Pat Marcy and Fred Roti made men?

Other than the FBI's allegations, is there any evidence that they were made men? Were they just political fixers or did they commit other crimes? Did they belong to a crew or did they have their own crews?

Definitely made. Others may know better, but I believe didn't have their own crews in the traditional sense.

I'm not sure that their is a whole lot, if any evidence of them being made but I would bet just about anything that they were. There political power was more power than even being made anyways. The fact that they were potentially made men on top of being political power houses in Chicago is power enough. I believe they were definitely made. I've always been very fascinated with Pat Marcy, or as I would rather call him; Pasquale Marchone.

pretty sure Marcy held his own court as well as had his own soldiers/political cogs under him. From what I understand he was closely aligned with Murray Humpheys and the non-Italian crew. I read an article about when Gus Alex inherited the crew from Humphreys that he was heard complaining to one of the bosses about needing more help with the political fixing and that Marcy had recently offered to give him more backing now that he was the guy in charge of the non-Italian crew.

I find Marcy incredibly fascinating. There is very little doubt in my mind that he was made.

Mulberry, Marcy was a made man in the Outfit. He was always direct with the Top Bosses. He had a small crew under him who helped deliver money. One such guy was a fellow named Chris Cardi who was one of his soldiers. Cardi was Willie Messino's nephew.

Roti was a High Level Associate who took orders from Marcy.

Chicago, Cardi was eventually knocked down...was he not?

Yes, what happened was that Cardi didn't feel he was being paid enough to to his job working in Marcy's Crew. He complained about it to Willie. Willie then asked Cerone's permission if he could have Cardi work for him as a juice Collector in the Elmwood Park Crew. Jack agreed and Cardi then went to work under Willie in his juice crew.

Well, Cardi still wasn't satisfied after awhile and was in no position to move up and get made to run his own Franchise.
In Chicago, that took years to happen.

Cardi became more impatient and started to deal directly in drugs on the side. It wasn't long before Cardi got into trouble and had to go to prison for a couple years. It was his first offense.

Two days after Cardi got out of jail, He was at his wife's hot dog place that she ran to make money while he was gone. Two Guys entered the joint wearing ski masks and shot Cardi to death.

It was an Outfit lesson. Do not deal directly in drugs and do not do anything on the side without permission from your Boss. They actualy let Cardi do his short time and then they killed him.

Cerone gave the order. There was nothing Willie could do to save his nephew.

What year was that...'75?

I believe it was around '74. What made it even worse for Willie, was that he was in Jail at this time.
Willie went to jail in 1970. Then, 4 years later, his nephew got killed AFTER the Outfit let him serve his short time in jail.
Welcome to the real world of the Mafia, folks.

My co-worker has a great story about Willie and Jack. She was a hair dresser that used to do manicures for Jack. Stand by while I get the details tomorrow. Just out of curiosity, Chicago do you think Jack was as big as a mope as the ANP people think? I can't imagine someone went to the heights under Joey O as he did and was a complete idiot.

No, Jack was very sharp and was quite knowledgeable about Gambling in particular. He was smart enough to survive Giancana.

Jack was not real popular because he was a cheapskate and didn't treat his men as well as Giancana or Auippa. However, that being said, Jack was a very capable Boss.

The people at ANP are a little crazy and always have some ulterior motive for their comments about DiFronzo and Cerone.

Hell no, Jackie Cerone was as fuckin gangster as they come. He was just a back stabbing prick who didn't treat his underlings with much respect, bedded other guys wives, and had a bit of a little man's complex. But he was far from a mope. He might not have been as tough as Moe Giancana, but no one was. Cerone was a very tough, very feared boss.

Do you guys think he would have been knocked down by Joey O if not for Joe B? Does the lawyer have any sway these days or is he just living by the name?

The lawyer isn't a gangster by any means. But I'm sure he helps them out as best he can.

Yes, cerone would have beeb killed had It not been for jb.

Accardo saved Cerone from being killed by Giancana many times.

Joey Auippa would have never made any kind of move against Cerone even after Accardo was gone. There would be no reason for it and it's a complete lie created by Fosco to try and make Cerone look bad.

Fosco operates with a motive. He is not objective and is a con man.

He says those things to try and hurt Jack Cerone Jr. who Fosco feels cheated him.

You can never trust an Organized Crime source who HAS A MOTIVE.

Fosco is a moron, and any redeeming qualities he may possess are quickly snuffed out by his ridiculous fanboy persona.

I was always amused by that ANP stuff about Aiuppa planning to kill Cerone..For what? Why? Cerone was terminally ill when he got out of the joint and certainly was in no position to try to arm his former underlings I.e. Johnny and Joey A..What a bullshit story. Cerone lived like a week outside before he died. I think Aiuppa only lived another year too

The Outfit made some of their pols--especially those who came from Taylor street who were thugs in their youth. The 1st Ward "apparatus" was not exactly a crew, but at one time there is no question that it was the most powerful entity in the Outfit. The Outfit also made certain guys who were entrusted with extremely sensitive and discrete information. By this I mean low-profile, relatively unknown people who passed important messages between bosses, or between bosses and pols. The extent of "sleepers" has been overstated in Outfit discussions, but think of a sleeper as a made guy who is very trusted and very knowledgeable who has little involvement in actual street rackets, but who can be called upon at any time. Greedy P was made relatively late in life to function in this capacity.

Well said and very true. The decline of the First Ward in many ways corresponds with the decline of the Outfit..