Saviano: "The cocaine? We must legalize it »

http://www.corriere.it/cultura/13_aprile...a004da2ea.shtml


Saviano: "The cocaine? We must legalize it »
And reveals: "In the U.S., I lived under a false identity"

The author of "Zero Zero Zero": "From the narcos money to the banks'

In the thanks that closes his latest book, Zero Zero Zero, Roberto Saviano mentions such David Dannon "that for six months, he make me fells to be another person, free and almost happy." Since the autumn of 2006, when the success of Gomorrah has become his malediction, Saviano living under police protection. Protection which is a prison, because it precludes any possibility of living a normal life, eating a pizza, watch a match at the stadium, starting a family. David Dannon is none other than the same Saviano, the identity that the writer has
put in six months of true life that is granted in the United States: "I ​​was able to attend parties, go to university, walk down the street without fear - says now -. These days have been important to remember that a freedom is possible "

THE INVESTIGATION - In the United States Saviano began to investigate the cocaine universe . An investigation that soon for him has turned into an obsession: "I have continued to store information and material on cocaine. I came to compose word 600 pages, over 800 for a book. Then we had to cut. But I have had to rip out of hand, I would have continued to try, try, try. "The truth is reflected on the bottom of the abyss. Saviano digs, brings to light, and connects the facts. Through the alkaloid of the cocaine reads the world. The mechanism of
financial markets and the economic strategies of countries, multinational corporations and the banks, they remain entangled in the web of the drug: "The coke is the goods of the goods, drug trafficking is the largest company in the world - he explains -. Antonio Maria Costa, head of the United Nations drug office, in 2008, said: the income of drug trafficking have served to save many of the European banks. No one has denied it. The reality is that Europe is perfect for recycling. The euro, the cut from 500 in particular, is the narco currency
par excellence. "

LEGALIZATION - For Saviano drug trafficking can be defeated in only one way: "Legalization is the only way - says -. Faced with the billions that cocaine moves in the world there is no alternative. Sure it has a social cost important, but we must consider that we are talking about a round of illegal business that exceeds 300 billion in revenue and pollutes the entire world economy. "Zero Zero Zero, to be precise Triple Cero, was the nickname given to Salvatore Mancuso, head of the Colombian paramilitaries (AUC) and big piece of the drug world.

The book tells his story and that of the main Colombian and Mexican drug traffickers, we reconstruct the battles between the cartels and the incredible ferocity of killers are able to torture the DEA agent Kiki Camarena, thrusting a steel screw in the skull, then screwed with sadism until he lost consciousness from the pain. Written as a travel diary at the end of human misery, Zero Zero Zero tells the thousand faces of criminal
violence, the innocent victims, torture, mutilation inflicted on those who rebel.


THE PRISON OF ESCORT - 2310 days, 38 thousand hours. Saviano brings the bill of his "imprisonment" with anguish that emerges from many of the pages of his latest book. "When can I say free? - Sighs - Who knows, maybe when the process will end with two of the most notorious boss of the Camorra. "In the meantime, he lives his work as a mission. And is little wonder that after seven years the focus on the issues reported with Gomorrah is diminished. "The fault is of the media," he says, "as well as politics. In the last election campaign no one has talked about the mafia. "He continues to do so. In fact it never stopped, even if, at some point, perhaps he would have agreed. "Now I spend my time to clear the check boxes on the calendar. Many live my own condition, you should break up with the need for military defense, and to feel safe people regardless of what they do, from what they say or write. "

I can understand the logic, but not agree with it. From the moral point of view legalizing it is just wrong. Why not legalize murder for hire as well then?

Because one involves a crime against the rights of others (ie the right to live), and one is victimless affair where someone chooses to put a chemical in their body.

300 billions in revenue? even all the drugs combined arent even close to
coke traffick in the biggest market europe and the states is 25 billions at most

I just picked up Saviano's book GOMORRAH. About the Camorra obviously...hope it's good

Originally Posted By: southend

I just picked up Saviano's book GOMORRAH. About the Camorra obviously...hope it's good

About time.

Good? It is.

Once you're done with it check Matteo Garrone's movie adaptation.

I liked the book, but the movie seemed boring to me. In my opinion, it just doesn't show the power of the camorra, they seem just like small-time criminals in the movie, even though ferocious ones.

At exactly the 15:00 mark, can anyone tell me the name of the song the boys are dancing around to? Thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meJguYpqSBM

Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011

doesn't show the power of the camorra

How so?

"Ma si vene stasera" - Alessio
"La Nostra Storia" - Raffaello
"Brava gente" - Nino d'Angelo
"Must Pray" - Pieter Vercampt
"Macchina 50" - Rosario Miraggio
"Ragione e sentimento" - Maria Nazionale
"Un giornio d'Amore" - Daniele Stefani
"Sadness (Part 1)" - Enigma
"Esageratamente" - Anthony
"O' schiavo e o' re" - Nino d'Angelo
"Xiao Cheng Gu Shi" - Teresa Teng
"Viento 'e mare (feat. Maria Nazionale)" - Matthew Herbert
"L'amica di mia moglie" - Tommy Riccio
"Finchè 'o sole me vo'" - Maria Nazionale
"Herculaneum" - Robert Del Naja

Thanks, sittite, but I've looked thru the soundtrack and it's not any of those.
I'm wondering if someone listens to the song and recognizes it for me.

Thanks for posting i didn't know this was on youtube and was going to buy it.

I was looking through some of the songs and i'm probably wrong but is this the song? Starting at about 1:30 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os6tKeV2wAU

That one's wrong i found it lol about 40 seconds - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktJPlWf1yh4

Ah YES! Finally. Thank you so much Camarel!!!!!

Apologies to sittite, it was on the soundtrack after all.

No problem. Repayment for the Gomorrah link

This is why I'm against legalizing marijuana. After that, we'll have this kind of nonsense - people advocating for the legalization of hard drugs. Look at the damage legalized alcohol and tobacco do to society. Can you imagine what legalized cocaine, heroin, or meth would do?

time ago I read an article that spoke of certain places where, for example, heroin addicts, could take drugs, assisted by medical personnel after used syringes were delivered to doctors so that if there was the overdose the drug addict was saved , and not were left around used syringes, which could contain various diseases including HIV.
I support the legalization of cocaine but not other drugs, or because the cocaine generates too much money, that legalizing it could take a great resource for organized crime.
I also support the legalization of prostitution and gambling

I thought organized crime is considered a "bad" thing for the very reason they deal in illegal and immoral things like drugs, prostitution etc (apart from murder). If we legalize it, that ruins the whole point to fight it, it's as if we just declared them "legitimate businessmen". Also, I think morality is a very important thing, legalizing prostitution is just a surrender to the corruption of society, the often used "freedom" argument doesn't really justify it.
It's good though that at least nobody is for legalizing violent crimes like murder, because somebody might think that them staying illegal stands in the way of somebody's "freedom" too.

Dwalin2011, morality is a good thing, but pragmatism is much better.
By legalizing prostitution are removed the girls from the streets, removing a racket criminal organizations, same thing for gambling, and the legalization of soft drugs. So the state can get more money by taxing these activities so-called'' vicious''. And lower the taxes imposed on all citizens without distinction. Then if anyone is puritan, may very well,don't fuck with the whores ,don't gamble, don't drink alcohol or coffee.

But what's the point of taking rackets away from crime if we legalize most of them? If we legalize drugs, prostitution and gambling, then what remains apart from murder? Fraud and extortion? I don't think that legalizing things that are immoral and can lead to people's deaths like drugs just to fight financial crimes is worth it.
And cocaine isn't exactly a "soft" drug.

By the way, what's wrong with coffee? I don't drink it, but not because I think it's immoral, I just don't like the taste.

Originally Posted By: furio_from_naples

time ago I read an article that spoke of certain places where, for example, heroin addicts, could take drugs, assisted by medical personnel after used syringes were delivered to doctors so that if there was the overdose the drug addict was saved , and not were left around used syringes, which could contain various diseases including HIV...

As far as Italy is concern they did what you're saying in Turin (Italy's Heroin Capital in the '80s and '90s), but the doctors weren't just giving them drugs...they were slowly bringing them to use safer and non-lethal whatever - whatever to make them off and eventually most of those addicts recovered. It took a while but a promising percentage did.

Im against legalizing any drugs. Including weed. I also think gambling should stay illegal. Including lottery, make it illegal again.

What do you think these criminal groups are gonna do when weed and gambling is legalized? Id rather the criminals capitalize on these minor vices like gambling and weed, than get desperate and resort to stick ups and shit

Dwalin2011 there I did with you, but with being Puritan in general. Morality exacerbated at best, has produced only damage. With Prohibitionism created the modern mafia, were born with cocaine are born the cartels of Medellin cali, the farc of Salvatore Mancuso and Mexican cartels.
What would these criminal organizations, if were legalized marijuana, cocaine, prostitution and gambling; passarebbero to another, but in a gesture of how the country was going to take the important sources of income.
Of course there will be a social cost, but serebbe equal to that caused by tobacco or alcohol from.
And for those who likens legalizazzione of soft drugs, gambling, etc. to legalize murder, I say, and it is my opinion that those who take drugs do so for various reasons: curiosity, desire to escape from reality, etc. and it is their right and should be respected. while the murder you violate the right of a person to life, which is why it can not be legalized

If you are talking only about soft drugs, it's another discourse (even though I am against legalizing any king of drugs), but with hard drugs it's just dangerous for people's lives, and it's not like they make a conscious decision to kill themselves. People very often start using them out of stupidity or because of being naive, and later realize what the consequences will be, and would like very much to stop, but are not able any more, having become addicted.
Also, it shouldn't be just about personal rights, people should also think what their relatives feel, seeing them becoming addicted.

Figures coming from a mormon.

Yeah, The movie shows what it's like for youngsters living in the area's like Scampia, Secondigliano, Marianella e.t.c. That's truly what life is like for them, it's not glamorous but rough and tough. I agree with you about not showing the power of the Camorra, if anything, the film was about the brutal side to it. Good film though and by all means read that book, it's like liquid gold when talking about the Camorra. It actually was the first book that inspired me to look into Organized crime more deeply, before that I thought of the Mafia in a totally different and naive way.

One doesn't need to be Mormon to see what I'm saying is true.

we accepted the serious social damage products from alcohol and tobacco and we accept them good or bad, what changes Ivy, if we want to legalize marijuana and cocaine? this is just talking about drugs. There will be in addition to the Anonymous Alcoholics , the Cocaine Addicts Anonymous

No way you can legalize powders. NO WAY!!! Addiction rates will explode. Especially in the U.S. If you don't know anybody to get powders from, you cant use powders. Make them available at local stores...now EVERYONE knows where to score. Bad idea. Pot...no problem.

this is the false argument that is so often used. the legality of harder drugs such as heroin or cocaine has no bearing whatsoever on the mind of somebody who wishes to use them, period. ask anybody who has ever struggled with addiction, and they will tell you the same thing. as far as the availabilty, not hard to find at all, no matter where you are. the weird idea that we can somehow legislate morality, or that simply having a law in place will prevent people from using whatever chemicals they please, has been proven to be both false and ineffective as far back as we can remember. the costs to society are already here, and amplifying the problem by throwing boatloads of money towards an impossible enforcement does nothing but further strain us finacially, amplifying the original problem.

there are those on here who are going to argue that we should just execute everyone involved to fix the problem, but that amounts to nothing more than a barbaric copout that could be stupidly applied to any problem that requires hard work to fix and resolve. to quote ron paul "how many people on here would start using heroin if it was legal?" there are always going to be a few dummies, but my guess is not many.

But it's not like if drugs are legalized, the former drug dealers stop being criminals. They will find other sources of income. They won't change their criminal mentality just because their former illegal activity is legalized. If they won't kill for drugs anymore, they will kill during conflicts in other "businesses".

there is some truth to this, but i would say more on the high end like the cartels and such. as for the average "corna boy", i think its got alot to do with just being lazy, as opposed to having a hardcore criminal mentality. street level drug dealing is a way to make fast cash, plain and simple. in a scenario where are drugs are legal and readily availabe(not advocating for heroin to be sold at 7-11 by the way) its doubtful that all of these guys are just going to become bank robbers, kidnappers, ect. some of them might actually go out and work because there will no longer be a revenue stream available that requires little to no effort.

I understand your rationale. However, here in ATL, if you don't know where to get "H", you are not going to get any. In Asbury Park, NJ, all you have to do is get off the train and ask the black guy in the hoodie down the block...done deal. Not so easy in non-urban areas outside of NYC, Chi.; Detroit, Balt.; etc. Those places have open air drug markets, most areas do not. That was my only point. Limited access creates limitations. Open access to all areas will create a situation where the drug can easily be obtained. Coke, meth; H are all too addictive. Create too many problems in the users lives. Same with booze. But, pot is another story. Aside from the munchies and watching too much T.V., there are not to many downsides to its use.

Because that's exactly how especially the Camorra, but also the Sacra Corona Unita and -as strange as it may sound- the Ndrangheta comes across. A lot of members of those groups -not all- look and behave as guys who came from the slums, even though they may be of immense wealth. A lot of them even live in and operate from small appartment flats or houses right in the slums.

This is the first chapter of the new Saviano's Book ZeroZeroZero,I have tryied to translate with the best of myknowledge of English, if I made any mistakes,report it to me.



Using the coke the person sitting next to you now in the train and took it to wake up this morning and the driver behind the wheel of the bus that brings you home,because he wants to do overtime without feeling cramps in the neck. Uses coca who you closer to you. If it is not your father or mother, if it
your brother, then it is your son.
If it is not your son, it's your boss. Or his secretary pulls only on Saturdays to have fun. If it is not your boss, is his wife who does, to let go. If it is not his wife is his mistress, who gives it to him instead of earrings and better than diamonds.
If they are not, it is the truck driver who makes getting tons of coffee in the cafes of your city and would not be able to hold all those hours on the motorway without coca. If he is not, it is the nurse who is changing the catheter to your grandfather and the coke makes everything seem lighter, even the nights. And if not him, is the house painter who is re-painting the room of your girl, who started for curiosity and then it was found to make debts. Who uses it is there with you. It is the police officer who is going to stop you, sniff from years and all they remember and write it in anonymous letters that they send to the officershoping that the suspend before he does crap.
If he is not, it is the surgeon who is waking up now to operate your aunt and with Ccoke can open up to six people in a
day, or the lawyer from where you have to go for a divorce.
It is the judge who will decide on your civil case and does not consider this a vice, but a helping hand to enjoy life. It is the cashier who is giving you the lottery ticket that you hope will change your destiny. It's the cabinetmaker who you are mounting a piece of furniture that took you a month's salary. If he is not, to use it is the fitter came to your house to put on the Ikea wardrobe, which alone would not know to assemble.And not he, is the building manager of your building is going to buzz you. It is an electrician, just what is now trying to move the taken in the bedroom. Or the singer you're listening to relax. Uses coke pastor, you're going to ask if you can cresimarti because you baptize your nephew, and is amazed that you do not he still has taken the sacrament. Are the waiters who serve you at the wedding next Saturday, if not not be able tohave so much energy in those legs for hours.
If they are not, it is the assessor who has just approved the new pedestrian islands, and give it him free coke in exchange for favors. The use valet parking, which was now the joy only when sniffing.
It is the architect who put forward your cottage holiday, makes use of the postman delivered the letter to you with your new ATM. If it is not him, is the girl in the call center, which will respond with shrill voice and asks what can help. Gaiety, the same as each call is
effect of white powder.
If it is not her, it is the researcher who is now sitting on the right of the professor and expects to get the exam. The coke has unnerved. It is the physiotherapist that is trying to put into place the knee to him instead the coke makes it sociable. It is the attacker who uses it, the one who scored a goal ruining the bet you were winning a few minutes left in the game. Use the coke prostitute, which you go before returning home, when you have to take it out because you can not take more.
She takes the coke for no longer see whoever is in front, behind, above, below. Takes it the gigolo that have gifted you for your fifty. You and him. The coke gives him the feeling of being the most male of all.
Uses coke the sparring partner with whom you work out in the ring to try to lose weight. If he is not him that uses it, it is your daughter's riding instructor, psychologist where go your wife.
Uses coke the best friend of your husband, the one you that courting for years, and that never liked. If he is not him, is the principal of your school. sniff coke the janitor. The real estate agent who is doing late now that you were able to get rid to see the apartment. Makes use of the security guard, the one that still has the carryover when everyone shave their hair.
If isn't him
, is the notary where you never want to go back, which uses coke for not thinking of alimony to give to the wives that he left.
If he is not him, it is the driver swearing against the traffic, but then goes back cheerfully. If he is not him, it uses the engineer who you are forced to invite home
maybe because him could helps you to make a step of his career. Is the traffic cop that is making you a fine and while talking sweat a lot even though it is winter.
Or is it the washer with sunken eyes, he can buy it by borrowing, or is that guy who gorges on flyers cars five
at a time. It is the politician who promised you a business license, who you sent in parliament with the votes of your and your family and is always nervous.
It is the teacher who kicked you out by an exam at the first hesitation.Or is the oncologist from which you're going to talk, they told you to be the best and hope can save you. He,
when he sniff, feels omnipotent. Or is it the gynecologist who is forgetting to throw the cigarette before entering the room and visit your wife that has the first labor pains. Is your brother in law who is never happy, is the boyfriend of your daughter that instead it always is. If they are not, then it's fishmonger that system swordfish in full view, or is
the gas station guy, which stain to the gasoline out of the car. Sniff to feel young, but fails to insert in its place now even the gun of distributor
Or is it the local doctor that you know for years and makes you enter before without queuing at Christmas because you know what to give him. The the doorman of your building, but if he does not use it then it is using the teacher giving repetitions to your children, the piano teacher of your nephew, the costume designer of the theater company you're going to see tonight, the vet that takes care of your cat.
The mayor from where you went to dinner. The builder of the house you live in,the writer you read before sleeping the journalist who hear the news.
But if you think about it, do you think any of these people
can sniff cocaine, or are you unable to see or you're lying.
Or, simply, the person who uses it is you.

Anyone gotta bump?

LOL!

Saviano is a fool for writing about this sort of thing and putting himself and his entire family in danger for the rest of their lives which will now be shortened either via the stress of always being on guard and afraid, or from you know what.

Writing about this sort of thing is just making yourself a target and it's been around for 100s of years on the mainland and even longer on the island so it's never going to go away.

He's doing a really bad job at staying in "hiding" too with being on TV and lecturing at Princeton university.

The Cammora and other mainland Italian groups such as the Ndrangheta are small time and do not hold that much power.

Why do you think so? I especially disagree about the 'ndrangheta.

People involved in OC on the island are way more powerful than either the Cammora or Ndrangheta, they have been around for centuries longer than either of them, and it's always been like this and still is like this.

There have been changes in Cosa Nostra though. First, Toto' Riina whacked everyone who was good at dealing with the politicians in charge of the country and wasn't very good at doing so himself, so he started whacking politicians as well, so they stopped protecting him and allowed him to land in jail with the whole commission. Whatever happens now in the Cosa Nostra, it's different compared to what it was before. The 'ndrangheta was never heavily hit by the state (or it would be more correct to say "by the one part of the state that is still honest") unlike the Cosa Nostra because they almost never attacked the state directly, while Riina and his goons were stupid enough to kill many policemen, judges and politicians and therefore ruined a considerable part of the organization with their idiotic behavior. The mafia had to spend time to recover, while the 'ndrangheta didn't have any need to.

There's a lot of corruption, things run deep, there's still a lot of power from an island that's not weakened or had to recover at all, what's seen by the public is not always what happens as few people talk about what really happens, and many journalists, writers, and so called historians including ones in the United States play ignorant to certain subjects.

The saddest thing is that, even when somebody who knows a lot of things about the organization turns informant, even many of them, the politicians and heads of big financial corporations always get acquitted. The white collar is the best proof of the innocence of the accused, according to the judges.
And the people are ready to kiss their feet, for example when Giulio Andreotti died, everybody was saying that a "great political leader will be greatly missed". Yeah, right, especially by the family of the journalist Mino Pecorelli who knew too much and was killed on his orders. The fact that common people vote for those pieces of shit just because they know how to smile in front of the cameras is really the worst thing, even more dangerous than the corruption among judges in my opinion.

WG, Less than 100 years ago, none of these substances was illegal.

Until our government decided to draft unconstitutional federal laws regarding these substances. That's right, unconstitutional.... These matters were to be left up to each state to resolve how they wanted to handle them. We all saw how well prohibition of alcohol worked. Fact of the matter is, society is currently rife with these substances, and the current "war" has been a total failure.

I'm not for "legalization", what I'm for is preservation of civil liberties. If I decide I want to put something into my body, be it alcohol, heroin, or a bullet to my brain, that's my decision to make. Not that of a governing body that feels they know best what's good for the citizenry.

Let be clear though on one issue, I hate marijuana... Tried it several times in my life when I was a kid and never had a good experience. Other stuff I messed around with 20 years ago, but it was a passing fancy. However, just because I don't use drugs, that's no excuse for me to force my morality on others. Especially when any of these "illegal" items are only a phone call or short drive away. A person's body is theirs to do with as they see fit, not for someone else to tell them what they can or can't put into it.

"Freedom off choice", isn't that what our nation was founded on? Drug consumption is a victimless crime.

"Freedom" is a good concept, but it modern society it gets abused and has become an excuse to justify virtually everything apart from murder, rape and theft. "Freedom" shouldn't be egoistic: you can't just spit on the feelings of your relatives who don't want to see you die because of drugs.
Even the alcohol prohibition wasn't morally "bad" or "wrong" in my opinion. Completely useless and backfiring, but not morally bad. It's sad people think that morality is an outdated concept.

Cocaine, heroin, and meth were at one time legal in the United States. It did not work out that well.

I think if they want to decriminalize pot or hash they should do it like they have the law in Spain. Where it's illegal to buy or sell, use in public, drive while high, but if you want to use it in your home or grow a few plants that is legal if you are an adult.

Portugal has decriminalized drugs in that if you get caught instead of going to prison you go to rehab/treatment.

http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal

Personally, I think morality is "tits"! What's outdated and archaic are religions that indoctrinate children from an early age that instill the belief that we must be "Christ like" in order to attain divine reward in the next life.

Why does the human race sell itself short, and rather than accept that we can live our lives morally, without infringing on the rights of others, without dragging religion into the equation?

Like anything, excess can lead to ruin. Be it alcohol, gambling, tobacco use, pornography, or any other number of "legal" vices.

My point is, that many federal laws fly in the face of the constitution, and states are now rebelling against these laws as we're seeing with the decriminalization of marijuana.

Dwalin, You mention spitting on the feelings of relatives who don't want to see you die of drugs. Do you honestly think that if a person wants to consume a particular controlled substance, that the laws against it, or the 40+ year "War on Drugs" has limited accessibility to that drug and saved that person from killing himself? Drugs are cheaper, more readily available, and much purer now than they were prior to the declared war on drugs. I'm not pulling this out of my ass, these are facts.

Between 1972 and 2008, our government had spent over 500 billion dollars on this drug war, and again, drugs are cheaper, more accessible, and more potent than they were prior. The current strategy has not only failed, but failed in a big way.

Let's address why so many people die from drugs each year.

1. You have scumbags selling kids Ajax, or any other types of readily available poisons to rip them off, with no regard for loss of life or limb due to their heinous actions.

2. You have batches of drugs of varying purity, rather than uniform industry controlled purities (That could eliminate many ODs due to a "hot" dose)

3. You have clandestine chemists manufacturing batches of fentanyl (Which is extremely easy to synthesize in a half-assed lab, with a little organic chemistry background), and cutting it with heroin, or passing it off as heroin, due to it's low cost, extremely high potency, and ease of synth. Again with no regard for loss of life.

4. You have people that are terrified to call 911 in the event a person overdoses, due to draconian drug laws that could possibly get everyone that was present a long prison term.

5. Etc., etc., etc.

Again, this has become a pet project for me, not because I'm "Pro drug" ( I seldom even drink anymore, and if I do it's 2 beers tops)
but because I believe it's everyone's civil liberty to do As though so choose with their own body.

Drug abuse and availability is at an all-time high, and this is after 40 some years of a drug war. People cite total erosion of society if drug policies were to change. It's already there, I'm sorry to say....

The DEA figures they stop about 15% of the drug traffic into the U.S., and every year the amount of seizures climbs, however so due the amount of shipments smuggled in.

Do any of you actually believe this "war" has accomplished anything?

It's obvious the current strategy is not working at all, the focus needs to shift from drug enforcement, to prevention, education, and treatment.

People are going to do what they choose to do, whether it's illegal or legal. And like I said, drugs are just a phone call away, that's pretty fucking sad considering the wasted expenditures to curb the flow.

If I'm off base here, tell me what the answer is to the growing epidemic of narcotic abuse in this nation?

Jimmerz
what I meant is that in my opinion drug dealers and drug addicts complaining about their rights to poison others and poison themselves isn't by itself a good reason to legalize drugs. But I agree with most of the points you made in the last post: the police repression by itself isn't a solution because the anti-drug laws are not working as they were intended to. As you said, more importance should be given to prevention, education and treatment. For example, people in the USA don't drink anymore like they did at the times when alcohol prohibition was introduced, they stopped simply because drinking less has become part of the cultural education and mentality. Same should be done with drugs in my opinion, but something SHOULD be done to get them off the society, it's not like we should let the hell loose, it's just that new methods of erasing them from the people's culture should be found.
So in my opinion something surely has to change, but NOT because of "freedom" in this case, but because the laws aren't working.

Dwalin, and anyone else that's interested, check out this article on the "Drug War", very interesting data.



http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/how-america-lost-the-war-on-drugs-20110324

I think a large factor in why drugs won't be legalized anytime soon is because there are thousands of jobs that depend on keeping drugs illegal... prisons,lawyers,cops,probation and drug testing, etc, the criminal justice system feeds on the drug money. One other thing, The Alcoholic Beverage Industry spends millions of dollars on lobbying the law makers to keep their product the only legal drug. We need to try something new, what we are doing now is not working, just my 2 cents.

Exactly. Consumption of drugs is a victimless crime? Hardly. As I said, look at the damage legal alcohol and tobacco does. There are plenty of victims and not just the consumers themselves. What it comes down to is simple selfishness on the part of the consumers. They want their fix and will often do anything to get it, no matter the cost to themselves, their family and friends, or society as a whole.

NNY, Exactly!

In addition, the prison system is being rapidly privatized and the corporations that own this prisons have a vested interest in keeping them filled to capacity to maximize profit.


Check this out, Michele Leonhart, the current head of the DEA, is still arguing dated, disproved theories about marijuana.

This is the idiot that's running our D.E.A.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykwaXsQY6Eg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFC2IZe04EY


For Christ sake, marijuana (Or Hemp as it's properly named) is a weed that grows wild. Not much different from the apples growing on the tree in my backyard. All this "To do" about a plant is fucking ridiculous.

We're comparing weed (and it's effects) to apples now?

Everything you just talked about is already a crime- ie the crime against the rights of others. There is no absurdity at saying the drug should be legal or decriminalized- but at the point that a person, perhaps under influence of said drug, does damage to others that they be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

It was like morons on fox last year talking about decriminalizing weed is going to lead to "people getting all potted up on weed and getting behind the wheel". News flash, that's already a crime and stands as a completely separate and distinct issue from the legalization argument.

WG, Let's take for example the state trooper that I bought a truck off of when I was 19. A few days after purchasing the truck (Which he had bought new), I was cleaning out the interior of the truck and found assorted paraphernalia under the seat, rolling papers, a "bowl", and assorted dried out buds of Mary Jane. This guy was a sergeant with the PSP, but put on his pants everyday and went out and enforced the laws of the commonwealth every day for 35 years.

Where is the victim? You're attributing the crime that accompanies addiction and high priced narcotics to the consumption of drugs. This crime is a already rampant, what's going to solve it?

Do you have any clue how many white collar and affluent members of society "self medicate" on a daily basis? Again, where are the victims?

Have you followed any of the studies on government provided heroin in Switzerland, Netherlands, or Vancouver, CA? The lack of crime from addiction when their drug of choice is readily and cheaply available is quite telling.

Anyways, my point is laws, incarceration, and the current attitude towards this issue has done nothing to curb the flow of and availability of narcotics. 40 years of failed drug policy, wouldn't you say it's time to try a different approach?

WG, my point is it's a plant that grows wild, just like an Apple.

Let me try this approach.... marijuana was put on this earth by "god", just like Apple trees were. Does this mean "god" is fallible afterall?

That we already know people will abuse it that much more, and cause other crimes related to it, is enough to keep it illegal. Why add all those other problems to society just because a bunch of idiots want to get high?



Anyone can find anecdotal examples where there is no apparent victim. But if you look at the big picture of the cost of drugs on society, the legions of victims are very apparent.



It's only failed because it's not enforced correctly. I realize some people want to lay that at the feet of law enforcement, who they believe "need" the drug trade to justify many of their jobs. I lay it at the feet of liberalism that keeps us from doing what it would take to truly stop the drug trade. Something similar to the approach they take in Malasia or China, coupled with our special forces going into Mexico and wiping out the cartels. It's ironic because the same liberal thinking that claims we should legalize drugs because the War on Drugs has failed is the reason for the failure in the first place.



He is no more responsible for marijuana or it's abuse than He is for smog, earthquakes, or traffic jams. Those are all part of the Fall of Adam, which led to the Fall of all creation to a lower order. But I digress.

Graphic details have emerged around the suicide attempt of rapper Andre Johnson, who cut off his penis and testicles before jumping out his West Hollywood, Calif., apartment last week.

According to E! News, Johnson, 40, was high on the drug PCP (aka phencyclidine or angel dust) at the time of the incident. A source said Johnson used a steak knife to cut off the tip of his penis first, then his testicles and finally the entire organ itself.

When authorities arrived, Johnson was already on the balcony of his unit and said he was "OK," only to leap from the second-floor apartment. His body was found on a sidewalk, while the remnants of his genitalia were found upstairs. Doctors were unable to reattach the penis, TMZ reports.

Johnson goes by the rap name Christ Bearer and is a member of the rap duo Northstar. Although he has been touted in the press as having an affiliation to the Wu-Tang Clan, it turns out that he's no longer connected with the hip hop collective. Wu-Tang leader RZA recently clarified Johnson's actual connection to the group in a statement to XXL. "Christ Bearer is a part of the West Coast Killa Beez, a bunch of young guys that was signed to our company 10 years ago," Bobby Digital said in a statement. "We did invest in some young guys to try and help any hood. He was a guy from the hood that we gave a shot. I don't make music with him nowadays."

RZA continued, "I feel sad for his family first and foremost; I know he has children. I thought he was a smarter guy than a guy who would do something crazy like that. But at the same time, he's been in jail recently, he's been in trouble. Maybe he's mentally unstable. Maybe the mental health system should have took a look at him and said, 'You know what? We got to hold on to this guy for a little longer."

Two days after the incident, the message "Peace-feeling blessed," was posted on Johnson's Facebook page, and later deleted.