is running everything i dont know

He was with his wife from when they were teenagers. And say whatever you want about what the man does for a living, but they raised great kids. Not one of his boys has ever so much as whispered "Do you know who my Father is?"

That's rare. Most guys in that position have kids that are total assholes, forever throwing their weight around. Even the daughters. They're a very close family, and they took it very hard when Camille died. She was only in her mid-fifties.

Anyway, he's reined it in quite a bit. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he pulled a Gerry Catena and packed it in with a lot of good years ahead of him. People on these boards talk about Barney like he's still a kid. But he's almost sixty. He's a grandfather. He did twelve years standing on his head. But that doesn't mean he wants to go back inside. He spends a lot of time with his family now.