How strong are the Russians?

I just watched the movie The Equaliser. The main antagonist is the main problem solver for the Russian mob. He went around the city and made calls to different organizations around the north east, basically punking them. They mentioned Irish and Italians. How much pull do the Russians have? This movie implies that they are the most powerful of the underworld organizations. I know its a movie, but what kind of power do they have in the real world, as compared to say the 5 families or other mob organizations.

Back in the 1990's a lot of people, including journalists, authors, and some in law enforcement, believed the Russians would become the top dogs in organized crime. Like other groups before them, as well as the Albanians afterward, that never really happened. It was mostly hype. Russians and other Eurasian groups have carved out their niche in the underworld, especially when it comes to various sophisticated financial scams, but their MO - which involves small, loosely organized groups coming together to commit a specific crime and then disbanding - don't have the numbers or hierarchy they would need to present a real threat to the LCN. If they are stronger in a given area than the LCN, like Las Vegas and Miami in recent years for example, that's due much more to attrition of the LCN and law enforcement than the Russians pushing aside the Italians.

Are you talking about the Russians' power in the USA or about their power in Russia and the world in general? Because in the USA the power is limited I think, but in Russia they pretty much buy everething and everyone they want.
I wonder what would have happened if for example the Solntsevskaya bratva had a disagreement with the Yamaguchi-gumi or the 'ndrangheta on a neutral territory where none of them feels at home and has advantages? Who would have managed to make their roots there?

Ivyleague,no disrespect but this what you are talking about is debateble.If you are talking about US than it might be true,but even than it can a small difrence.Anyway it's not my poin.My point is that there is no richer or touger group than the Russian group.It long gone since the time the russian were involved in only loansharking,gambling and stuff like that.Billions are at stake with these guys.Whole eastern europe is under russian control,every one answers to the russians belive me.The west too,france totaly russian controled.Germany is russian controled,they eve beat out albanian and serbian crime groups that were very strong.Uk,benelux and the small countries are und russian gangsters.They actualy control the smaller groups that do drugs and prostitution and such low level crime.The smagle gas,gold everything that makes billions.Its not only gangsters,there are university educated guys who are not into petty crime like drugs and people smagling.


So to say that the LCN that partly controls NY and some other eastern parts of us is stronger than the russian organized crime groups(that for sure control europe,north asia,probably some areas of US,and who knows what else)is a pretty bold statement.

US is a really big ground for operation. You can get into anything criminal there to make money if you got brains. Same with many other good situated countries. This isn't the 90's in Russia anymore, when you need to fight over for one small market in the local city. That's why there's no such things like major LCN or Russian groups going into conflict nowdays, they more often will work together in various schemes than go into conflict, which is just logical as it's better to make money than to kill each other and risk the consequences.

Russian groups aren't anything near to LCN by structure, there are small crews like you remember the Brigade Chulpayev was in and there are large organizations like Izmailovskaya or Solntsevskaya that base themselves in Russia and have brigades operating in other countries. A small brigade will not have big power, as you might predict. But a larger organization like Izmailovskaya, if they'd go into conflict with another larger organization in US they'd have enough force to use against it.

Take in mind, groups such large can easily turn all these small brigades on their side in exchange of money and contacts to more business or by just saying they'll get onto eliminating them or their relatives back in Russia. It's familiar to the thing that the Mexican Mafia did to Sureno gangs, with just one sentence "If you won't get into prison, your friends or family will, and we'll be there."

All the russian groups that work in Russia and close vicinty are under Putin'control one way or another,you don't worry about that that's for sure.Its not the same structure as LCN,but there certanly is a structure.And LCN is based in US alone,not the whole world like the russians are.N'drangeta and sicily is not rhat close to LCN,they are seperated.It's long gone from the times when LCN could kill a president or elect one,when they controled the US.

Mikhailov, the boss of the Solntsevskaya, really crossed the limit today: when answering to journalists who made a scandal out of him being rewarded by Putin, he told a quote from the Bible while referring to them "Forgive them, Lord, because they don't know what they are doing. They will be punished by justice both of God and humans".
He also boasted of having given the Church and charity more than 100 millions of dollars: he obviously thinks that God is a sort of big businessman interested only in money and power like himself. What a pathetic and useless individual. Such a pity he survived the 90s. I hope he will be naive enough to go into politics and cross somebody of Putin's friends, it would be enjoyable to look at them biting at each others' throats.

No it's a thing that orthodox cristians do,they give money to the church to rebuild and stuff like that.It not an anordinary thing.He is one of the known mobster/buisness man.There ate a lot more that are not known,the second lang in istael is russian.They easy can get israeli passports.I am telling you they are comanding a lot of power world wide.

Its nonsense to compare LCN with russians because russians consists of hundreds of independent crime organizations but LCN is one organization. You say LCN only controls northeast america but you didnt mention how many territories Italian gangsters have world wide.Why dont you count all the power that LCN ,sicilian mob,comorra and Ndr have? Did any russian OC organization ever gained the similar power as LCN did in US ?

In Philly the Russians run shit. They work allot with the albanians. I get what is being said about the russians not having an official boss, but in every pack there is an alpha male who calls the shots. That one guy Semion Monglivich made more in a day with that pharma scam in bucks county than the entire philly family has made in the last 20 years. In philly its no question that the pecking order for OC is 1) Philly PD 2) Russians 3)Pagans
4) Philly Family..... I know some people may not agree with the pagans being ahead of the Philly LCN, but in sheer numbers and propensity for violence they are wayyyyy ahead of philly Family.

No disrespect to you but what you state is also very debatable. You make it sound as if the "Russian" mob is the all powerful ruler of every organized crime group on earth. That is not true at all. On the contrary, especially in Western Europe people have the tendency to group every criminal gang that came from the Soviet Union into the "Russian mafia" category. You have the groups linked to ethnic Russian bratva's like Solntsevskaya Bratva, there are Georgian gangs (especially the Kutaisi and Rustavi clans), Chechen gangs, Armenian gangs, Azerbaijani gangs, Ingush gangs as well as Ukrainian-Israeli groups that operate throughout Western Europe and are all shamelessly grouped into the "Russian mafia" category while they all belong to different groups. Even within the Solntsevskaya Bratva there are lots of seperate brigades that are prone to infighting.
The "Russians" never pushed anyone out of their home territory in Western Europe, nor did they ever become the most powerful group in the most strategic places in Western Europe. If anything homegrown organized crime groups in the UK, Ireland, the Netherlands and France (mainly Corsicans, Travellers and groups from the "banlieues") as well as Italian, Albanian, Serbian/Montenegrin, Turkish/Turkish-Kurdish, Lebanese and Triad groups still hold on well to their territory and don't have to kick up anyhting to any "Russian" group. I'm not saying the "Russian" groups aren't powerful, because they can be powerful. But stories of them pushing each and every other criminal organization out are nothing but hype.

I think your making the same claims about lcn your disagreeing with about the russians.

Firstly LCN dont control the north east of america anyway.

The 5 families in new york, sicilian mob, comorra and ndrgangeta are all separate organisations themselves.

From what I know, a really major number of criminals from Baltic States have went to UK and Ireland and they run big things now there.

why cant i say LCN controls northeast US when it is the most powerful OC group there?
i mention several seperated mafia clans only because the statement i am against held the view that the whole russian mob is larger than LCN.I only want to show him that it is a nonsense comparision.

To move from being a street gang to being organized crime and a secret society using covert influence, a group needs to gain associates in government. This is where the Russians have a distinct disadvantage in the states. Due to the fact that they originate in an enemy country, even our corrupt officials here are probably loathe to become entangled in relationships with that. Good sense would tell a person right away that as soon as they arrive in America, they might already be agents of a foreign official.

Who wants double agents?

Thats your opinion i guess. But what exactly do they control that backs up your statement of them controlling the north east of the USA?

To me i would say that they are perhaps one of the largest OC groups based in the north east but even then you would have to divide them into 5 different groups with varying amounts of power and influence.

Scorsese, what follows is the opinion of someone who is not connected in any way, doesn't know anyone connected, and doesn't have any first hand knowledge of criminal life.

If the Five Families made the Sicilian Mafia pay them a tax to be able to distribute in the United States, how is any Russian mob muscling in in any major way on the drug trade. Everyone who was not under the protection of the American Mafia was going to jail, whether they knew it or not. The American Mafia was connected to the Narcs directly and indirectly.

How can another crime group muscle in in any major way when everybody on the harbor is Mafia connected? You need the harbor to ship in the most massive amounts of Smack. The other crime groups can sneak in a little here and there, but they won't be able to use ships, maybe not even the airports. Airports have always been under domination of the local Cosa Nostra hood element. Then what policies did the American Mafia institute when they banned the sale of drugs by lower members of their organization? They told them they could never sell drugs, but they could rob unconnected drug dealers. So if you have Russian guys moving junk, according to the way things used to be, they had to pay tribute or they'd be either killed or indicted.

You shuld read abou serbian mafi in the 90s and 00s,and see what it means to have control of the entire state,politicians and people.I think no where in the world(i don't know about latin america and africa)did the mafia had so much power.I don't know if anybody here have heard about a guy named Arkan Ražnatovic.He was the leader of Tiger unit a military wing of the state during the yugoslac/balkan wars.Started out as a criminal and a hitman,he was interpol's most wanted,yet he owned a 1st league football club ,and a seat int he yugoslav parlament.He had so much power that it was unbellivable.Best friends with slobodan milosevic,offcourse you all know who he was.

I don't think there was a tax on sicilian mobsters. They distributed it through the families, in fact a number of those sicilians actually joined those families. It was a mutual partnership if anything. Also your talking about the mafia of 30-50 years ago.



Thats not true cause a lot of the american mafioso went to jail as well. French Connection, pizza connection, pleasant avenue all got busted at one point or another along with many american mobsters who did long sentences.



Its a very gross exaggeration to say everyone on the harbour is mafia connected. Also a lot of the drugs coming into the US come up through the border through tractor trailers and trucks. Many different groups use shipping containers and airports to smuggle drugs,people and stolen cars through as well without any mafia involvement.



Robbing drug dealers is nothing new and also doesn't really mean your powerful. Drug dealers get robbed all the time.

There are many and have been many drug organisations and street gangs dating back to the early 70s that operate openly in new york without paying tribute or being killed.

Regarding the Pizza Connection and the heroin dealing under Carlo Gambino and Castellano...

If there is a Sicilian faction in a Gambino Family and they are moving the Smack, but their top guy is a both a member of the Sicilian Cosa Nostra and a made man, a Capo with the Gambinos, then that Sicilian Capo is kicking up to the Gambino Boss.

So in that arrangement, the zips are doing the shipping and receiving, they are collecting the money, and sending the stuff out to the small time distributors, and also kicking up tax to the American Boss. The idea behind the rule against drug dealing was to insulate all Americans (anyone "on record" with Uncle Sam) and by extension the American Cosa Nostra Boss, from RICO and Rockefeller drug laws. The idea I guess was that surveillance would be harder when the guys moving the stuff are illegals with no papers, no social security numbers, nothing.



Not when one Union (Int'l Longshoreman's Union) controls the whole harbor and you got key people in the Union.

You could be right. However the key players in that were members of the gambino and bonanno families and were being supplied by gaetano baldamenti. They had the connections across the pond and in fact a lot of money was sent back over there. It wasn't a tax, it was there heroin so of course they got their share of the proceeds.



Union can't control what comes in and out. And they can't see through containers.
Cases in point.
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2014/august/counterfeit-goods-smuggling-ring-dismantled

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2014/02/carjacking_ring_broken_up.html

Unions can't just naturally detect the contraband of other criminal groups. Unions are mostly just used for looting, kickbacks and shaking down workers etc.

Anything to back up all these claims? You make it sound like the Russians control the entire world.
I'll give you just two numbers. According to you, the Russians controll Germany, but according to the German FBI:
Total of organized crime suspects in 2013: 9,155
Suspects of Russian origin: 145

That's about 1.5%.

Believe it or not, but organized crime in Germany is dominated - by Germans. And I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same in France, England and Spain.

What is german organized crime?there is no german organized crime gangsters,i never heard of ene one.russia,turkish and albanian,top 3 crime groups.Ethnic german are wealthy,they don't go into crime.There are sone german neo nazi groups,but they don't care so much about making money.

richest highrolers are the russoan and nobody messes with them.I don't know about your statistics,but they are the richest.And it's logical,there are the most populos nation in europe,and they are more into white crime not so much drugs and prostitution.90% of the russoan tycons are crime related,thats also what i put in the pot.All of my fathers family lives there,and my brothers were born there,and live there.I work there every summer.But ofcorse i could be wrong,if you are a german than am not gonna argue with you,because its your country and you live there,i woulnd't let anyone tell my about my country.

Russians are into a lot of things here in Brooklyn both legal and illegal. But even their legal things are almost illegal.

I spend a fair amount of time in Germany. The Turkish in Germany are into a lot of stuff like guns, heroin, bring in precious metals like gold things like that. Plus they make a mean tomatoe soup.

Thanks for the links. My point is that if you control the union, you control what containers don't get inspected. That is a powerful thing. Without juice in the union, your shipments are in danger of being discovered and confiscated. And who knows how else the union helped the Mafia on the docks.

Maybe i am,but i cant see anything you can be proud of only for your knowing some connected guys and having a lot of oc knowleage. I assume you only know what happens in US and what i know is the crime organizations in my neighborhood. Stop feeling good about yourself and saying something disrespect to somebody like he is not here watching the post. Maybe its not a good idea to sit in front of a computer and say you are better than someone else.

I was talking about Russian OC here in the U.S. It's a different story in Russia itself and internationally. Though, even in Russia, things aren't like they were 20 years ago.



As I said above, I'm talking about Russian OC within the U.S. (which it seemed you were referring to) Not so much in Russia or elsewhere. If we're talking about Russian OC on an international scale, a better comparison would be the Italian OC groups that operate internationally - the Cosa Nostra, 'Ndrangheta, Camorra, and SCU.

However, if we're talking about the OC scene here in the U.S. alone, what I said isn't bold at all. The predictions made 20 years ago about Russian OC have not come true. As one article said, "large-scale, highly structured Russian groups rivaling those of La Cosa Nostra have yet to emerge" and the Russians here "appear to have only tenuous and incidental links to criminal groups" in Russia.

Like I said, Russian and other Eurasian groups have certainly carved their own niche in the underworld. They are among the most sophisticated, especially at various financial scams, and are among the top investigative priority for the feds in certain areas of the country. A came out a while back that Russian OC is now the top priority for the FBI in Miami.

However, as I said, whether in Miami or elsewhere, this is more a case of there being no LCN family remaining or it having been severely weakened by attrition and law enforcement. Not a case of the Russians coming in and pushing aside the Italians - which many claimed would be the case years ago. Aside from Miami, in those areas where there is still a significant LCN presence, especially in New York, I don't see much evidence of the Russians having surpassed the LCN.

I doubt any of these criminal groups tend to have a need to "surpass" anyone, they're making money without any beef and that's what's best for everyone.