If Paul castellano was never killed.....

If Paul castellano was never killed(and let's say he was never jailed in his lifetime)how much money do you think he'd be worth? More than carlo? Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't he want to make the Gambino's a completely legitimate business or something? Do you think he would've achieved that goal eventually? I'm sure he made hundreds of millions of dollars over his life up until his death.

It's a tough call as far as comparing net worth. For one thing,you have to account for inflation,and Carlo became a Boss back in the late fifties,when you could buy a new car for less than a MacDonald's worker makes in a month today.
Also,even though Paulie did push the Family into more white collar type businesses ,he knew that no Mafia Family could ever be 100% legitimate.
The biggest income source for any Family is ,and always will be,gambling and loansharking. These are often referred to as the twin pillars of organized crime. Most soldiers are not capable of running any sophisticated businesses. Granted,there are a few exceptions,but for the most part,guys that get made make their living by gambling,shylocking,hijacking,dope,protection,etc.
For a Family to hold power and maintain respect from other Families,you need wealth and a ready army of enforcers and killers. So not only does the "blue collar" crime bring in a lot of cash,it also brings with it the type of guys that are more comfortable with splitting skulls than they are with splitting stocks

Great analysis and insight. Speaking of stock, how deep were the Gambino's in the stock market? I know carmine Lombardozzi was into it but did they make a lot of money from a white collar crime like that? It seems like a white collar crime like the gas scams were very profitable though. Anthony casso actually said that that was the biggest moneymaker. There are some gambling rings that rake in tens of millions a month I'm pretty sure. There's probably some that rake in tens of millions a week who knows. Tony salerno was big into that stuff. It says he was making 50 mil a year from gambling operations in the 50s. Idk how exaggerated that number is if it is at all.

My understanding is that the Gambino's were the first Family to realize the potential stock scams and that Lombardozzi was the point man. As time went on,all of the Five Families had guys in this lucrative income stream. The Families have always had huge rackets like the gas scams,construction bid rigging,union control,narcotics,etc. Most of these businesses are the province of Capos and above,and many are shared by several Families.
Lots of Captains and Bosses accumulate great wealth in legitimate business,which they fund with racket money that needs to be laundered.
Since Capos kick up a smaller percentage of their earnings than Soldiers do,they can get in on better "investment opportunities". Generally speaking,the longer a guy stays an Associate or Soldier,the more he lives from score to score.

"The biggest income source for any Family is ,and always will be,gambling and loansharking"


The biggest or the most consistent and long lasting? It seems that there have been very profitable, if temporary, rackets in the past like the (already mentioned) gas tax scam, drug wholesaling, and, of course, prohibition era bootlegging.

Also, if Paul Castellano was not killed he would have been convicted in the Commission Case (like the heads of all the other NYC families). I imagine that he would have chosen a more competent successor though.

They are doing the the "pump and dump" schemes on Wall Street.

Paul Castellano's family had generational money. While Paul branched out and owned quite a few legitimate businesses and corporations, there is no possible way to make the traditional rackets such as gambling, extortion, prostitution, hijacking and labor racketeering legitimate. He did however buy a Poultry company, a wholesale meat company (as Paul was actually a butcher by trade) and used a lot of his illegal money to set his kids up in legitimate businesses, in which his sons are extremely wealthy and live down in Pompano Beach, FL and own a chain of Pizza Restaurants, a wholesale pasta company as well as some meat and poultry companies. Check out this article from the NY Times on his son Joe back in 1999, quite an interesting read. The second article is about mobsters sons and their businesses in South Florida, with the Castellano brothers information on page 5 of the article:

1. http://www.nytimes.com/1999/01/31/magazine/the-don-is-done.html

2. http://www.browardpalmbeach.com/1998-07-02/news/the-miniacis-and-the-mafiosi/ (Page 5 talks about Big Paul's sons)

Here is the link to his pizza parlor chain and a chain of restaurants that sells ribs in South Florida as well as his pasta company, Oakland Pasta Co:

http://www.biglouies.com/

www.bobbyrubinos.com

http://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/Fort-Lauderdale/joseph-castellano-7441781.aspx

Paul would have died in prison as he would have been convicted in the commission case with the rest of the bosses. The FBI had hours of taped conversations from Big Paul's kitchen table, check out the book called Boss of Bosses by Joseph O'Brien and Andris Kurins:

http://www.amazon.com/Boss-Bosses-The-Paul-Castellano/dp/0440212294

but he was...deal with it.

C'mon man, $50 million a year he was taking home???? Fat chance, do you realize how much money that is tax free? Maybe the Genovese gambling operation "grossed" $50 million a year, but after paying off cops, paying out your numbers runners, paying out your bookmakers, paying off any other politicians for protection...the money goes fast. It's a business and there are tremendous expenses for those businesses. Most bookmakers "take home pay" or "net profit" is about 10% of the gross total of bets they take. For example, a guy who does $3 million a year bookmaking takes home roughly $300k. Where did you get that number, which source did you use?

More like 5%. the profit is off the juice. You get half a million on the Broncos and half on the Seahawks. The bets offset and the take home is 50k off the juice on the loser. Then you have to take into account the deadbeats.

Tommy Bilotti? I believe he was the underboss.

Bilotti was not the underboss, he may have been Castellano's driver and gopher, and may have even filled in briefly after Neil died, but he certainly was not going to be Big Paul's second in command for the long term future.

That movie with chazz plaminteri about Paul castellano. I believe he said a number in that ballpark. I know it's not the most reliable source obviously but it's just based on the movie. And I saw on the internet a few times that the Gambino's at their peak were making half a mill a year or something like that. So that's when Carlo was boss though. I wonder what he did with his money. Does anybody know? He was obviously loaded. It says that his net worth is around 600 or 700 mil I think or something like that. How accurate that is idk.

By biggest, I meant most important in terms of consistent day-to-day income. The revenues generated by the gambling/loansharking are what keeps the rank and file guys earning and kicking up. The money also provides a lot of clean graft for police and political payoffs to protect other rackets.
Many temporary scams do generate huge profits while they last,but gambling/shylocking is almost like Social Security for Mafia Families. They know that no matter how business changes,they have steady,guaranteed money coming in.

$600-$700 million net worth? Fat chance. I would believe that Carlo was in the neighborhood of $50 million "net worth" as his sons inherited most of his fortune. Remember, if the Gambino's were grossing $500 million per year, they had to make obscene playoffs to politicians, judges, cops, councilmen, selectmen, union officials etc. Their "net profit" or take home was in the ballpark of $50-$100 million per year which had to be whacked up amongst the administration, Capos, made soldiers etc.

Who knows if Bilotti would have been the long term underboss, but he replaced Dellacroce in that position, didn't he? The main reason it was brief was because he was whacked.

I think that Paul wanted to make Bilotti the permanent Underboss,partly because of how clueless and stupid that he (Paulie) was.Remember,if it wasn't for cousin Carlo,Paul would never have been Boss.
In his mind,he saw the parallel between him and Carlo as follows:
Carlo had a tough,feared,and respected guy as his Underboss,so I'll get me one,too.That way,I can keep the Gotti bunch in line.
Trouble was,Paul had no idea how little Bilotti was respected or feared by Gotti,(and many other Gambino guys as well).
Paul was still back in the old days when the Boss is the Boss,and made guys accepted whatever he said. The mafia at large was changing,not just the Gambinos,and as the older guys were fading away,so was the "Family comes first" mentality. The younger guys could give a sh*t about Carlo Gambino,and Omerta,and the "Sacred Oath". It became all about how much money they could make and how they could make it.
If Paul would have had a brain and a pair of b*lls,he would have whacked the Gotti crew,put a guy like Sammy G. in as underboss,and sat back with his silk robe,hideous mistress,and bags of money.

He would have been able to enjoy his penile implant for a few more months before getting life in the can.

Who was the richest mob guy that you guys can think of? I've been trying to find stuff about Jerry catena's wealth on the Internet but I really couldn't find too much. I saw some people say that he was insanely rich on here.

Al Capone's bootlegging operation was worth about 100 million dollars and that was in the 1920's
Granted, Scarface wouldn't have pocketed every dollar himself but he still would have had a colossal fortune................for all the good it did him in the end!

Someone on one of those Mobster documentaries said that Tommy Luchese was the best businessman in the history of the mafia, but I don't know if that means he was the wealthiest

Gonna have to agree with Big Al, it was 100 million per year nearly 100 years ago. Even if he was pocketing 20 per can you imagine what that was like? Babe Ruth was loaded and he made 125K a year in his heyday.

And for the thread topic, Paul would've died in prison like the rest of them. Seems like they had the most on him, and between the Commission case, the drug one, he was done.

Carlo Gambino was loaded. Paul must've been too but idk if he was to Carlo's extent. More money than god