Mobsters in prison

Hello all, first time posting here in about ten years. I am curious as to the treatment of modern day mobsters in prison. Obviously, the days of mobsters practically owning prisons ala Goodfellas is over. A few specific incidents thzt i recently read about have led me to wonder this,for example the Lucchese family working with the crips, particularly Perna reaching out to stop an associate from getting extorted. Another such incident is John Alite getting his teeth knocked out in prison. The incident that led me to post this, however, is Cleveland LCN member Allie Calabrese dying of a stroke after being beaten by another inmate. So basically my question is this, are modern day mobsters often targets of violence or extortion from other inmates in prison? Any insight on this, or the Calabrese incident in particular would be much appreciated. Thanks.

i doubt they are a target, i bet other inmates prefer to be friend of mobsters, the targets in prison are the most vulnarable people, not sure the mobsters especially the new york ones that have much power outside prison

first, it would depend on what prison and what area of the country we are talking about. with all of these mobsters locked up it would make sense that in some facilities they have high enough numbers to be left alone. like was mentioned earlier, mobsters have some limited alliances with street gangs, in that case the bloods not the crips.

these alliances benefit both parties as the mobsters are sure to have connections that the gangbangers would find useful on the streets and the same goes for the mob guys in prison. if i remember correctly the deal between the bloods and members of the lucchese family had to do with moving cellphones, drugs and other contraband into a state prison in new jersey through a crooked guard. another agreement in the deal was that apparantly a blood member was hassling an associate of the family and that needed to stop as well.

another point i should include is that there always seems to be alot of talk about how the gangbangers would be fascinated by the mobsters, the same as alot of us here. makes sense as you constantly here about all of this OG(original gangster) crap that these hoodlums preach. who is more OG than a mobster?

long story short, while mobsters more than likely have some problems in prison, i doubt they are being taken advantage of the same as some white kid fresh off the bus from the suburbs.

I don't have a clue but i'm guessing people who know they're spending the rest of their lives behin bars might target high profile inmates. The mafia has died down over the last decade or so but are still notorious because of the past not beig able to pose the threat they could've in the 30s-70s could make them vulnerable to people trying to make a name for themselves. Great question btw

Exactly. It's always the weakest gusy that get the worst treatment in prison. Mobsters are still street guys, so other inmates aren't going to mess around with them as much. And definitely not if the mobster is a member of a powerful family. Nobody messed with Gigante or Gotti when they went to prison (not until Gotti started acting up, anyways). If you're a well respected criminal on the outside, then chances are you'll be respected in prison.

Another thing to consider: Mafia members these days are locked up in federal prisons. This means that they are usually transferred to a different state (a lot of times across the country) so they don't have as much influence. Also, federal prisons tend to be safer then state prisons. They have less violent gang members, are better funded and are not as overcrowded.

Also, do mobsters form alliances with other Aryans/white prison gangs? I've read about this, but don't know if this is common or isolated incidents. It would make sense since everyone sticks with their own race in prison.

I would think so. After John Gotti was assaulted in prison by Walter Johnson, Gotti made a alliance with the Aryan Vanguard offered them between $40,000 and $100,000 to kill the black inmate who attacked him. In Gotti, the 1996 film shows John Gotti (Armand Assante) making peace with the leader of a black gang. I would imagine it mostly as a bunch of Italian-American mobsters doing time with no problems at all, but then there’s Lucchese crime family associate Tommy DeSimone was rumored to have killed four people while in prison. It really depends on the gangster incarcerated.

And Frankie Loc

I can see that happening.Wasn't Capone targeted in Alcatraz, and as mentioned, Gotti in Marion?
And what's a New York gangster going to to when he's locked up in some hell hole in Texas? Seems to me he's on his own.

Both Gotti and Capone instigated their troubles. Before that, they didn't have problems with inmates. If you have a cool head and are not perceived as weak, you shouldn't have much trouble in prison.

I thought Capone was out of his mind (or on his way) from syphilis at the time.

Capone was actually assaulted once for refusing to help another inmate escape. But yeah he was losing his mind due to the syphilis.

A good way to measure their power in prison would be to look at their role in prison politics such as drug dealing,assaults, gang disputes, prostitution and how many prisons or pens they play some role in these things.

i think in texas send only the most dangerous people from the east coast and in the maximum security prisons

alot also has to do with the prison itself. federal prisons vary tremendously is terms of harshness. example: gotti served his time at marion, a notoriously tough place to serve time. now compare that with butner, where carmine persico is serving time, which is considered very easy.

La Cosa Nostra as a whole is not nearly as powerful or as influential as they used to be. Granted, they are still strong and powerful in spots, but overall, they are not necessarily the top dogs, in or outside of prison. The demographics in this country have changed so much over the last 30-40 years, there are too many rival/competing criminal organizations around for La Cosa Nostra to claim "big dog" status.
Of course, a connected wiseguy would still demand a certain amount of respect by virtue of their membership in an organized crime family, but that membership in and of itself is not necessarily enough to hold sway over any other gangster in prison.
Outside prison, most gangsters thrive in their own ethnic enclaves, where they have clout, protection, and numbers. Put them inside a prison, especially a prison outside of their state or region, and they are basically just a number.
In terms of a guy like Gotti, even though he was a ruthless, degenerate gangster, I felt a twinge of sadness when reading about his assault at the hands of that black prisoner. Gotti, a member of one of the oldest, most ruthless Italian criminal organizations in the U.S, getting beaten down by some two-bit bank robber who couldn't hold Gotti's jock in terms of wealth, notoriety, or reputation.
But it just goes to show you that the joint can be a great equalizer, no matter who you are or who you are with!

It's like anywhere else these days, it's all about the $$$$$$$$. You pay the right guy or make arrangements for his family to get cash or whatever they need your good. The guys back then had power, they used it for peace of mind and protection. It's a what can you do for me world in the can!

I have been told by a non-LCN Italian inmate that LCN types are a mixed bags, some can stand on their own two feet (Tommy Pitera, and Carmine Persico for instance) while others are lame and "want no trouble" and will pay for protection (John Gotti being the biggest example, and some say Joey Merlino was paying off Mexicans for protection).

Strength is always in numbers in jail. When you don't have numbers in manpower you use numbers in dollar power. There is always the occasional loner in the can who doesn't take shit and everyone stays clear of!

Paying for protection is just seen as straight weakness in prison. You're really just being extorted, though I know lots of people in here will spin it otherwise.

Not if they know you got people on the outside that will make thier people pay if you don't do what you say your going to do on the inside! There's a huge difference between getting squeezed and a business arraignment! Huge!

In terms of a guy like Gotti, even though he was a ruthless, degenerate gangster, I felt a twinge of sadness when reading about his assault at the hands of that black prisoner. Gotti, a member of one of the oldest, most ruthless Italian criminal organizations in the U.S, getting beaten down by some two-bit bank robber who couldn't hold Gotti's jock in terms of wealth, notoriety, or reputation.
But it just goes to show you that the joint can be a great equalizer, no matter who you are or who you are with! [/quote]

Well thats how it is in prison look at california thats the most hardcore in the country.The leaders of the AB on the outside were low level losers who would of thought making 20 bucks was a good profit but once in prison they had nothing to loose so started making a rep for themselves.Most eme members are heroin addicts but control the streets of LA.So prison is a differant ball game then the street

Not really. If the guys who are protecting you approached you first, then you're basically being extorted. But situations like Nicky Scarfo or Joey Merlino paying some guys to watch their back while in prison is simply a matter of hiring bodyguards.

Anyway, mafiosi are not big targets in prison anymore than they run things. In other words, while it's not like what you see in Goodfellas anymore, there's few examples of LCN guys being abused or assaulted in prison; especially when you consider how many have done time.

I have family members who work in prisons, including my brother. My uncle was corrections officer from 1963 till 1991. My brother is one now, in New York state.
Mafia members in prisons have been discussed among us a few times. From what I have concluded listening to their stories, older mobsters doing time in 1960's and 1970's would take leadership roles among white inmates, not due to mob stature, but due to some being very rough men. They would not have absolute power, there is no one Mr. Big in any prison. They would share power, and as they all do today in prison, keep to self for most of the time. They are actually most quiet group, and cause least problems for officers.

Newer Mafia members in prison tend to fit description of suburbanites, and are not as tough as older ones were. They still are able to fight, and have respect. In prisons. No inmates, regardless of where they are from, or what their race or background is, really cares that a guy is from Mafia. How they carry selves is what counts. Today, as in past, they hang out with other white inmates, but will mix just a bit more than in past. They never pay protection. No inmates really do, because of fact that there is no one group able to control all other groups. Protection money would be wasted money. Others would just try to get some off them too.

The story of Gotti paying protection is not believed by anyone I spoke with. Consensus was that he could have done what is common for inmates to do if they have more money than others; they help out others who are around them. In regards to Gotti during his time spent in prison during 1970's for McBratney murder, no one we know remembers him. That would mean he just stayed out of trouble, and kept to self and with some friends. He did not run things, as some admirers of him might claim.

You summed it up well.

I've done time in state prison with guys with mob backgrounds and most regular inmates with non-OC backgrounds typically show respect if not straight-up swing off the guy's balls. billy b used to gloat when a guy would offer to take his trey up for him after he was done eating in the chowhall

Never paid protection? Ever know anyone who's done time? Not just worked there? I'm talking been an inmate? Because I know a few thousand and they all have stated that's how it works. Currency in jail comes in many forms, money, drugs, phones etc!

I think that makes the most sense.

Currency in jail/prison comes in many forms. Stamps,food,commissarry items, but also if someone's in debt,they can have theyr people on the street send a money order to the person they owe. or also i remember being able to fill out a slip to transfer money strait from my own personal account

Amen! Spoken from someone who ACTUALLY KNOWS! No third hand, National Geographic BS! Thanks SouthEnd!

Check your pms, EHI.

Spot-on.

No offense, Jace. But prison guards aren't generally the sharpest knives in the drawer. No offense to your family. I'm sure they're all bright enough. I'm just speaking in general terms. I never met a hack who wasn't an imbecile or a steroid head. Or both.

No offense ? You straight out imply my family who work as prison guards are imbeciles, and steroid users, but preface it with "No offense?" I offered some insight, and don't mind someone disagreeing with it. You went too far.

What do you mean by "National Geographic BS?"

I don't think it's really correct to generalize that way. There have been prison guards or directors of prisons who had been killed by organized crime for threatening the system of privileges for mafia bosses established inside the prisons, they weren't stupid at all if they managed to bring the entire system under threat. For example, Giuseppe Salvia killed on orders of the camorra boss Raffaele Cutolo or Sergio Cosmai killed on orders of the 'ndrangheta boss Franco Perna.

Spent 7 years in federal prison, 5 in Marion and 2 in Leavenworth. In reality it breaks down to group size. Marion did not have a large LCN population, so the mob guys I met were pretty low key, didnt look for trouble and were pretty much left alone. At leavenworth there was a larger LCN population with several lifers, they were much more involved in prison politics. I do know that protection is paid, when I first went it, it was cigerettes, then they made it smoke free and it then became stamps and commisary primarily. I know there were at least two guys in leavenworth that I knew who gave some AB guys 150.00 in commisary a month for protection. No one messed with the LCN guys as far as I saw.

while its always unfair to generalize a group of people, prison guards, especially in the past, don't have the best reputation as far as honesty goes. this has definatly changed in recent years, but that field is still prone to tons more corruption than most other professions. the combination of low pay, and a very dangerous and stressful job can lead many to go astray. add to that the fact that some end up as disgruntled CO's because they weren't able to become police officers for whatever reason, and you can have the perfect storm for dishonesty.

my brothers friend worked as one for a short time at NJSP, a horrible place where the "iceman" did the majority of his time, and some of the stuff that he told me that went on was sickening. bottom line, while its unfair to label all prison guards as corrupt and mentally unstable, i think that you would be hard pressed to find even 1 moderately sized jail/prison in this entire country without some kind of fuckery going on related to the staff!

<----- the guy to the left was a CO......

Did they mess with you ?

I read somewhere that an entire wing in Norfolk Prison in Massachusetts was dedicated to LCN and those guys lived good.

One guy even had his dog in there with him. I wish I could remember where I read it...

A dog? You read this in the National Inqurier! A dog? I know an inmate at Norfolk, Matteo Trotto look him up if you doubt it. I will ask him next time he calls!

The arm! Whos the leg?

I was referring to this article Flacco

Why was he the arm?

Honestly want to know? Put it this way, Angelo Melici has shirts that he tucks in one arm! Pizza can tell the rest

But he won't .

certain Federal prisons i guess if theres enough of them that they can still be considered a threat.

I think things started to change within the state prisons during the late 60s into the 70s. One incident in particular demonstrates this.
Rahway Prison 1972, mafia kingpin Anthony "little pussy" Russo and his crew acquired some stolen narcotics that were taken from the prison hospital.These drugs were made cheaper for whites than they were to black inmates. Black inmate teddy gibson and his guys find this kind of discrimination no longer acceptable and decide to act.

Russo and several of his associates are jumped in the mess hall by Gibson and co.Russo is stabbed in his lower back along with rosario miraglia. Vince Fenick , Harry Schultz and Charlie heilig are also stabbed and piped.The next morning Mike Masucci is attacked by black inmates and has a chunk of his lip cut off.

No one died but it demonstrated the changing demographics and shift in power.

Scorsese Mobster or no Mobster things are getting worse in a lot of prisons not better because the state sold out and their privately owned scary

I wasnt commenting on the state of prisons now, im guessing your right about privately owned facilities more profit even less obligation to care, i was just making a post about mobsters in prison in general.

It's not exactly true. There's a unit in Norfolk i forget which exact block but its where guys like Freddy Simone,Ricky Costa,Anthony Clemente,Billy Angelesco and guys like that did theyr bids a little more comfortable than the rest of the inmates at Norfolk,which is a nice stop to begin with compared to other MA. prisons.

I've heard from guys who were there at the time that Joey Testa had a lot of juice while he was in Terre Haute,Indiana

South, no dogs?

Does the crime that a mobster commited effect how he is treated in prison? I know some of these guys have rape on their criminal records, as well as crimes on the elderly, normally inmates who have convicted of those type of crimes get some trouble for it so Im wondering if its the same standard for wiseguys?