The Bronx today

With many Italian areas in the Bronx gone, where in The Bronx do they operate today?

I like you a lot, Nicky. You're a respectful kid. But I swear, sometimes I think you just won't be happy unless you hear that the immigration laws have changed, and that the Bronx and Brooklyn and East Harlem look like they did fifty years ago, when the areas were loaded with Italians.

There are still a couple clubs on the far east end of Westchester Avenue. QD still holds court over by the Pelham Bay train station and Stevie still has his headquarters not too far from there. But these places just aren't hangouts anymore. The numbers stores are pretty much all gone, the social clubs are pretty much all gone, and most of the heavy guys live in the suburbs. Hell, other than Patsy's place, which is a legitimate restaurant (and a very good one), you can't even find them on Arthur Avenue anymore. And if that doesn't tell you everything you need to know, then you'll never get it.

They're still around, they're still earning, and they're gonna be around for a long time because people will always want to gamble and borrow money. But don't look for the old Goodfellas and Donnie Brasco type hangouts to ever pop up in the Bronx again. It's never going to happen because it brings too much heat. End of story.

I operate in the Bronx, its New York.

You're from the Bronx? What part?

I'm not from The Bronx, I just said I operate out there.

is this what you call humor?

So PB is it for the most part only Genovese and Luchesse in the Bronx today?

North of Jerome Ave is where I spend most of my time.

Pizza the nebrsska steakhouse still were artie nigro held court the old guy table fould al bruno guilty an handed down the death sentence.an some guys met there to get made.

Nebraska steakhouse on stone street lower Manhatten ?

I still go there alot . It's Russian or Eastern European run tho, great food, alot of gamblers

Back in day u could get a BJ upstairs lol

They have that italian restaurant next door called Ancora which IMO

Is the best non italian run italian restaurant on NYC

Basicaly Nicky, there's a small Gambino contingent but its real spread out, and a teeny bit of Bonnano guys left around, Btw Glad to see you back PB it's been a while I hope all is well!

I would say three quarters of the"Bronx" guys live in the burbs particularly Westcester which is where I live currently, there's also a difference between the handful of guys that are Westchester basedd and most of the rest who live here, the remaining Italians in the Bronx are like PB said, all in a strip of slowly changing neighborhoods along the east shore, from Throggs Neck in the south to Pelham Bay in the north, Morris parks going, Pelham Parkways already gone, Belmonts long gone

I have never been to the Bronx so my only exposure to it is from movies which depict it as a decrepid area ie: Ft Apache Bronx, A Bronx tale Etc, and I know that they do not accurately depict the Bronx as it is today. I just wonder if all or most of it has been redeveloped and cleaned up. Looking at Google maps, it actually looks like a pretty nice place

today you don't need to have an italian ghetto to have italian mobs.

ironically the genovese are the strongest family this side of the ocean and yet their based in the least italian borough.

Manhattan is the least Italian borough Luan, as I said the Eastern Bronx as well as Woodlawn nd Riverdalle are still largely white and ethnic but its still in flux, the rest is some of the worst ghettos in New York City it's a diverse place, it hasn't yet been gentrified like large areas of Manhattan and parts of Brooklyn, also the Genovese are based out of the Bronx but allot of there guys live in Westchester County which is just north of the Boogie Down and whoms ethnic Italian population is over 20 percent, comparable to a slightly more diverse Staten Island

Thought over 40 percent of Staten Island was Italian

Sons of Italy website says somewhere in the high 30's but your basically right Joe, I retract that more like Long Island then

How do you figure that, LK?

Manhattan is, by far, the least Italian borough today; and the Westside powerbase is firmly in the Bronx and Westchester. Although I guess I get your point. The Italian population here in the Bronx is dwindling, and yet both the Westside and the Luccheses are firmly entrenched here. So if that's the paradox you were referring to, I tend to agree with you.


Oops, it looks like Tony the Kid beat me to the punch about Manhattan being the least Italian borough.

Re Woodlawn: Woodlawn is remarkable, Tony. It's the only neighborhood in the Bronx that hasn't changed at all during my lifetime. If anything, it's even more Irish today than it was thirty or forty years ago. The 10470 zip code is still something like 90 percent non-hispanic white. I'm not posting that out of any kind of bigotry, I'm just stating a fact that you can easily look up in the 2010 census.

Everyone here knows that I'm Italian American, so just know that I say this with awe, not as a criticism: The Irish are too thick headed to succumb to White Flight. If you think I'm exaggerating, just take a ride up to Katonah Avenue, near the Yonkers line. The neighborhood looks exactly the same today as it did when I was a kid. Some of the bars from back then are even still in business, and I'm almost 54 years old. It's remarkable (and inspiring) that at least one of the old European immigrant groups has hung on to a neighborhood like that.

That's interesting because it is the exact same situation here in Chicago with a neighborhood called Canaryville. It is really, really an aberration, with no explanation for its existence except what you mention: Absolute stubbornness. It's on the South Side and is full of 5,000 Irish roughnecks virtually unchanged for a century and a half while most of the neighborhoods around it have changed drmatically.

What a lot of the posters who like to romanticize the mob pretend inner city "Italian" neighborhoods with far less than 10 percent Italians in them still are, Canaryville actually is: A white ethnic neighborhood that has in a sense just been frozen in time.

Very odd, and funny it's the same in NY.

Interesting, Jonny. And that's the word I was looking for when describing Woodlawn: It's an aberration. And yeah, it's a stubbornness that I actually admire the Irish for having.

Because let's be honest, when the neighborhoods started to turn Black and Latino, the Italians were the first to run to the suburbs (here in New York, anyway). But like a always say, Italian Americans gentrifying is a good thing. It means we're moving up in the world. But still, you do get sentimental for the old neighborhoods at times. And it's all the more reason to respect the Irish for hanging on to a neighborhood or two .

It's an odd place. Virtually no good restaurants, no restaurants of note at all to speak of... just a few bars. Decent, tiny houses.

It's probably not nearly as bad now, but it definitely has the air of a place where you would not be surprised to get a rock thrown at your head if they didn't like the look of you.

I was in NY once and had a really funny experience with a cab driver. He was Puerto Rican. H was talking about growing up in NY in the 70s. He said "Yeah... you didn't go into the Irish neighborhoods. They would kick your ass. They thought we were stealing their stuff." Then he thought about it for a sec and burst out laughing and said "We were!"

There are still neighborhoods with Italian character, even dominantally Italian character, but nothing like Canaryville, or even close, where it is still really an out and out Italian neighborhood. That really is an Irish neighborhood. Crazy.

Used work for the Wakefield Post Office around 1999. Only lasted a year. Awful job, for the most part.

Wakefield, apparently, was once largely Italian. Most of the Postal workers were still Italian and many, many old timers in the neighborhood were Italian. On White Plains road there was a storefront simply called "Espresso". It never got any mail and was always closed. One day I saw it open, full of old Italian guys. The clerks were talking about a guy named "Mongo" who used to run the neighborhood.

Also did express mail on Sundays in Woodlawn. Love that neighborhood. Katonah and McClean are like an Irish village.

Bronx is probably my favorite borough. The topography is really interesting, lots of hills and winding streets. The Bronx River. Just a cool place, though I wasn't in the really bad part or during the really bad years.

somebody in canaryville is gonna beat the wrong person up on some drunk shit

then get the whole neighborhood shot the fuck up

this new generation ain't smart enough to just stay outta canaryville

I agree no nose about Canaryville. Never been there, it borders Bridgeport right? What you said about Canaryville and what PB said about Woodlawn could be said about Mt Greenwood. Still very Irish, just saw an article ranking it the 4th most Irish neighborhood in the country.

I've seen black people there. Usually young people hanging with their inner city white delinquent counterparts.

The only place I find frightening in Canaryville is Kelly's. if you are not from that neighborhood, I would not go into tht bar.

Yeah it's south of Bridgeport till around 47th St.

True about Mt Greenwood and Beverly but that feels more suburban to me.

I don't think Mt Greenwood has a suburban feel. Yeah places like Canaryville are more urban but still has the same kind of feel.

But in terms of this discussion, PizzaBoy was talking about what I presume to be a hardcore inner-city neighborhood that has against all odds remained almost entirely Irish.

Mt. Greenwood and Beverly are extremely far from the city center. I don't know NY that well but I would imagine that would be equivalent to a really far-off neighborhood in Queens or Staten Island, almost out of the city.

Canaryville is not only far closer to the city center, it's surrounded by Bronzeville (or more accurately Fuller Park, then what used to be the Robert Taylor homes, then Bronzeville, but they are more or less the same these days) on one side and Back of the Yards, which is essentially a war zone, on the other. Yet it carries on, undeterred.

I wouldn't describe the existence of Mt. Greenwood or Beverly as really *that* surprising, but I think by any measure the fact that Canaryville is still essentially unchanged is extremely surprising.

Is Campos running Sal Locascio's old crew?

Mt Greenwood/ Beverly are not even 5 minutes from bad areas. Beverly borders one of the bad areas.

He's a figurehead, if that, until Richie Martino comes home next summer. But for obvious reasons, Richie is close to the kid. So he'll be okay.

Near the old A&M bakery, right?

And yes, Wakefield had loads of Italians back then, but it wasn't a "stronghold" like Belmont or Pelham Bay. But Carpenter Avenue, from the hospital all the way up to the Mount Vernon line, was full of private houses owned by Italians. Today that area is 90 percent Haitian and Jamaican. You can't even walk the steets at night.

Not sure about "Mongo," unless they mean Big Mike. He had a few numbers stores in that neighborhood that he ran for the Westside.


That's correct, Jonny. Although Woodlawn is actually on the Yonkers line, it's still clearly the Bronx. But it's a little more middle class than the area you described in Chicago. Lots of families and private houses.

Well, it's subjective I guess. I haven't spent all that much time in those neighborhoods but where I've been they pretty much feel like your typical stripmall laden lower-average middle class suburb. But, to each their own.

Thanks for the info, it sounds about right considering he'll have done 9 years and made stupid amounts of money for the family, it's the least the Administration could do.

I would retire if i was him, he has to be one of the richest mobsters alive. Sally Loc had the right idea.

Good thread, really enjoyed reading this some great posts from PB.

I'm sure there was a Cagney flick set in Canaryville, 'Angels With Dirty Faces' was set in HK. Which one was Canaryville?

I got lucky, Sean. We all know that I'm not too bright, but I am passionate about my hometown .

Never heard that but "Shameless," the TV show is set there, though it is actually filmed (when they film in Chicago and not LA) in Lawndale, which is a black neighborhood nearby. I don't know why. Must just look more like what they want.

Your sharp enough PB I've been around this site long enough to know that. And when it comes to the Bronx your the damn oracle of the BB far as I'm concerned.

It’s really a different place. It is hard-core inner city, but people describe it as a white ghetto, and that’s not really the truth. I doubt the people there, most of them anyway, make much money, but the lawns and houses are very well kept for the most part and the people are pretty clean cut looking. Totally family oriented. At least the adults. The kids from what I’ve seen tend to be clad head to foot in black Sox gear. In any event, there is not much crime there at all, including no murders in at least five years, while the several of the surrounding areas are war zones.