Posted By: PP
Did small Families not in the NE use a ceremony - 03/15/13 01:07 AM
to make people back in the day?
Did Miami, Detroit, Kansas City, New Orleans, St.Louis, etc, etc have making ceremonies? Or were they like Chicago where they didn't. At least Chicago didn't for a while, until Aiuppa, IIRC.
Posted By: NickyEyes1
Re: Did small Families not in the NE use a ceremony - 03/15/13 01:11 AM
I'm sure all of the families you listed (except Miami they never had a family there. Just crews from other cities)used the ceremony at one time.
Posted By: AmericanCrime
Re: Did small Families not in the NE use a ceremony - 03/15/13 01:24 AM
Yeah. Agreed. I think Chicago is the exception to the rule of the ceremony. Due largely to it's non-Cosa Nostra origins.
Posted By: NickyEyes1
Re: Did small Families not in the NE use a ceremony - 03/15/13 01:26 AM
Chicago usually always had some kind of ceremony even if it wasn't the traditional finger prick. For example Capone put guys hands on a Bible.
Posted By: PP
Re: Did small Families not in the NE use a ceremony - 03/15/13 02:32 AM
I'm sure all of the families you listed (except Miami they never had a family there. Just crews from other cities)used the ceremony at one time.
Good catch. I was thinking about Trafficante when I typed that, meant Tampa.
Posted By: NickyEyes1
Re: Did small Families not in the NE use a ceremony - 03/15/13 03:37 AM
Gotcha. And yeah Tampa used the ceremony. I even heard they had one like 10 years ago but that might be bullshit.
Posted By: Vigil
Re: Did small Families not in the NE use a ceremony - 03/15/13 07:34 AM
Is it true that Luciano wanted to get rid of the ceremonies altogether, but Lansky told him that the young guys needed that tradition? I don't remember where I read or heard that...
Posted By: Viceguy
Re: Did small Families not in the NE use a ceremony - 03/15/13 01:20 PM
Due largely to it's non-Cosa Nostra origins.
...I don't quite follow...explain, please...
Capone put guys hands on a Bible.
Wonder what the oath was...I (state your name) do solemnly swear...
Posted By: Camarel
Re: Did small Families not in the NE use a ceremon - 03/15/13 02:47 PM
Due largely to it's non-Cosa Nostra origins.
...I don't quite follow...explain, please...
Capone put guys hands on a Bible.
Wonder what the oath was...I (state your name) do solemnly swear...
I think he might've been talking about the Outfit not being strictly Sicialian before alot of the other families with members from Naples etc.
Posted By: Toodoped
Re: Did small Families not in the NE use a ceremony - 03/15/13 04:30 PM
Only the sicilian factions are having ceremonies with blood and saints,the freemasons have similar ceremony"If i have the misfortune and the shame of breaching my oath,i consent to be myself sacrificed,may my eyes be deprived of light with a red hot iron bar,may my body be execrated by the Sons of the Widow".As for the Camorra or 'Ndrangheta,they dont have any ceremony action,only questions and answers.The sicilian oath goes something like this....
La famiglia è la famiglia
Questo giuramento è questo giuramento
E muoio prima di romperla
E quando si cresce, si cresce come una
Giuro un giuramento di omertà
Se tradire questa famiglia, mi bruciano come questo santo nelle mie mani
Apologies to all Italian ppl for my bad spelling and ofcourse my bad italian speach...
Posted By: m2w
Re: Did small Families not in the NE use a ceremony - 03/15/13 04:57 PM
ndrangheta have the blood and saint at the end of the cerimony
and some camorra clans too
Posted By: AmericanCrime
Re: Did small Families not in the NE use a ceremony - 03/15/13 05:20 PM
Due largely to it's non-Cosa Nostra origins.
...I don't quite follow...explain, please...
Capone put guys hands on a Bible.
Wonder what the oath was...I (state your name) do solemnly swear...
Basically, the early Outfit was a Camorra group or at least heavily influenced by Camorrists. It wasnt until the conclusion of the Castellamarese war with the restructuring and national organization that followed, that they were included in the national Mafia scene. But they really didnt fully commit to the traditional LCN format due to these origins.
And the Camorra never really had a ritualized induction ceromony. Except the NCO. I believe they modeled themselve after the Cosa Nostra
Posted By: m2w
Re: Did small Families not in the NE use a ceremony - 03/15/13 05:21 PM
yes, calabrians have a longer ceremony, but at the end is the same as the sicilian ones, with bloods and saint burned
Posted By: ChiTown
Re: Did small Families not in the NE use a ceremony - 03/15/13 06:51 PM
Due largely to it's non-Cosa Nostra origins.
...I don't quite follow...explain, please...
Capone put guys hands on a Bible.
Wonder what the oath was...I (state your name) do solemnly swear...
Basically, the early Outfit was a Camorra group or at least heavily influenced by Camorrists. It wasnt until the conclusion of the Castellamarese war with the restructuring and national organization that followed, that they were included in the national Mafia scene. But they really didnt fully commit to the traditional LCN format due to these origins.
And the Camorra never really had a ritualized induction ceromony. Except the NCO. I believe they modeled themselve after the Cosa Nostra
Thanks for that...very interesting.
Posted By: m2w
Re: Did small Families not in the NE use a ceremony - 03/15/13 07:42 PM
the old camorra in 1800s had a ritualized induction ceremony
but during 1900s some camorra groups abandoned it
Posted By: ht2
Re: Did small Families not in the NE use a ceremony - 03/15/13 08:15 PM
Basically, the early Outfit was a Camorra group or at least heavily influenced by Camorrists. It wasnt until the conclusion of the Castellamarese war with the restructuring and national organization that followed, that they were included in the national Mafia scene. But they really didnt fully commit to the traditional LCN format due to these origins.
If this is so then how did Jim Colosimo, born in Calabria, rise to the top? Chicago Outfit leaders were present at Atlantic City conference in late 1920's before Castellamarese war started, which means they were recognized before then.
Posted By: TonyBoy117
Re: Did small Families not in the NE use a ceremony - 03/15/13 08:16 PM
Gotcha. And yeah Tampa used the ceremony. I even heard they had one like 10 years ago but that might be bullshit.
Yeah Nicky I heard that also, I mentioned it to Scott D on this site once and he said he had too
Posted By: AmericanCrime
Re: Did small Families not in the NE use a ceremony - 03/15/13 10:27 PM
Basically, the early Outfit was a Camorra group or at least heavily influenced by Camorrists. It wasnt until the conclusion of the Castellamarese war with the restructuring and national organization that followed, that they were included in the national Mafia scene. But they really didnt fully commit to the traditional LCN format due to these origins.
If this is so then how did Jim Colosimo, born in Calabria, rise to the top? Chicago Outfit leaders were present at Atlantic City conference in late 1920's before Castellamarese war started, which means they were recognized before then.
Yes of course they were recognized and no doubt some cross-pollination of interests were pursued. But what we really know as the LCN emerged due to the Castellamarese conflict and Prohibition. In which a more sophisticated and more interdependent cooperation between mafia families was being developed.
Colosimo was Calabrian. But then again the org. crime culture in Chicago has always been based on merit of indivuduals and much less about cultural heritage. Which is evident in the prominance of non-Italian associates in the Outfit. Much less regional differences. Besides, I dont think they were full fledged Camorra. But they were derived from that tradition I believe. And had alot more influences regarding structure. Until Accardo I believe made some changes that resulted in a more LCN style family.