Vito Rizzuto Power Real Power

Gang leader Ducarme Joseph was shot dead in St. Michel on Friday night.His death was likely retaliation for slaying Vito's son, press reports revealed.That is power From the grave plus what he accomplished with cancer after getting out of prison.. Last of his breed.Best RIP VITO AND FAMILY

What a mong..glorifying killers.

I am going to have to agree with TommyGambino.....Even though I find the topic of La Cosa Nostra interesting, I would never be amazed by their power to whack someone out.....The guy who got whacked out maybe, had a son or daughter of their own. I can't support that but am intrigued by it.The guy was probably following orders out of fear he would be killed if he didn't.

I think it is the word BEST that we have a problem with.....Omit that and the post isn't too over the edge

Who says he's glorifying a killer?

The term 'best' could easily be referring to Rizzuto as the 'best' modern gangster.

Of certainly a case could be made.

Let's not jump on the guys back too early here.

Welcome to the board PaulieSenter.

Yeah the guy may have kids and stuff like that , but these people know wot they get into , they should think about that stuff before they get involved with mobsters and killers . It's that simple

to be fair Vito was boss in Canada which makes a world of difference compared to the legal pressure a boss in the U.S faces. Hell I mean Vito came down to one murder in New York and got pinched for that and did time in Florence which is probably the worst prison in the states. He was afraid of getting for something in that states and all the murders he has supposedly had done have been out of there. So all I mean is while he was a good boss in terms of cosa nostra he also had a lot less risks than his American counterparts.

Imagine if the Genovese family was based in Montreal. I am sure they could drop bodies left and right too if they wanted. And besides for being such a great boss his son and dad where both killed and his brother and law kidnapped so that really isn't that impressive.

Only reason he got pinched was because Massino had a big fucking mouth.

Yea and Massino has a big fucking mouth cause he didn't want to spend the rest of his life in Florence alongside his buddy Vince. Which Massino would be facing after the legal ass kicking he got courtesy of the American government and the fbi and his own choices in life.

Vito was not at as much risk of the FBI while operatin in Canada and outside of U.S borders. He was free from the FBI monitering him as greatly and being able to use RICO against him. He was faced instead with Interpol and more importantly the Canadian government which is a lot less risky and punishing than the U.S. He had it much easier than someone like Massino trying to lead a mob family in New York

Why do people always give credit to Vito rather than to Nick? Was the old man ever really retired from the position of command (I mean, for real, not just "officially")?

yea he retired when the bullet entered his head as he stood in a totally open position in view of his window with minimal security surronding his easily trespassed property, while his mob family / blood were embroiled in a violent power stuggle with other vicious and violent capable mafia members. If I was a man who had been a don for that long and had lived through violent periods I would of invested in much more intense and tight security measures, but that is just me. He was a real criminal mastermind

Thank you good to be back again thank you

They were all "masterminds" there Look at Di Maulo who didn't even bother to protect himself even though everybody knew he would be target n.1 after Vito's return.

Exactly. Then again you know security costs money and these guys are pretty greedy might not want to spend dollars and invest in some real stuff.

Though I know they do get armored cars and weapons and vests. Only work so well though ;p

Vito was the man in mafia terms. His family would have NEVER been touched had he never went away to prison in America and that is GUARANTEED! That tells you enough about his power, that the power grab was put into motion when he was away. That was the only way they could get anyone to go along with the plot to begin with.

because, you know, the FBI totally never surveilled his movements, never cooperated with Canadian law enforcement and certainly didn't play a role in his extradition to the Untied States to stand trial for his role in the three captains hit, NO sir!



Yeah, instead of the FBI he had Canadian law enforcement to contend with, but, obviously they MUST be completely incompetent and inferior compared to the FBI, right? Who totally have a long illustrious career of NEVER, EVER fucking up. I mean, that could be the only POSSIBLE explanation for the "success" experienced by the Rizzuto family, right?

Do you even think about what you post? DO you just assume you know what you're talking about before making these asinine assumptions? That's a serious question. Enquiring minds want to know. Fucking baffling.

I'm going to admit right here that, yeah, it's annoying WHENEVER this subject comes up you get some half cocked american getting his undies all in a bunge because someone suggested something might have been done "better" elsewhere. Mostly because guys who do that are completely ignorant. Like, the fuck do you know about Canada other than: Hockey, cold, moose, and maple syrup? Probably dick all.

And I apologize to the majority of Americans on this board (and in general) who aren't dipshits. One bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch. <3

+1000 Slumpy.

Slumpy is on fire.

Well considering I have lived the last 10 years in Canada and half my famly is from here, I would assume I know a little more than maple syrup, hockey etc. But that is just me.

And yea if you think the RCMP or the Canadian legal system comes down nearly as hard on criminals or has the resources that the Americans use to fight LCN then you are seriously mistaken.

Of course the U.S and Canada share info and work together on projects. I never said they didn't. Hence why the U.S was able to extradite Vito to the U.S to face trial in the 3 capo murders?

I would agree that the punishments are certainly less stringent (some might argue more humane, but that's just me) it's not even open to debate that Canada is 'easier' on crime... But I disagree that they are any less effective at combating OC. You're wildly conflating. Just because they didn't take vito "down" (he's done time more than once in canada for crimes committed) sooner doesn't mean that they are inferior to the FBI by several orders of magnitude. More money doesn't necessarily equate to more effective. The truth is canada is a tiny nation of 32 million people. Our law enforcement is much smaller and thus requires much less funding.

it also doesn't mean that the Rizzuto family in general just wasn't good at what they did. Look at the history, no undercover infiltration, no rats/informants, etc... Now I'm not saying the "less than tough on crime" attitude of Canadian law doesn't make Canada an attractive location for organized crime but to simply toss the carefully cultivated secrecy of the Rizzuto family out the window because "its not america" is just stupid. Bottom line.

[quote
I would agree that the punishments are certainly less stringent (some might argue more humane, but that's just me) it's not even open to debate that Canada is 'easier' on crime... But I disagree that they are any less effective at combating OC. You're wildly conflating. Just because they didn't take vito "down" (he's done time more than once in canada for crimes committed) sooner doesn't mean that they are inferior to the FBI by several orders of magnitude. More money doesn't necessarily equate to more effective. The truth is canada is a tiny nation of 32 million people. Our law enforcement is much smaller and thus requires much less funding.

it also doesn't mean that the Rizzuto family in general just wasn't good at what they did. Look at the history, no undercover infiltration, no rats/informants, etc... Now I'm not saying the "less than tough on crime" attitude of Canadian law doesn't make Canada an attractive location for organized crime but to simply toss the carefully cultivated secrecy of the Rizzuto family out the window because "its not america" is just stupid. Bottom line.[/quote]








I never said the Rizzuto Family was not effective in terms of power and wealth it amassed in Canada and around the world. I mean funding that bridge in Sicily? That was huge and it showed the scope of influence they exerted around the globe. And yes I agree Canada has 32 million people and requires less law enforcement.

That being said without having a similar RICO law in place, Canada cannot even come close to inflicting the same sort of damage on OC groups that the FBI did with cases like the Commission one. Like I said earlier you don't think a OC family like the Genovese could not have had just as productive and little punishment if it had been them operating out of Montreal?

So yes to disagree with you. I do believe the Rizzuto family being based in CANADA has allowed them to get away with a lot more crimes and murders than they would ever get away with than say if they were based in New York.

That is just me. And I respect your opinion.

"In Canada the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions enforce rules and regulations that cumulatively are equivalent to RICO."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_I...valents_to_RICO

The difference between Canada and America is that America accumulated the necessary legislation into one bill for sake of ease (which is what Canada SHOULD do, but won't). That aside, Canada does have methods of prosecuting criminals whom are attached to a "criminal organization".

1. I agree that less stringent criminal justice make it easier for OC to establish itself and due to the comparatively "minimal punishments" (mandatory 10 years for murder 1 is still a lot of years of your life to lose as far as I'm concerned) does lend itself to preventing internal strife within the Organized Crime groups for non-violent offences... However...

2. They do still have to contend with law enforcement who can and do utilize laws that are virtually the same as those contained within the RICO act.

Montreal is such a throwback tot he old school

i acknowledge part of this post is not a response to the discussed topic of rizzuto power.

i think we have been taken in by the rizzuto myth. powerful yes, but not the almighty god the media and journalists have made him out to be. i would also point that much if not all media reports we read or hear about oc in canada (specially about toronto clans)is probably bullshit. good copy, sells papers etc. if that group who initially decided to work together, did not eventually turn on each other, rizzuto would have never regained his hold on Montreal.

born and raised in toronto (woodbridge) u tend to hears stories growing up of who is in control etc., from what i heard (could be bullshit) there are four powerful families in toronto
1. demaria clan
2. filiomengni clan
3. cammalleri family
4. campoli family

Honestly I think Rizzuto would have come back strong no matter if they turned on each other or not just because of his power. Yes they did make a power grab when he was away (they wouldn't dare do it with him there and alive) but to see people still getting clipped proves how much influence he had/has in the GTA. While I do think it would have taken him longer to gain control that it did when he came back, I still think it would have ended up with Desjardins/Montagna/Di Maulo all dead.

There is a certain amount of pageantry around Vito, especially now that he's dead. A powerful guy, yeah, but I agree that his reach may have been somewhat overestimated. Still, he's probably the most powerful mob figure in the last 15 years in North America.

I'd say the Sixth Family is a pretty accurate book, though, and a fantastic read for anyone wanting to know more.

Ive said this time and time again, the mafia is a business and money is power.

The FACT is that the Rizzuto family controlled a cocaine pipeline through the port of Montreal, a billion dollar enterprise over a decade.

Now like it or not this family earned more than the NY 5 combined. Purely through this pipeline. Not withstanding its monopoly on construction etc

So as much as people may not like it, when it comes to money, and hence power, the Rizzuto family (through drugs) dwarfs the NY 5.

Simple math guys. Like it or not.

Not so simple. The five families have tons more money than Dominicans and black street gangs, but exert no power in those parts of town. Paul Castellano made tons more money than John Gotti, but he ended up lying on the sidewalk in a pool of blood and Gotti became the boss.

VIOLENCE and FEAR control the underworld. The Rizzutos gained power through murder and held on to power through murder and fear. Don't try to deny the facts.

Massino didn't want the death penalty. Canada doesn't have the death penalty or RICO or the hellish prisons like the US. Does anyone in Canada ever get 25 years in prison with no parole for a non-violent charge like bookmaking? There are more rats in the US because of the legal system.

The Facts are this.

The Rizzuto family is PRIMARILY a drug (cocaine) business. They have a monopoly of the 2nd largest pipeline in Nth America.

The NY 5 have only small drug interests.

This IS the difference.

There is more money in drugs than all other illicit enterprises combined.

As stated money IS power, and the FACTS are the Rizzuto organization through its monopoly on the 2nd largest drug pipeline into the US DWARFS the NY 5 in terms of revenue.

Argue the point. Because those are the undisputed facts.

Like it or not.

Ten years for murder in Canada? LOL

Nicky Mouth is facing 17-25 years with no parole for taking bets and selling viagra. Imagine the number of murders in NYC if that was the mandatory sentence over here for murder one. RICO forced everyone in the US to go underground.

While Vito and Nick rose to power by murder by all means Vito was known more for keeping peace than to kill. Granted they were pretty ruthless getting to the top, but while Vito reigned over the GTA he wasn't quite known for being a ruthless individual. Only after he was sent away was when the major violence started and he continued when he came back home. Remember the papers up there were calling him a dead man walking when he re-entered the GTA.

He controlled ALL of the construction there and the drug pipeline. That is pretty good money. I'm not ready to say they made MORE than all 5 families combined but I am willing to say they made more money than most of the 5 NY families for sure.

As for the laws yes they are not as bad North of the border but that doesn't change the fact the RMCP continued to go after the family trying to keep him behind bars and couldn't do it.

Its easier to prosecute when bookies flip when facing 25 years or someone is facing 70 years for a car theft ring. How many guys in Canada would be flipping if facing life for nonviolent crimes or the death penalty?

First, while they may not be as big into the drug trade as the Rizzutos, and they don't necessarily need to be because of their diversification, the New York families are still are significant players in the drug trade. To say they have "small drug interests" isn't accurate. It's also important to remember there's quite a difference in the size of the geographic area the 5 NY families operate in within the extended NY metropolitan area and the greater Montreal area the Rizzutos operate in.

Second, drugs are usually the single biggest moneymaker but to say that they make more money than all the other rackets combined also isn't necessarily accurate.

Third, if you look at the history of the Rizzuto's drug trafficking operations, the majority of it isn't going into the U.S. but, rather, into Canada to be sold in Montreal and elsewhere. Whatever the Rizzutos have moved into New York, which would typically be in conjunction with the NY families anyway, isn't enough to qualify the claims you're making.

10 years mandatory minimum for, yet, Canada manages to have less murders by several orders of magnitude per capita. jail time, regardless of its length and severity, has never been a deterrent to crime or recidivism anywhere. So, nah, I don't think it'd be any better or worse than it currently is in the US.

Mafia murders take place regardless of the potential consequences and you could easily argue that the dwindling number of murders has more to do with the fact that there are just fewer italian-americans getting into organized crime than there were 30-40 years ago.

who are the five families gonna wholesale their drugs to?

this ain't the 1950s

If you had the reading ability above a 3rd grader, I would tell you to look at the DEA or NY/NY HIDTA reports about LCN drug trafficking, or LCN drug cases in New York over the past decade or so. But, since you don't, nevermind.

Very true, what you said Ivy. The population of NYC alone has more than double the population the Greater Montreal Area. That's a huge amount of demand. Any LCN dealer in the NY area probably has zero trouble unloading their product.

A lot of what goes into Montreal must invariably spread out into central Canada where there are no ports.

To clear a point of contention Ivy my understanding is a LARGE % of the coke imported goes to the US.

So a Montreal v NY comparison is far from accurate.

Gambino's and the Sicilian mafia are heavy in the drug trade..

When were there large scale NY LCN Coke or Heroin busts?

Not since the late 80's from memory.

Pills, weed there are convictions but 100+ kilo busts are well over.

IE there is little evidence the NY 5 are involved in large scale wholesale distribution of grade A narcotics.

There may be indervidual cases of small time dealing or movement in weed etc, but little evidence of wholesale movement of hard drugs.

Correct me if Im wrong?

Just go back a 6 months and you've got Cali's guy Lupoi in a huge coke conspiracy with N;drangheta. Cali and Nicchi going back and fourth between Sicily and NY, out of freindship? I doubt it...

Stand corrected.

You made a decent case though Sonny, since the Gambino brothers got locked up there wasn't too many big drug trafficking cases. The relationship between the Sicilians and the Gambino's was reignited (through Cali and Nicchi) in 2003 I believe according to the FBI and they know what's going on, as do the italian authorities.

IMO It's only a matter of time before Cali goes away on heavy drug charges, to be fair he's been very smart so far.

What tells me about his power is that when he came out of prison he pretty much killed all his enemies within a year.

Agreed and people are STILL killing for him.

You can also look at one of the recent cases involving the Gambino family's Trucchio crew. Among the allegations was that the crew had tens of thousands of kilos of cocaine, marijuana, and ecstasy pills in Queens, from the late 1980's to 2010, which brought in tens of millions of dollars.

You can read the December 2008 New York/New Jersey HIDTA Drug Threat Overview, March 2009 DEA Drug Threat Assessment" or the April 2009, drug market analysis by the National Drug Intelligence Center. The LCN is said to be involved in marijuana, heroin, cocaine, and ecstasy distribution at the wholesale, middle, and retail levels. The LCN was said to facilitate drug smuggling through several U.S. POE's, had very close working relationships with Italian organized crime, were increasingly working with Mexican DTO's, worked with mid-level and retail-level distribution groups and street gangs such as the Latin Kings, OMG's such as the Hells Angels, and independent dealers who distributed drugs in bars and clubs.

That said, I for one don't deny that the LCN has been marginalized in the drug trade. They were never in a position to control cocaine or marijuana. And their dominance over the heroin trade has been over for 30 years. But they are still significant players in the drug trade in New York.

I read 6th family couples yrs ago down myrtly beach every guy in it is dead today. that book is like 5yrs old and plays in my head like its was written in the 70tys. my thing is vito wasn't the boss he cut up the money and power evenly with the other 5 or so guys he was family with. his fathe got caught on tape cutting a pile of money evenly. they were all blood related or by marriage. like sal vitale testified vito said were all even if you want to make someone the capo make my father nick.