Why did mob quit drug dealing?

Isnt it the most profitable crime activity? Why did LCN just leave it to other gangs? Was it because of the law enforcement? Or it was as some people says, they were waped out of this area?

They are very much still involved. Just take a look at recent indictments like the one of Trucchio of the Gambino's cocaine, cannabis, prescription stuff.

But those size are small, not like cartels are doing.
By the way, Cammora is dealing lots of drugs?

Well the American mafia is small in numbers compared to cartels. And its just not possible to run a huge cartel like in mexico in America. The law enforcement would take them down quick.
Yes the camorra is big into drug trafficking all over Europe.

Did the number much more smaller in60s and 70s? I thought the whole mob with 5000 made man and their associates is similar in size to a cartel.
Also, how many cartel members are there in US?

I think the main reason was when the stiffer sentences were handed down for dealing , guys were more likely to flip if they got jammed up , also there were instances of guys using there supply also causing loose lips

And Sally Larca Jr. just got nine years for dealing high grade weed.

They're still very much involved in drug dealing. They move a lot of heroin to this day. They're just not at the same level as the cartels. But who is?

They will always be involved , it's mega money and u don't need brains to do it

Good point. For instance, they're not all capable of running a profitable sports book. You have to be fairly sharp to make it in that business .

once the heroin pipeline was discovered, that was the end of that. once the heroin refining labs in sicily were dismantled, there went the source. all that heroin was primarily sourced from afganistan, and without refining, the vast majority of that stuff is now destined for the european market as crude #3 heroin base, not the high quality powder it was turned into previously. besides that, the american mob has enough problems of their own and italian organized crime has focused on importing cocaine as opposed to exporting heroin. combine that with the increased availability of high quality columbian and now mexican heroin along with the distribution networks and infrastructure to support it, the only avenue left for the mob is mid-level involvement.

Exactly. That's why it's silly to compare them to the cartels.

The Mafia will always be where the money is and there is money to be made in drug dealing..

Some people are really dumb. Just because you haven't heard about through indictments doesn't mean its not happening and vice versa.

It always surprises me how little involvement the mob have in major league drug deals in the USA. I guess the CIA and others have it pretty sown up.

In Europe nearly all the major crime syndicates are involved in drugs in one way or another, because that's where the major cash is.

Don't think it will be long for an indictment to come down on the Gambino's & the Sicilian mafia there working with, only a matter of time.

what would lead you to make that sort of an assumption, simply because there are sicilians within the ranks of the gambino's? things change alot in a few years in the drug world, much less 30-40 years ago when the cross atlantic heroin pipeline was at its peak.

here's the breakdown: columbian and mexican wholesalers dominate the northeast market, anybody arguing anything different is just out to lunch. dominican organizations are typically at the top of the food chain as far as wholesale distribution is concerned and are also well entrenched in street level sales along with black and puerto rican groups. again, the mob organizations are no more than mid-level dealers at best, be in coke and heroin, or pills and weed.

He always blurts these things out with such conviction as if he knows something.

the gambinos have already had two recent attempts at creating a working partnership with italian organised crime. The most recent one being the failed drug deal with the Ndrangheta. If you look at recent indictments it seems that along side the usual stuff theres a bit of pill trafficking, but that doesn't make them kings of that trade either.

Exatcly, it always seems to be people who have never even seen a mobster IRL like this UK guy or some google buff like IVY

There are still crews moving decent amounts of heroin?! Care to name them?

There's several reasons why LCN is no longer in control of the drug trade.

1. Heroin is no longer the drug of choice. Back in the 1960-70's, heroin was the drug of choice. The heroin supply came through Sicily via the Middle East. It was natural that the Italian OC groups were in control of the wholesale distribution. The past 35 years cocaine has been the drug of choice. Cocaine comes from South America, so the Colombians and Mexican cartels control the wholesale. The cocaine either goes direct from Colombia to Florida or across the US-Mexico border. Why would those groups need or want the Italians involved?

2. LCN was never much into dealing at the street level. Some associates would do it, and maybe a few lowly made men. It was looked down upon and dealing in the Italian neighborhoods would get you killed back then. A white guy can't go into the ghetto and deal. The street level dealing was always dominated by the black and Hispanic street gangs. On the streets, violence and numbers rule. The Mafia doesn't have the numbers and violence would attract too much attention.

3. The stiff drug sentences keeps most guys away. Gene Gotti got 50 years for moving a few million dollars of heroin. Tory LoCascio got 5 years for stealing hundreds of millions through the phone and porn scam.

And there aren't too many White guys who could even supply the street level Black and Dominican dealers in this day and age. The one BIG exception being Vinny Basciano. Those Dominicans respected the Hell out of him.

Now I realize that he's been locked up for ten years, but as recently as the late '90s-early '00s, name me another forty-something year old White guy with the balls to slap a deadbeat Black dealer south of 161st Street. Or go into the Heights by himself and deal with those Dominicans.

The guy had a short run, and the truth is he probably wouldn't have made a very good long term boss. But the guy was absolutely fucking fearless.

You are wrong, heroin is bigger than ever right now. More users than ever before.

True Shit !!!

Cocaine is much bigger than heroin. Besides heroin can come to the west coast or the cartels these days. There is no more pizza connection

You really believe cocaine is the drug of choice these days? I don't know if you realize, but heroin has been the leading drug of choice in the United States since the Oxycontin epidemic started in the early 2000s. It has surpassed cocaine big time in the drug industry, coke still brings in a shit ton of money, but definitely not as much as heroin.

I gotta disagree with you on this to a level. Five felonies nailed it for who runs the heroin trade in Boston, but the whites still control certain markets too. Im not gonna name anybody, but i know of guys that have gone into whatever neighborhood it may be and took care of what they had to.

I can't speak to the peddling habits of any OC group but 85% of the admissions to my drug treatment center are for opiates and heroin leads the list followed by Dilaudid and then Oxy's. The only thing that LE accomplished by going after pill mills was driving the price of pills sky high and then driving the addicts to the much cheaper and stronger heroin. Now this phenomenon was not lost on the Mexican cartels who started shipping H to the US that is cut with fentanyl which is responsible for many of the OD deaths.

The characteristic of the American mafia after Lucky Luciano is to have a structure and hierarchy to be highly organized compared to the other Irish, Jewish etc. gangs.

So heroin until the 60s the H or came from the Corsican mafia, which produced in asia or through Turkey arrived in Sicily that was full of laboratories for refining heroin.
In 1968 Frank Lucas directly procuring heroin in asia cutting out the middleman broke the monopoly of the American and Corsican Mafia.

Then in the late 70's and early 80s exploded consumption of cocaine. (just watch the movie Cocaine Cowboy to see how the money from the coke have changed the economy of Miami and Florida) and after the Pizza Connection Trial the American Mafia has lost its role in the distribution of drugs.

why he lost its role?

With the advance of the Colombian and Mexican drug cartels that are much more ruthless even the Sicilian Mafia, with increasing the punishment due to drug trafficking etc. simply the mafia families have collapsed.
Gene Gotti took 50 years and don't flip, Jack DiNorscio took thirty years and don't flip.
The new made men don't have the same force or intelligence of the old time mafiosi.

Also if until the 70s the mobsters had privileges in prison, now the idea of ​​being buried for 20,30 years in federal prison scares the strongest.
Including the risk of being attacked or killed by the first crazy with a knife or the protection money to the prison gangs (like gambino who pay the Aryan Brotherhood for protection)
And understand that it is better to earn in a month what they could earn in a week, but be free for enjoy the money.

The American Mafia, unlike the black or Hispanic cartels and gangs prefers to be invisible and earn as much as possible with few use of violence or murder (since you can be sentenced to life imprisonment as Alphonse Persico for 'murder Cutolo, even without a body, not to mention the DNA).

So families continue to make money with drugs but trying to avoid heavy sentences.

Why the mentality of a mobster compared to a member of a street gang is to make more money as possible and arrive at 70-80 years and retire to enjoy the money earned.
A member of a street gang knows that his end will be or die during a turf war or end up in prison, where he will be part of a prison gang (Black Guerilla Family, Aryan brotherhood or Eme for example) and will continue to do what he did outside.

Sorry if I have dwelt but tell me if I'm wrong

Furio good post and this is who the LCN should get in bed with for their drug business

http://www.thefix.com/content/canadian-m...ills-discovered

Well, I was obviously talking about the Bronx. What do I know from Boston?

Yes NNY78 the playmate connection.

Boseley and Brandht make delighted the lesbians in prison and/or the male warders if there are in the jail where they are.

Works for me .

Boston ? I heard they had to bring in a few shooters from Y-town to get down

And there aren't too many White guys who could even supply the street level Black and Dominican dealers in this day and age. The one BIG exception being Vinny Basciano. Those Dominicans respected the Hell out of him.

Now I realize that he's been locked up for ten years, but as recently as the late '90s-early '00s, name me another forty-something year old White guy with the balls to slap a deadbeat Black dealer south of 161st Street. Or go into the Heights by himself and deal with those Dominicans.

The guy had a short run, and the truth is he probably wouldn't have made a very good long term boss. But the guy was absolutely fucking fearless. [/quote
Well, I was obviously talking about the Bronx. What do I know from Boston?
[/quote]

Boston ? I heard they had to bring in a few shooters from Y-town to get down [/quote]

Yea thats what they did buddy and PB i know you were talking about the bronx, obviously. And your right what do you know about Boston.

Just what you guys tell me .

Cocaine is still the number one drug in terms of money. Heroin is more popular in Hollywood and with white suburban kids, but cocaine still dominates in the ghettos and there is more money to be made there selling drugs. The Mexicans and Colombians are making the most money selling drugs. What does that tell you?

From the DEA:
The Drug Enforcement Administration's National Forensic Laboratory Information System also shows strong variation in drug preferences based on location. The laboratory system collects results from state local forensic laboratories that study controlled and non-controlled substances obtained through law enforcement operations throughout the country.

According to the labs, between January and June 2009, methamphetamine was most commonly seen in the West, where it accounted for 25.49 percent of the drugs analyzed by labs in that region. In the other parts of the country, meth was less commonly seen. For instance, it made up only .43 percent of drugs analyzed by labs in the Northeast.

Cocaine, meanwhile, accounted for 33.43 percent of drugs identified by Northeastern laboratories, and 31.1 percent of the drugs analyzed in the South. Heroin was also relatively popular in the Northeast, accounting for 13.53 percent of the drugs analyzed in this region of the country.

I was talking about street level dealers. You're not going to have white guys going into the hood and dealing dimebags to blacks. The black gangs would kill them before you know it. Whites can supply to the streetgangs but not take over their corners and crackhouses.

Mulberry, Are you speaking in terms of what the OC groups are peddling or US drug consumption in general?

I agree with you on this

OC groups are peddling what the consumers are using. From the stats, cocaine is still number, and that is controlled by the Colombians and Mexicans at the wholesale level and other Latino and black groups at the street level. That is one of the reasons the Mafia lost control of drug trafficking. Opiods are getting more popular again, but most of it is coming from the southern border, west coast, or domestic. The old Sicily to NYC pipeline that dominated narcotics is gone forever.

I agree that the LCN days are long gone but cocaine has never been the number one illegal drug in terms of volume imported and sold in the US by the bad guys, that title has always been held by marijuana, followed by opiates which over took cocaine for the number 2 spot in 2012. I think people forget about weed because it is considered harmless compared to narcotics. You can make a case there is more money in Blow and H, but weed is hands down the most trafficked of all illegal drugs in the US, and that's part of the reason why the states are moving toward legalization, so they can tax it and get in on the action.

I agree, cocaine is not #1 by volume. I was talking about terms of money. Prescription drugs will always be #1 followed by weed. When you talk about opiates, that is too wide a pool. Heroin is different from oxy and other opiate-based painkillers.

You're right the smart thing to do is to legalize, regulate, and tax weed like alcohol and tobacco. There is also a prison-court-police system that depends on creating criminals that doesn't want it legalized. I don't think weed is totally harmless as some claim, but it certainly isn't bad enough to put people in prison over.

how can anyone justify the money spent on the WAR on drugs, billions have been spent, and the drugs are as available as they ever were, mulberry is correct. prison- court police system depending on arrests, is the opposition for legalization.

Pot was never my thing. And the truth is, I always dismissed most potheads as hippies and such. But the truth is, alcohol is a lot more addictive than weed. And people under the influence of weed aren't nearly as dangerous as people under the influence of alcohol. If alcohol's legal, then pot should be legal.

And as I type this, I'm sipping an ice cold Ketel One Gimlet (withe Rose's lime juice) .

so, you prefer to drink your intoxicants? we got you covered!

You know me so well, FF .

I'm sipping on a little Southern Comfort on the rocks, the temp has dropped into the 60's down here for Christ sakes

BRRRRRRRRRRR.....

Enjoyed that thoughtful post. Yet want to correct you on a few notes.

I think you meant Frank Matthews not Lucas. Most Black & Latino american based DTOs ( Drug Trafficking Organizations) also prefer to remain in the shadows and have lower level members or contractors due the dirty work of killings. Generally it's only when needed but it's the business aspect of the drug trade. Some of these DTOs are maximizing profits from mid-level to street-level. Laundering the proceeds into legit establishments and other illicit activities , you never know who the King/Queenpins until DEA/FBI indictments (McDonald's manager style Gus )

The street gang member mentality is same as mobsters but varies on age. Young members tend to wants 10s of millions overnight while mature members do long term planning. Besides their not solely reliant on drugs from their inception nor will fallback on it as the only hustle. That's why currently their involved in white collar crime, high $$$ low risk. They evolved as well.

On the other note about the main/lead drug in America , it's diverse because it varies state to state and cities. Heroin is the minor market in Mississippi and Coke/Meth/Weed are majors. Dealers work together Black,White, Vietnamese , and Mexican in the trafficking scene. No LCN market in these parts; just the good ole boys, drug crews/org, 5 & 6, and Corruption galore.

Pot was never my thing. And the truth is, I always dismissed most potheads as hippies and such. But the truth is, alcohol is a lot more addictive than weed. And people under the influence of weed aren't nearly as dangerous as people under the influence of alcohol. If alcohol's legal, then pot should be legal.

And as I type this, I'm sipping an ice cold Ketel One Gimlet (withe Rose's lime juice) . [/quote]

believe this 100percent.... and im for sure not biased on the topic.. I hate smoking weed... and I haven't sipped 1 whole beer in probably 3 years.. never liked either substance at all..i think im literally the only person in my age group who doesn't smoke weed. people look at me like I got a dick growing off my forehead when theyre smoking and pass it to me and I decline... haha

In today time , Your not the only one feeling that way. You don't smoke , drink, nor do drugs then you get either the For real face along with a joke/life must be boring without being F'D up or respect.

There's a reason why Europeans crime groups dont dare to traffick drugs into the U.S because they afraid of Uncle Tom sending DEA agents into.Europe and getting indicments here in the U.S.A.

well they never really stopped from there beginning drug dealing was always a way to make money. they aint ever not sold drugs obviously that is a good steady revenue.

The Mob's organizational structure probably works against them too. An outfit that purchases drugs with company money and hires 200 employees to protect and deal them is pretty much always going to beat one that licenses 200 independent operators to buy and deal their own drugs and kick up a piece of the profit. It's like Pfizer versus Amway.

Great thread, everyone's on their shit lol...

I am under the impression the Rizzutos are still smuggling drugs into the US over the St. Lawrence with guns going the opposite direction.

60 degrees is pretty pleasant where I'm at