Joe Profaci

This guy seems to be forgotten when discussing the ORIGINAL heavy hitters of LCN. What are ya'lls thoughts on this guy? His family seemed to be pretty stable until the Gallo brothers got pissed off in the late 50's.

He was definitely a huge figure at the time. Personally, from what I have read, I don't think he was very able to roll with the changing times.

He was a power house but in reading about Gallo it seems Profaci was very greedy, but show me a boss that wasn't...

seems to be a legend in lcn. 'old man profaci' as junior soprano calls him was said to be a cunning fox in his day.

huge powerhouse was de facto boss for over 30 yrs. had loads of business interests including one olive oil company (can anyone spot the obvious correlation to a fictional story lol)and also the story about the set up in the bar in gf 2. same thing happened to larry gallo. this guy was huge

I liked this story..Today's wiseguy's wouldn't even care !!

In May 1952, a thief stole valuable jeweled crowns from the Regina Pacis Votive shrine in Brooklyn. Profaci sent his men to recover the crowns and reportedly killed the thief.

So what's the seal with his kids.I know some are involved in the life but are they retired still active or in jail? Soldiers or captains? I bet they had alot of money from there old man when he passed

Anyone know if Joe Profaci's sons or nephews are still living, serving the Colombo's or retired?

I don't know about now but back in the 90s his son Salvatore was a Colombo capo he was close with John Stanfa and his attorney Sal Avena he was picked up on the bug in Avenas office, I believe his kid was married to Avenas kid

great posts.. I have remembered some things I read about joe profaci,he was extremely wealthy, and was notorious for being cheap. he was charged sometime in the fifties for watering down his olive oil, he paid a fine. he was real old school and as greedy as they come. the book I read said he was worth 100 million.

Many of the real life scenes from the godfather come from the profaci family. He was in the mold of genovese. Caused friction within his family to remain total control. Had gallos kill Frankie shots then went back on his word. Although his family was smaller it had some major earners. Johnny bath beach, Mimi scialo, sonny franzese, persicos, gallos and scarpa. The profacis compared w there size def made tons of $$ per crew. And they were a vicious bunch

What do I think about Profaci? One can only guess. My guess is that he was primarily a drug trafficker with unique drug trafficking connections stretching back to his native village of Villabate in Sicily. I have no basis for believing that though.

The Gallos were being backed by other bosses of other families so that those bosses together with the Gallos could take over Profaci's drug trafficking operations. In other words, the Gallo-Profaci war was a drug war. But again, I have no basis for that supposition.

Profaci was not a drug trafficker. He was the "olive-oil king". A multi millionaire. No need for him to go into drugs. He was extremely devoted to his businesses. There´s very little info on him which shows how low key he was. Did he use his connections/muscles in order for his businesses to flourish? Absolutely! Was he a murderer? Absolutely! But a drug trafficker he was not.

It´s amazing how many tough, stone cold killers that "small" Family of his has produced. Johnny Oddo, Bonasera, Sally Mussacchio, Greg Scarpa Sr, Carmine Persico and his brother Alphonse, Sonny Franzese, Mimi Scialo, Jiggs Forlano, the Gallo brothers, Allie Giannattasio, Joe Jelly, Rocky Miraglia, Charlie "Moose" Panarella, Tommy Spero etc, etc. All heavy hitters and deadly serious.

Pete "The Greek", Joey Gallo´s bodyguard explained in his book The Sixth Family his anger and disgust over Jimmy Breslin´s The Gang That Couldn´t Shoot Straight: "The writer our crew would have loved giving a beating to was Jimmy Breslin. The whole thing was funny. The Profaci war was just a bunch of laughs. Well, Breslin should have spent one night with us, found out what it would feel like if some Profaci clipped him in the ass. Even with a small Baretta, he wouldn´t be fucking laughing. That´s for sure!"

The tiny size of that Family and the fact that their founding Boss came out of almost nowhere and was made an equal to the other Bosses on the Commission back in the early 30's is what alerts me to the possibility that this man and his tiny family had to have some kind of high powered way of making money.



That quote comes from the below link:

http://americanmafiahistory.com/giuseppe-joe-profaci/

Now if in fact Profaci was a Heroin importer from the very beginning, it would explain many things. If one reads about a character named "Antonio Cottone" who basically was Profaci's representative back in Villabate, one learns that it was Cottone that Profaci was caught conversing with about the Heroin filled oranges.

I am pretty sure Profaci was a high powered drug trafficker. Only thing I am not sure about is when he began. Right now there isn't much to go on to make the case that the Mafia was into illicit drugs big back in the early 30's. To everyone, bootlegging alcohol was the major black market of that era. However if I get more info, I will share it.

I know of that passage, I´ve read it a couple of times and it leaves me puzzled every time. It´s extremely unclear and indistinct. It actually makes me wonder if it´s made up. A source in that article you linked could clear this up. But there is none. I´ve read a number of files and others who have researched Profaci agree that there are no accusations of Profaci being into drugs (in those files).

Among all those narcotics violaters (and there were many of them) who were in/tied to the Mafia and who were caught in late 1950s and early 1960s, only two were said to have been linked to the Profaci Family. The first one is Sebastiano Nanni. The second one is an obscure figure by the name of Cristoforo Rubino. Valachi said Rubino was a Profaci member. But he very well could have been wrong. (My own research ties him with John Ormento and the Luccheses.)

And btw, welcome to the boards Alfa.

Thank you for the warm welcome. Yes I am new here.

I think part of the challenge in establishing the sources for the factoid about the heroin oranges is the fact that the factoid originates from the Palermo Questura. So this is not a simple freedom of information act request to an American law enforcement agency to give up files. This is Sicilian law enforcement from 80 years ago. The Questura are supposed to be the ones who taped the conversation about the oranges.

Looking into the issue, there is a strong case to be made about Mafia heroin trafficking from even the time of the establishment of the commission. But back then it wasn't the French Connection, it was the Burmese Chinese Connection with Sicily (Profaci's Villabate, Castellemmare Del Golfo, Palermo, Trapani, etc?) being the last point in refinement and shipment before reaching the United States as with the French Connection.

PS; Apparently with the anti Narcotics Acts being passed in the 1920's, there is legal evidence of a heroin issue in the United States before the establishment of the Commission. Evidently, drug prohibition ran concurrently with alcohol prohibition, and the mafia capitalized on both laws to enrich themselves. At this point, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that prohibition against drugs and alcohol in the 1920's was meant to give the Mafia a monopoly.

The Mafia is (or "was" perhaps is a better word) all about establishing a monopoly. In many ways its economic goals (and how to reach them) was an imitation of the early industrial tycoons and businessmen who had "moved up" by manipulation and domination of various markets. But I don´t agree with you that the prohibition was meant to give the Mafia a monopoly. (Perhaps I´m reading it wrong?) The Mafia was certainly not the only party in the bootlegging underworld. Jewish mobsters, Irish mobsters, Eastern European mobsters and others all gained significantly from it.

Wow, a new poster who, instead of engaging in childish name calling, actually initiates an intelligent discussion to support his points? Sounds good to me.

Welcome to the board.

Thanks for the Welcome Snakes. I've lurked far too long. I need to put in my 2 cents.

that rat joe cantaloupe wrote a little bout profaci his father was close to him and Colombo. said profaci owned 2 big brownstones and in the basement of the one nxt door had a huge wooden table used for the big meetings and there was a passage from one house to the other. so guys would come in 1 house and walk underground to the next one to confuse law.

its been posted here before profaci brother in laws kids and grandkids are today the biggest liquor retellers oin the tri state like worth a billion. the guy who took over after profaci died forgot his name probably more richer then that boss from buffalo whose family owned the chain of pizza places.

Capeci also seems to be convinced Profaci was involved in drugs. And Profaci being a multi-millionaire through legit business isn't a reason to assume he wasn't involved in the drug trade. It didn't stop him from being involved in many other crimes, up to and including murder.

Nothing seems to suggest that he was involved (evidence wise), other than that passage above posted by Alfa. But the way I see it, is that we shouldn´t jump to the conclusion that he was due to that we don´t know where that passage has its origin or what it was based upon. Let´s just agree to disagree.

I remember once reading about Profaci´s farm in NJ. Apparently there was a takeoff and landing strip for airplanes located on the grounds. I think I read this in a book and the author was very fast to conclude that the landing strip was used by Profaci to smuggle drugs. How absurd! All that was missing in that ridiculous story is that Profaci himself flew the aircraft and used Magliocco as his copilot. My point is that a lot of stories avialable is pure rubbish.

One thing that may be of interest is how and why Profaci became close with Joe Bonanno. Rosalie Profaci, daughter of Salvatore (Profaci´s brother) and wife of Bill Bonnano explains this in her book Mafia Marriage:

"Canada was a main source of illicit liquor at the time, and illicit liquor being a staple of my uncle Joseph’s and Stephen Magaddino’s incomes, I suppose arrangements for bringing my father into the United States from Canada were not difficult to make. It was Joseph Bonanno, Stephen Magaddino’s cousin, who was sent to Canada to ease my father’s way. When Mr. Bonanno met my father, they were both young men in their early twenties. They did not go directly back to New York, but spent a couple of months living and working together at bootlegging in Buffalo, so that by the time Mr. Bonanno delivered Joe Profaci’s little brother to him, not only had a friendship been forged, but a lasting alliance in their world."

alfa romeo, im also new here and I love talking about o.c. ive had no first hand expierence, but have done extensive reading on the mob. on this site are people who are extremely vell versed on the mob. its a great site. again let be one also to welcome you here. I look forward to reading your posts.

I'm find agreeing to disagree, Hairy, but I'm not sure there being no specific evidence of Profaci's involvement in narcotics is all that convincing. Members from all the NY families were involved in the drug trade. I just don't find it feasible that Profaci didn't know about which of his guys were involved and didn't get his cut.

Hey Binnie, nice to meet you. Similar interests is what it's all about.

And even if the other members haven't spoken up, the ones that did made me feel welcome by all.

I too have no first hand knowledge of Mafia. But I have read a list of books on the subject, and yes, I have formed some unique opinions. I look forward to sharing some of them as I have always enjoyed reading what is posted in this forum for some reason. It's like one big happy sitdown

It's hard to believe he was not into drug trafficking ... Bonnano was knee deep into heroin ... c'mon his alignment with bonnano gave him bonnano most of his power . he influenced him in many way's

joe profaci was probably the cheapest boss in all of LCN, he still charged all of his guys dues long after other families abandoned them.

he was the largest olive oil importer in the U.S. and still added water to his olive oil, the government levied a hugh fine against him for that.

his cheap ways largely caused the gallo revolt against him.

Profaci was more in line with a Genovese than a Gambino. He secured immense power for his family whilst throwing their lives away if even slightly provoked.

The american mafia yahoo group has a bunch of old archives regarding mobsters from the 20's and 30's. There was a thread speculating that there was a Brooklyn boss whose family preceded Profaci, thus explaining his almost "instant" rise to power (it wasn't so instant.) I couldn't find the thread but I believe this is the website.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/americanmafia/conversations/messages/263

^ A separate conversation regarding Profaci

If anyone can dig it up there was a lot there.

BarrettM, it is hard to trace these mafia groups origins as there were more than Just the five families operating in New York before the formations of the families.

You can trace the Profaci crime family to Joe Fontana who was killed in 1913 in Harlem. From 1913-1925, Salvatore DiBella was the boss. From 1925-1928, a Zarcone was the boss. Then Joe Profaci took over.

As for Joe Profaci being involved with drugs, there is some hints that before he moved back to Brooklyn from Chicago, that he did do some minor transactions while as a grocer to make the move. After he moved back to New York, it seems he had no more dealings with drugs personally, but members in his crime family were heavy in it. No doubt, Profaci made sure he got his cut.

"...he still charged all of his guys dues long after other families abandoned them."

What do you mean by that, Binnie?

I really like your posts on here dude always a pleasure. Salvatore DiBella is the name I was looking for. But like you said it's all so murky I never delved in to it...would he be related to Tommy DiBella and Joe Fontana to Harry Fontana?

I'm one of the guys who wrote on the Yahoo forum. Joe Fontana was not a boss, he was a member of the D'Aquila Family. Salvatore DiBella was only a boss for a short time, apparently taking over from Manfredi Mineo. I don't know where Zarcone as boss comes from. Giovanni Zarcone was an important member under Lupo and was killed in 1909. Salvatore DiBella was the father of Thomas DiBella; Joseph Fontana was not related to Harry Fontana (it's a common name and I traced both of their genealogies).

in the book "joey" by Donald goddard, joey gallo complained the profaci charged all of his men 25 dollars a month dues, both gallo. and jr.persico were going to revolt because of profacis cheapness,

in the book persico had a score of 2000 dollars, he was going to kick up to profaci, he went to a captain and the captain took all but 200 dollars which he gave to persico. jr. was outraged, and joined gallo's revolt.

only to switch sides a short time later. joey is a great book about joey gallo.

Bonanno was the same way. In the FBI transcripts Sam DeCavalcante is talking to Joe Zicarelli, and during the Bonanno War Zicarelli talked to someone and found out he was kicking up a lot more than the other Families (at least the DeCavalcante and Genovese Families). Other Bonanno members were complaining that JB was keeping the soldiers poor.

He and Profaci were birds of a feather too. Just speculation, but I also wonder how Mangano treated his soldiers. Joe says he, Profaci, and Mangano would live it up every weekend and the three got along great.

After the Gallos kidnapped the hierarchy of the Profaci family (narrowly missing Joe), he had to bring the matter to the Commission. That caused him to lose face. That's when Gambino and Lucchese began agitating for him to step down as Don.

I think Scarpa said the same in his FBI files as well.

Joe Fontana was close to the Lupo tht Wolf as well. It seems he had become the representative to those from Villabate, but he came from a different town in Sicily, once the Morello family splintered off into groups based on there home towns. DiBalla seems to have taken over this group, and only paid lip service to D'Aquila. The Zarcone in question is believed to be a relative of Giovanni Zarcone, who is from Villabate, his nephews Frank and Pietro may have been the head of the group. Both were involved with the Andrea Gambino killing which resulted in Giovanni being killed. Frank seems to have moved to Villabate after wwI. Pietro was fined for carry a firearm in 1920, in the presence of DiBella, Gaetano Cattone, and a Frank Proface all from Villabate. After that there is no more mention of Pietro Zarcone. A lot of sources say that Joe Profaci became head of the group in 1925, but he did not returned to New York till 1927, which by that time he was known as a heavy hitter. Salvatore DiBella was Thomas father, he passed away in the mid 1930's. Thomas did not go beyond the rank of sold to till the turmoil in the family on the early 1960's. Joe and Harry Fontana are not related, though there may be a family connection in Palermo. Fontana is a common surname in Sicily.

What was the 25 bucks use for or did he pocket the money.

according to his soldiers, he kept the money, by the way he is

mentioned in books about joey gallo as being worth 100 million.

When the press and LE sources throw out numbers like $100 million dollars they're blowing smoke. They have no idea and are just guessing. It's possible they're accurate, but more likely that they're way off. LE often overestimates the net worth of Mob bosses. What they often forget is that some of that money goes back to the organization and isn't really their personal wealth. Sort of like the British crown jewels don't really belong to the Britsh royal family but belong to all of the UK.

Is Profaci's olive oil company or distributing company still in business today/under a new a name? If the guy was the biggest olive oil importer in the entire US, some subsidiary of that company has to be around I would think no?

I think it was put out of business for watering down its olive oil, probably by the State of New York.

Hank Messick, a tabloid journalist, published a book on Meyer Lansky, calling him the most powerful organized crime figure and putting his worth at $300 million. Lansky's biographer, Robert Lacey, said Messick told him he never researched that figure, but published it because it was "big." Lacey estimated that Lansky was worth no more than $5-6 million at his peak, and died almost broke.

Colavita olive oil ..huge place in nj

I read this before and its true his brother in-law Joe magg can't spell last name grandkids are the biggest distributers of legal booze today in the tristate. Worth maybe more then anyone else. And there going strong I think ivey or HK published some new article on the grandkids.

John Profaci runs Colavita, but he started it up years after his father died. Here are some links of interest:

http://em.gmnews.com/news/2012-05-02/Front_Page/Olive_oil_producer_sets_up_shop_in_Edison.html

http://main.colavita.com/colavita-recipes/colvita-centre-for-food-and-wine/

http://njmonthly.com/articles/jersey-living/oil-baron/

https://books.google.com/books?id=zmWY95...aci&f=false

https://books.google.com/books?id=H3_I1h...aci&f=false

http://nypost.com/2010/12/12/godmother-of-real-estate/

DRUG WAR ? the Gallo's weren't getting any of that dope money .May'be they wanted more of their profit's to stay in their pocket's .Heard they were close to "Tony Bender".

So if they got along so well, why did they allow ALBERT to murder both brother's ?

I bring this point up a lot when I talk about Commision politics at that time, Bonnano, Profaci, Maggadino, Zerilli,Mangano, and possible Gagliano were all part of the same faction, like this was the dominant faction on the commision after Lucky got deported..

This was the real start of the end, they never shoulda let Albert get away with that, But they were hamstrung cause Costello backed him up.

never impressed with the Bonanno's. I think Profaci had more respect.