How many associates work directly for a soldier?

I know this topic has probably been repeated time and again but I was hoping to get some specific answers on this post.

When I talk about associates for a made man, I mean associates who DIRECTLY work for them. For example, before Nino Gaggi was a captain and Roy Demeo was made, their relationship was more of a partnership than an employment for Demeo. In these type of partnerships Gaggi is considered a first among equals.

I know that the general number of associates to soldier is about 10 to 1, but that number is usually embesllished and includes people who they purely deal with rather actually have working for them: fences, corrupt cops etc.

So basically I am looking to find out how many guys a soldier would have employed in his operation and who he gives direct orders to and which the associate has to comply.

Any input would be aprreciated

I doubt anyone has made statistics of that...

In other words, you'll just have examples with different numbers.

It depends on the soldier and the definition of the associate. Many associates will do business with more than one soldier. Tony Spilotro had 10-12 guys working for him in Vegas. Lefty Ruggiero had Donnie Brasco and nobody else working directly for him as far as we know.

As said above, it can vary widely.

In NY, the member-to-associate ratio I've seen by law enforcement has generally been 1:5. In New England and Philadelphia it is 1:2. New Jersey (DeCavalcantes) 1:1. Chicago about 1:5.

That said, I don't take associate estimates all the seriously, as the definition of what makes an associate can vary. But I do look at them for comparative purposes and a general idea of things.

Good point about Lefty Ruggiero. If you think about it, the only guys mentioned that he has working for him were Donnie and the two others who helped run King's Court, so the the three associates he had to his rank were all FBI agents lol

Depends Demeo was a de facto capo first of be made,some soldiers have 2-3 associates under him.

I don't understand why the genovese and the gambino has 200 made men and 1000 associate same think for the luccheses but for the bonannos 1:3 - 1:4 for the colombos very very few associates.

And why philly is listed 2 associates for 1 wiseguy and the Patriarcas 1:3 ?

Who decides the relationship between made men and associates?

The FBi,the police ecc ? who ?

The law enforcement estimated ratio is the same for all the NY families. The latest I've seen being 1:5. So, for the Genovese and Gambinos, who have 200 members each, 1,000 associates for each is the estimate. The three smaller NY families, with around 100 members each, 500 associates each is the estimate.

The last Chicago estimates, which were during the Family Secrets case, was 28 members (25-30 was the general range) and a little over 100 associates. So the ratio there is 1:4 or 1:5.

The most recent associate estimates I've seen for New England and Philadelphia was 100 associates. So, with 40-50 members each, the ratio is about 1:2. Philadelphia , for example, was once said to have nearly 300 associates. I suppose the smaller a family is, and the morest it declines, the less manpower affiliated with it.

Interestingly, the last estimate I saw for the DeCavalcantes was 50 associates, which is a rather small 1:1 ratio considering the family is said to have 40-50 members.

Again, I take associates estimates with a grain of salt because they can vary and fluctuate even among law enforcement l.

You have to factor in how many of those made men are behind bars or retired. A lot of the old guard is still alive but not active. For example the Stanfa/Scrafo guys in Philly. A lot of those guys are doing life. I imagine the NE family had a lot of older inactive guys.

Exactly. There can (or could be) a few that have long standing ties to that person who have demonstrated their loyalty only to get slowly bled-out financially over their entire lifetime, or the alternative, the ones who get wiped out from the start and shoved aside. Not to say there is no middle area but for the most part it is an alternating fucked up game of musical chairs. Really no way to tell.

in italy even the smallest families have a high number of associates a little family formed by 20 members has probably 200 associates

Yes, have as many associates as you see fit.
They are like pawns to be used, abused and cast aside.
Membership is an exclusive privilege for a select few.....

from reading a guy like demeo had more then a dozen killers and after lil als book that guy bruno f had dozens of gun guys plus brothers.

It's probably not anywhere close to an even skew; brokesters or working-class street soldiers might have one or two wannabes if that, while earners would probably have the lion's share.

In regards to Lefty Ruggerio actually, we never read about any associates other Donnie Brasco and his fellow undercover cops, but Lefty was a bookie so shouldn't he have a few guys working for him at least? I remember seeing a chart about a bookmaking bust in Staten Island a few years back and there were two Gambino soldiers arrested along with about 15-20 associates with them, so wouldn't Lefty have some agents and collectors working for him etc.?

Here is the chart Im talking about

http://media.silive.com/latest_news/other/Grand%20Jury%20Charts.pdf