Very sad to see Italian neighborhoods disappear.

Miss the old school ways. Tenements full of Italians. The old shops like butcher shops,tailor shops,barbers,produce,cobblers,and variety stores. That is all you se now are fucking restaurants. Remember when all families were close and very loud. Wonderful dinners full of family eating and telling stories.
The smells of food and kindness of neighbors. Now we have yuppies buying up everything and forcing families out. Grandmothers and grandfathers are gone. The newer generation have no idea what they are missing. I miss the simple days of sitting in front of the stoop and playing Scopa. Fucking sucks to see the way things are today.

Today is the Coffee Shop/Restaurant and Parking Space era.If you even think of stayin in front of the restaurant or on the parking space and play Scopa or whatever,you gonna get arrested buddy.By the way whats this have to do with italian O.C. or whatever?

Actually it's a good sign .Italians aren't disappearing ,just their old digs.You wouldn't want to be stuck in the old neighborhood forever. Look around at the crumbling infrastructures of today's cities. It's up to the survivors of those old-school relatives to carry on their values and that's what is more valuable. You made the best of it , you moved up, moved out and left behind a physical skeleton . Now the new downtrodden immigrants fill in the spaces . My old neighborhood ( East Boston )is a swill bucket . My family (grandparents-Parents-Aunts-Uncles-Cousins)lived there for 70 years, now none are still there. Cheer up.

I grew up in a suburban Italian area outside of Boston; actually Italian and Irish, virtually everyone was catholic. We would see all of our friends and neighbors at church on Saturday night or Sunday morning.

Most front yards had statues of Madonna's and everyone other house grew summer vegetables, some of the old timers even made wine.

People supported the church and I can remember my mother picking tomatoes and cucumbers and sending me up the the rectory to drop them off to the nuns.

A few guys in the area were connected, they were the ones with the nice cars and bought there kids the newest and best of everything. But they were also generous withe the church and the elderly in the area. I can remember one guy, he paid me to shovel a few of the elderly people driveways and sidewalks. At first my mother objected but my dad overruled her.

Life was simple, ah I miss those days.

Wow you guys had front yards? Lucky bastards. Ya I remember those Madonnas in the half buried bathtubs. Speaking of homemade wine . We had an old guy that lived on Border st that had a magnificent grape vine in his backyard that he used to make his vino from . We snuck in there one night and helped ourselves to some of his grapes when all of a sudden **baboom** . We screwed out of there like shit through a goose and ran down to the docks so we could pick the rocksalt out of the backs of our arms and legs. Good times though..

Yeah, front yards, we were living large, lmao...

we had a grape vine.....there was a Lebanese women in our neighbor hood that use to come pick the leaves and wrap them with lamb and rice. She would always bring my family tons of them for letting her pick the leaves, Good stuff !!

Are there many Italian suburbs outside Boston? Medord? Malden? Those are the two that are generally spoken about! Are there more? The one thing i do notice up theremis 99% of all the construction trucks in the Boston are have Italian Surnames on them, that is something to be PROUD of! Spine tingling moment when you think of all those hard working guys getting of the boat and making it! Those arenthenguysnthesenreality TV shows should be about! Not these Pigs who are an abomination!

amen to that! i would love to see a reality show about an italian owned restaurant! not this mob wives shit my wife and sisters watch.

It's life.

A big chunk of Bay Ridge used to be a Norwegian...that's tells it all.

@ Bennie_The_Ball

I completely agree.
Those times might look appealing for younger Americans of Italian descent who are looking for some sectarian need of aggregation (I've experienced it myself and I fully understand) but it was a heck of a hard life.

It was not so different (nor better) than the one in the Old Country...just more vertical.

The Italian neighborhood where I go to school in St. Louis hasn't been gentrified a bit. It was a descent place to start with, however so maybe that's part of it. It doesn't bother me really. The restaurants and stores are the same it's just the people live on cul'de'sacs and not tenement corners.

Do they still have Jewish neighborhoods in NYC?

What Italian neighborhood do you live in frank?

New York City is a Jewish Neighborhood

NYC is only about 20% Jewish, far below the number of Catholics (about 60%).

It has become more spread out but 30 years ago when I was growing up almost all of West Roxbury was Italian and Irish and populations could be found in Dedham, Rosindale and Jamaica Plain.

There were plenty of other communities up and down the North and South shore.

Was Brockton? Marchiano being the greatest boxer of all time was from there no? Was that an Italian town?

No chance Marciano was the greatest boxer of all time that'd be sugar ray robinson. Marciano only really fought a spent Joe Louis and Jersey Joe and Ezzard Charles who his style was perfect for. The only reason he was undefeated was because he fought in the worst time period for the Heavyweight division ever and he stole the La Starza fight.

I wouldn't say all Italian neighborhoods are disappearing albeit most are,for example I was born in the Bronx, Throggs Neck to be precise,which is probablely,sadly,the most far gone of the five Boroughs and although my family for the most part left the BX you still have Italian enclaves all along the east bronx, It's not all about the "American Dream" but as a 21 year old "Kid" as my friend and fellow Bronx guy PB puts it, I'd pick my two floor house in Lower Westchester over a dirty tenement on 117th and Pleasent circa 1950,it's all about moving up the monetary ladder from immigrant to naturalized,just my perspective

Marciano was better than sugar ray for one reason.. He was a paisan! What else do you need to know?

He was a perfect style? Yeah a kick ass style! This argument coukd go on for days, however I will refer to Burt Sugar and Angelo Dundee on this and stick with Rocky!

"And it's not just the money. It's a pride thing. All our food: pizza, calzone, buffalo moozarell', olive oil. These f----s had nothin'. They ate pootsie before we gave them the gift of our cuisine. But this, this is the worst. This expresso shit."

Whats wrong with 117 and/ or Pleasant? LOL

Speaking of that part of town, I haven't been to Patsy's in years! Any one here ever been to Rao's?

Patsy's and Rao's couldnt be more over rated. Andy's Colonial Tavern was the best! Closed of coarse.

Where is/was Andy's?

I said he was the perfect style for Ezzard Charles who was the only decent,prime opposition he fought. Here is Bert Sugar 13 greatest boxers Sugar Ray is number 1 and Rocky doesn't appear - http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multime.../content.1.html

I've also never heard Dundee say Rocky was the best but i have heard him say Ali,Holmes and Robinson is at various times.

Read Burt Sugars Boxing Encylopedia! Sugar ranks by weight, however he's at the top. Dundee has stated it several times, he had a soft spot for Ali, however he also stated pound for pound Marchiano was the best FIGHTER. This is a personal opinion argument. For my money I take Marchiano and his punch. Let me ask a question, you say the division wasnt that competitive! Was the Rocky's fault?

Plenty in Brockton, but it was always a mixed area. Most recently it's been taken over by blacks, Mexican and Cape Verdean folks.

Marciano is the only heavy weight champ to retire without a defeat. There's a statue of him in Brockton. Brockton has and always will be a very tough town, way past blue color, just plain tough. It's the type place now that crack is openly sold along the street next to working girls patrolling the streets.

I'm sure it had some presence through the years as it is halfway between Boston and Providence. Most of the area was controlled by the "Saint", Tauton, Stoughton all that southeastern area..

Not at all but Rocky should've lost to La Starza by personal opinion i'd say Ali because i thought he was more entertaining but there's no denying Robinson was the best. I provided you a link to Berts greatest fighters Rocky doesn't appear out of 13 and Joe Louis is the best heavyweight according to him.

To me it's Ali, hands down. Moved like a butterfly and stung like a bee.

My favorite fighter though was Marvin Hagler...

Hagler was a Brockton guy too? Ali like Ted Williams missed his best years!

Yes, Marvin was from Brockton. One of his managers may have been a made guy, I just uncovered that last week..It was in Gravano's senate testimony about LCN and boxing.

Patranelli Brothers? Ive got a picture of them running with Marvin on Rt 6 I believe! Cape Cod somewhere anyway! Marvin jogged with Army boots on!

Yes, my Dad drove a truck and would see him running a lot. There was an article written in SI years and years ago that detailed his training schedule.

He like to fight in the early spring and him an his team would go to Province Town, at the tip of the Cape, and take the whole hotel over. It was closed in the winters anyway and Marvin would only allow about a half dozen guys to go out there with him. He ran 12 miles a day on the beach in deep sand with those same army boots and rumor is he ran 6 miles forward and 6 backwards.

He would shuttle in sparing partners a week at time and they used the ballroom to set up the ring. It was total solitude and got him in the right frame of mind.

I also heard that he shaved his head about a week before the fight so by the time he got in the ring it would be just grown in enough that it was like sandpaper and he would rake his head across your chest during fights, lol...

I read somewhere that the Rocky to Siberia idea was taken from Marvin training out in P-town.

Hagler vs Hearns is one of the best fights i've ever seen even though it only went 4 rounds. I also believe Marvin was robbed of the decision against Sugar Ray Leonard

116th Street and Second Avenue. I ate there with my Dad just about every Friday afternoon for almost thirty years (EHI already knows this).

I grew up in the Bronx, 187th and Hoffman, but my Dad grew up in East Harlem, Pleasant Avenue, between 117th and 118th. My grandparents lived in that building from the day they arrived in this country until the day each of them died, almost 70 years! So I know the area well, and I feel like I grew up there myself. When my grandmother died in 1991, she was already one of the last Italian born women in the neighborhood.

Re Rao's: Overrated. I've posted this before, but I've eaten there twice and it was no great shakes. Family style NYC Italian. Nothing you can't get at Dominick's in the Bronx or Bamonte's in Brooklyn for half the price (not to mention that you can just walk right into those places).

Re Changing neighborhoods: No one who grew up in a cold water tenement walk up (like I did) would want the same for their children. Anyone who posts otherwise is just being a sentimentalist who obviously grew up in the suburbs. Italian American assimilation is a good thing.

these greatest fighter debates divider people as much as politics. marciano was great in his day, but if i'm being honest, i think a prime hopkins as well as a slew of other fighters from middleweight to light-heavy would have their way with him. different eras, and as much as i hate to say it rocky was not much more than a 1-dimensional slugger who happened to be around at a time when the competition was almost laughable. he was very tough, and had great heart however!

You guys should move this to the boxing thread before it gets out of hand .

Thanks for the responce Pizzaboy. Never eaten at Dominicks, been to Bamonte's when i was younger, honestly I dont remember much about the food haha. Who was that rapper who did a video outside Bamontes? It was one of those Mob Rappers from the bronx? I laughed my ass off when i saw that, Tony R was probably still in prison when they shot that or it never would have been there! LOL!

PB is spot on to what's happened here! There's only about a 1000 Italian/ Americans left. And a handful of Italian born, those who are are ancient!
As far as food La Corsa is excellent, on a E110th by Park!

Assimilation is great, however someone had to stay behind and collect the rents!

I have no earthly idea. I'm 53 years old. I don't really remember many rappers after the Sugarhill Gang .

But as far as Bamonte's goes, more cops and politicians eat there today than mob guys. I still live in the Bronx, but I get out that way once in awhile, and I've personally seen Ray Kelly (the NYC police commissioner) there twice. The Bamonte family is as straight as an arrow. No one is telling them who can and can not film there or, more importantly, eat there .

Great pizza .

Yes they do! They also make meat balls the way your suppose to. With Veal! They don't try and get fancy either! It's straight up good old Grandma Italian food! PB did you know they did the Giglo festival meal last year! You know, the one where you carry a 50,000 pound statue for a meal and bragging rights!

Ill have to find the link... That shit cracks me up! I wanna say his name is "G-Fella" or "G-Fellas" or some thing. Artist and producer of the new hit single "That's MOB"...

My father's on the board, you pineapple .

http://www.eastharlemgiglio.com/

Shit forgot! No wonder they got the job! Tell him I'm on the DL again this year! Thanks for the link! Didnt even realize it was that big of a deal! But let's be candid, with all the new inventions why can't they get a lighter statue! That thing is ridiculas! Summer of '91 was the rebirth? I think '91 anyway

PB what was the priests name? Farano or Rafaro? You need to help me win a bet! Got an idiot with me that is doubting my memory!

Because Italians are superstitious. They think a lighter statue would doom us all to hell .

It's really probably true! Tell the old man I want my Tee Shirt this year! Haven't had one in a few years. When I asked that Greaseball LoBosco told me "say a prayer to St Anthony to find it for you" he's still crying over poor Claudio having to move!

amen...I wish my grandfather can see me now, he came to this country with nothing and his grandchildren made a great life, we achieved the american dream...good post PizzaBoy, you nailed it

Love boxing debates... I loved the fighting style of Marciano the way he always fought hard start to finish and won alot of fights when he was behind on points with knockouts... but Sugar Ray Robinson was amazing...the amount of fights he fought, his longevity, and the way he fought makes him truly unique and definitely in the upper echelon of boxing royalty...

Nicely put!Paulie 'Walnuts' one of my favorite characters.Btw cant stand these coffie shop/restaurants or whatever they are...what happend to goin to the big time restaurants placed out of the neighbourhoods,even the clubs are dyin cuz of these locals.They work day and night non stop.First i gotta pass 10 of these locals,all placed one to another and than i can enter my building entrance and in the evening its realy freaky..underage drunk girls are puking infront of the elevator so in the morning when i get out for work i just sliiide away to my car

It's not about Italian neighborhoods disappearing so much as it's the degeneration of the family as a whole. Times changed and families aren't as close as they used to be. Everybody's off doing their own thing, coming and going in the house at different times. It's not the 50's anymore no matter what nationality you are.

This is true in Italy too. Families aren't quite they way they used to be over there anymore either. They're not as close as they used to be.

And as far as these coffee houses go...again, in Sicily, that's all you see. They're called Coffee Bars. You pick up an espresso and biscotti, sit, bullshit and leave.
Like Americans sit in bars to drink

Im not talkin about thouse traditional coffee houses,where usualy ppl sit down at day time,have a coffe and leave and after a while the cofee house close up.Im talkin about locals that at day time they r ordenery coffe houses but at night they become bars with live band performances and thousands of teenagers.The best joke is that on front door of the local says "No Booze for ppl under 18" and i only see 15-16 year old drunk kids,givin me tuff looks

In boston most of the italian neighborhoods o the old is moved to the north shore peabody middleton danvers etc the whole route 1 and all the irish from southie townies even dorchester moved south shore quincy wemouth duxbury brintree they just got away everett revere malden eastie roxbury north end was filled all ilalians not forget about ir nothing but colored folks latins cape verdeans its crazy and brockton always had a big italian prensence still do but far from being as tight as it used too....hey roxbury where my grandpa lived his whole area dudley st was ilalians up and down now be lucky to find one italian in roxbury lol but long lives the socail club lmaol unbelievable

what area in NYC has the highest Italian population today?
And were some neighborhoods in NYC in the 40s-60s 100% Italian?

Country Club Bronx, still very Italian. And to a lesser extent, so is Pelham Manor, Throgs Neck, and PARTS of Morris Park.

South Shore of Staten Island.

Howard Beach and South Ozone Park in Queens.

You ever learn in History Class the "White Flight"

Good point! Most feel it started after WW2! Call it '46 by the time they got back,setlled got there GI paperwork in!

Plus alot of Italians and other Non-Italians rented out their homes section 8!!! Cha-Ching!

The Bensonhurst, Dyker heights, and Bath Beach areas in Brooklyn still have sizeable Italian populations

Pelham Manor is in Westchester County. Are you sure you don't mean Pelham Bay? I'm just pointing it out because I believe that Nicky's question was about New York City.

By the way, Sharpie, are you a fellow East Bronx guy? Because you seem to take an interest in the neighborhood. Either way, welcome to the board .