What if Nicodemo flipped?

What would the current situation in Philly look like?

I'm sure he would have taken down a bunch of the Skinny guys. Ligambi, Merlino, Mazzone, and probably a host of others.

Who would be around? Some of the Scarfo guys? Narducci? Would that be the beginning of the end?

It just goes to show how fragile Philly is.

Would definetly be the beginning of the end imo

It would be Narducci's (and the old guard from the Scarfo era) for the taking. But it probably wouldn't be much of a viable mafia 'family' at that point anymore.

Nobody (except for Nicodemo himself) knows exactly what he could/would give up. But I imagine he could sink pretty much the entire hierarchy and several capos. Merlino, Mazzone, Ciancaglini, Ligambi, Mikey Lance, and several others.

I was thinking that the old Scarfo crew and 90% of the hang arounds were thinking this may be the best way to get rid of Skinny.If not he is going to go down kicking and punching .Because this guy is not retired........

The one down fall if Nicodemo flipped would be any rackets that are big money makers he will be giving up, and that side of the family will be starting from scratch. But come to think of it they had to do that anyway ,so maybe that would be the better out come.

You have to figure that if Nicodemo flipped, Grande does too. I mean, I don't know the guy personally, and this is not a knock on him. I'm just saying if your mentor flipped, and you're 34 years old, you probably tell the Mob to go fuck itself.

I am interested in this guy though. Is he an earner?

Is Dom Grande the one who actually shot DiPietro

Allegedly he is the shooter with NIcodemo driving I believe. But what do I know.

It would stay viable if they start making a bunch of guys. Might not be as strong, but still viable.

The Philly Crime Family is not economically viable.

They dont have a ton of Italian associates. They are going to just start making guys to increase numbers?

I am sure that would work out REALLY well.

Yeah it is pretty much known Nicodemo was just the driver.

I believe a second person (presumed to be Grande)

was either seen in the car circling the block, or by a witness

I wonder if this was Dom's first hit...or if he was involved in anything else, as a back up guy or trigger man or any role

Nicodemo was suspected to be in on the Gongs slaying. I wonder if he helped in that?

He is a young guy.

there's tons of young dudes around them, not saying they are looking to get "made" but def like to look and play the part and hang around them...they also seem to have alot of brothas around them now too

There are always jerk off wanna be losers trying to be around or impress mob guys

Does that make them mob material? I dont think so.

They would rat their first bust more than likely.

how many actual made philly guys are "mob material"?

Now you are arguing semantics.

Compared to the current made guys in Philly...these guys are not mob material

Take it for what it is worth

BJack: They don't have to be ,it takes thousands of these guys to keep cash in the soldiers pocket.
There may only be one or two out of all of them to know enough for anything to stand up in court if they tried to flip.
This is exactly what they want ,eventually one or two will rise up and become mob prospects. This may take five ten years depending on the made guy.
It is totally different then street gangs or bikers that is is a very short process ,maybe only a year to patch in a bike club.

I understand all of that but with their current numbers they can't really afford one or 2 guys trickling in every 5 or 10 years. Ligambi is getting up there in age and is semi retired. Might be a few other guys getting up there in age too...but the main core of Merlino and his guys are younger, middle aged guys. So that is one good thing for them.

Ligambi got caught on the Nicky Skins tape talking about how Merlino wanted to make 7 new members. So it's definitely not "one or 2 guys trickling in every 5 or 10 years."

Also despite being old as shit, the Scarfo guys have all hit the ground running since their releases.

True Ted if each made guy put up 1, 2 or 3 guys now and then the numbers come out to just about what has been going on.

I also think they have gotten a little smarter weather it has to do with age or spending all that time in jail,but I don't know this I am guessing they have changed the way they do things .

I really don't think that the guys on the bottom have a clue whats going on at the top.In past years the whole family knew when someone hit a score.I think those days are over ,and it is being used all the way up the chain (just to many rats before)

But as far as the numbers go they have been making guys and it is most likely hush hush .Philly always loved to let the whole city and more know who was the guy ,not anymore.

Then there is the Scarfo crew ,if the top guys are like the charts say then Stevie is giving the Scarf guys the ok to make guys also. Now this could be a double edge sword. I think they will make the more intelligent and business minded guys .No doubt they need street guys but they come a dime a dozen,and are all over anyway.

Most of them aren't even old in mob terms, they were young when they went away.

Strange how Joe Grande is with Scoops, why isn't he with the other Scarfo guys.

So are you claiming a resurgence of the Philly mob? I just don't see it.

We have seen most of the associates in busts already. Who are the 7 guys? Or are you saying they have not been ID'd?

I could see them staying steady for a while, but I just dont think the pool is there for them to grow.

How many made members do YOU think they have? In your opinion?

Just trying to get a feel for what you are saying.

Scoops bailed him out with Ligambi. Grande got into a beef in jail with Punge and was very supportive and loyal to the Scarfo camp. Scoops brought him into the fold Ligambi put him with scoops to make sure that Grande stayed loyal with the new adninistration.

This is one of the last charts I remember seeing. Granted it is 5 years old, It is roughly 30-35 made guys?

No ,Just a steady climb as long as LE let'e it, and I think that there are more made,but the wheels have been turning a little faster then the last 30 years .
We will just have to wait and see.

To be fair, as far as the "jerk off wannabes" that we talk about now. Joe Ligambi was a bartender/ low end bookie at age 30.

"The life" doesn't start for most people until they're in their 40's (AT LEAST). This ain't the Scarfo regime: Crazy Phil and Salvie were anomalies. I'd say the average is more like age 50 even for getting made in most families. There's a lot of growing up between 25 and 50. But I mean that's all opinion on my part, I'm 25!!!

Marty Angelina must be the comic relief of the family. He looks like one of The 3 Stooges with all those cuts and scratches on his face. What was he doing? Scratching his face with a rake?

Gaeton Lucibello looks like a chav going to watch Millwall and have a fight with the old bill innit.

George Borgesi looks like Adam Sandler going method playing a character with autism.

Uncle Joe was a bartender at an Italian restaurant on Pacific Avenue (don't want to put the name out there family friends)then when his book got rolling he moved down to Teddy's place that was called TK's that's were he started to roll .

u dug in the crates for that....movie was classic

I think most of them have been identified, but the only one I remember is Dominic Grande.

Grande was made in 2011

was micali made he was niccodcemos man in the boragat sports book thing

Ligambi said this in May 2010.

Oh, got the year wrong.

Anyway just pointing out that he is not an associate.

I screwed up the years/details, actually. They were talking about a making ceremony that happened 3 years prior. Don't ever listen to me.

"What follows is a partial transcript from that meeting, with Licata reminiscing about the 2007 “making” ceremony at which Fazzini and others were formally inducted into the Philadelphia crime family, refered to in the document as “LCN” (La Cosa Nostra).

Licata notes that Fazzini and Eric Esposito, a co-defendant in the racketeering case, were made at the same ceremony conducted by Ligambi. He states that Anthony Staino, another codefendant, also was present, along with Michael Lancelotti. Staino and Lancelotti, referred to as “Lance,” have been described as capos or captains in the Ligambi orgnaization.

Five others, including codefendant Damion Canalichio, were inducted in an earlier ceremony, Licata says, noting that Canalichio was initiated shortly before he went to prison (the “can”) for a drug conviction.

Licata references then-jailed mob boss Joseph “Skinny Joey” Merlino, who he says had proposed three others for membership. Ligambi declined to “make” those unnamed associates, Licata says, because he didn’t know them well. He tells Licata that Merlino can make them himself when he comes home from prison.

Also below, from the detention memo, is the federal prosecutors’ analysis of the transcript.
http://articles.philly.com/2012-05-04/news/31556726_1_racketeering-case-merlino-transcript

So in 2007 Fazzini, Esposito and Canalichio were made along with 4 other unnamed guys. Plus 3 unnamed guys Merlino has not inducted yet. Is it possible Grande was one of these 3 and Ligambi eventually decided to make him in 2011?
The transcript of the conversation is also in the link.

Prosecutors in his first trial (where he faced first-degree murder charges), alluded to Grande being the trigger man in the DiPietro hit. According to state police files, Grande was sponsored for membership in the Philadelphia LCN Family by Nicodemo in a late-200os induction ceremony presided over by Ligambi, recently tapped the Borgata’s consigliere upon his return from a more than two-year stay as a guest of the government in the winter of 2014.

From an article. I guess it was after Joey got out, but I don't know if he was at the ceremony or just gave his okay from Florida after he was out to have Ligambi do the ceremony.

Grande, Joseph Servidio, and cant remember the 3rd

What if the King of England got the Bruce Jennerectomy?

Would he be the Queen?

One of the funnier things I've seen/heard today. I love the Philly chats and threads, but I'm with you on this one. I think the whole thing is a moot point, anyway. I don't see Nicodemo flipping - EVER. Maybe down the line somewhere he will prove me wrong. But for right now he has proven that he is nothing but a stand up guy who is going to take his sentence on the chin and do his time.

Not that spending 20-30 years in jail is something that regular civilians aspire to do. In "their" lifestyle though, he could come home sometime in his 60's with the utmost respect and be a major player in the administration, a la Chickie Ciancaglini now.

Will there even be a Philly family in 30 years?

Maybe not. But they've survived worse things in their past than what Nicodemo could possibly do if he flipped or what would happen once the Feds possibly/eventually dismantle Merlino and his hierarchy at the top.

Whether Scarfo was a homicidal maniac or a bad boss is a different debate, but what happened during his reign and then the war that continued with Stanfa afterwards seriously crippled the family, but never decimated it.

In 30 years, people will still be gambling, buying/selling drugs, and other vices that are primary staples of the mob. Just like the rest of the remaining families today (and all organized crime in general), I'm sure they can be critically wounded but I don't know if they can ever fully be finished off.

does anyone know if maybe one of the 3 unknown guys that joey wanted to make of one of them was allie lance?? mike lance's nephew?? im not positive hes made but im pretty sure he is.. hes a young guy like grande..south philly for sure has more younger potential members then people think.. you see a lot of young guys hanging around narducci.. then you got all the young guys who were involved in the Borgata book case..don't know if anyone of them were made besides nicodemo but either way young associates.
I still think that the depietro hit is one of the most fascinating things to happen mob wise in the 2000's.. would love to know the real truth behind it all. cause it was so fucked up I just cant accept that was really how it was planned.. especially since nicodemo has been suspected in a couple other hits that never got solved..

I think the 3rd one was known I just cant recall or find where it was stated who it was. Might have been a guy on the other board, or may have even been Scott B.

Two of them were Grande and Servidio though.

how did everybody made on the same day get pinched n the same case

Unlucky ceremony.

Probably the black bird flew in the window like Christopher MOltisanti's ceremony.

Christopher Nicodemo is listed as an associate, I wonder what relation he is to Anthony.

Merlino wasn't in Philly in 2011 so he couldn't of made Grande. Ligambi must have changed his mind (it was 4 years since Grande was proposed for membership) and decided to do it himself.

Wasn't Merlin there in 2011 for his fathers funeral ?

Primo, that was in November 2012. Less than a month before the DiPietro hit.

(Not saying Joey sanctioned it or had anything to do with it as some reporters are saying.)

I don't think so

Word is he fell back in more with the 10th and O guys

Does potential mean that they are somewhat young and Italian American? If they were smart they would make their own side money on their own. You don't need to be connected down here anymore. The smart guys are the ones who have legit jobs and do a little extra so they can live a better life. Or just work hard and do nothing on the side. A lot of these young guys you talk about as "potential" are there because of the lack of talent. They aren't some big pool of great upcoming mobsters. Its stupid if they were. They have nothing else they can do...at least some of they. A lot of it is laziness. And some like to get involved because they think they are famous in SP cause of it. Just stupid to be directly involved anymore. I know this post is all over the place. I just wanted to point out that the "potential" you talk about are not guys that are the smartest per se.

Glad you said it

I wasn't trying to go into that kind of detail, but basically my point earlier

I by no means was trying to say that the younger hang arounds are up and comers or "rising stars".. not at all.. I was simply stating there is some young guys who hang around.. are they worth a shit? of course not.. what young kids involved these days are?? most of them are morons and aren't capable of doing anything but being someones bitch.
and youre right.. if youre smart its way better to just fly below the radar and do your own thing.. but people love being known as being associated with so and so's or whatever.. even though it does them no good / all it does is cost them $ they could be keeping themselves.