Why do we have 28 fams???

New York (5 ones)
Buffalo
Rochester
New England
Philly
Buffalino (Northeast PA)
Trafficante (Tampa)
Dallas
New Orleans
Chicago Outfit
Detroit
Madison
Rockford
San Jose
San Francisco
L.A.
St. Louis
Kansas City
Colorado
Cleveland
Pittsburgh
DeCavalcante (New Jersey)
Milwaukee
Sprinfield

If there was 26 LCN families, why do we have 28 if we count all of them? Maybe I think It's because Sprinfield and Madison were not families, but just OC groups with LCN ties, kind of like the Seatle Italian gang. Madison was said to only have two men in it. So they couldn't have been LCN. The Springfield guys were said to have only a few dudes, too.

you were right with regards to madison and springfield never being independent families, just made guys from other famolies operating there. ive heard a little about seattle but if you have any info please share.

Yeah, I do believe Springfield were Chicago guys and Madison I'm not sure.

No info on Seatle, but just know they were a gang of mostly Italian guys, but some Irish and Native-American hoods. Some think just because they had some Italians in it that they were LCN.

There is some confusion as to how many families there were. Some say 24 while others say 26.

springfield was genovese guys made guys more then just a couple too just for the record.

Here's what Pogo posted over on the RD a while back during a similar discussion...



1. Genovese

2. Gambino

3. Lucchese

4. Bonanno

5. Colombo

6. Chicago Outfit

7. Buffalo

8. Philly

9. DeCavalcante

10. Providence/Boston - They started out as seperate families before merging together.

11. Scranton/Pittson-Bufalino

12. Pittsburgh

13. Tampa/Traficante

14. New Orleans

15. Cleveland

16. Detroit

17. Kansas City

18. Milwaukee

19. St. Louis

20. Denver/Pueblo - They were once seperate families but later merged together.

21. L.A

22. San Francisco

23. San Jose

24. Dallas

25. Rockford

26. Rochester (from the mid 60s-late 80s)

27. Madison - Its debatable wether they were their own family or just an extention of Milwaukee.

28. Springfeild - Its debatable wether they were their own family or an extention of the Chicago
Outfit. They were likely their own family in my opinion at least until Boss Frank Zito died.

29. San Diego - They didn't last past Prohibition and were eventually obsorbed into the LA family.

30. Newark - They were disbanded by NY in the early/mid 30s and absorbed into the NY families.

31. Tuscon- This was a small family/crew established by Joe Bonanno and his son Bill after they left NY that was independent of the NY Bonannos.

^^^^ Pogo is the best.

Yep i believe him and nj together would work very well.

You're talking about Springfield, Mass. The other Springfield (Illinois) had a small family under boss Frank Zito.

Madison was absolutely a family. In the early 1970s, FBI files contain references to the Madison family being disbanded around '73. The family had been low key/borderline inactive for a period of time starting in the mid 1960s.

"31. Tuscon"

A crime Family in Tuscon run by Bonanno and his son after they had left New York???
Kinda laughable, if you ask me. That claim should be labeled with a warning sign "Contains crap!"
Ivy, (or anybody) please do me a favor. Post this overthere so Pogo the clown will know he has been handed a subpoena to come in front of this board to explain himself. I will give him immunity.

ScottD, I was wondering...when doing research on the Tampa Family, have you ever come across any hints on a crime Family in Alabama? Allegedly, this Family was disbanded sometime around 1935 when the bosses could not find new recruits. The only prospect was a youngster of 74!

First, it was simply an exhaustive list to include all possibilities; not necessarily Pogo's opinion. Second, Pogo is one of the most knowledgeable and informative posters on the mob. Most charts (legit ones anyway) you see on the internet came from his research. I used to think I knew a lot about the mob until I met Pogo.

Well, then he shouldn´t claim there was a Family in Tuscon, after Bonanno´s retirement if he is just speculating. He could have used the word "possibly" or as he did on the list in some cases, "debatable".

I told him.

Don't forget the possibly apocryphal Birmingham, Alabama family that Bill Bonanno claimed existed.

The Clampetts?

^^^that is hilarious!!!!

I get off a good one now and then .

This is a gun!

Again, he wasn't necessarily claiming there was a family in Tuscon. It was an exhaustive list to include all possibilities rather than one where semantics were the issue.

And obviously he is not the only one that believe in the faction, such as th fbi.

I'm just passing along what Bill Bonanno claimed about Birmingham. Don't shoot the messenger.

In the 1980s, FBI wrongly believed Fat Tony Salerno was head of the Genovese Family. Even the FBI gets things wrong, Danny.

You do PB!
However, considering the existence of the Mafia in Dallas, New Orleans and Tampa (of all places) makes me not want to brush aside the idea of a once established Mafia Family in Alabama.
After all, the first Mafia Family in US was established in New Orleans in mid 19th centuary. The Family in Alabama (if it existed), could have been an offshoot of that one.

You cant blame good managment in a criminal organization on the FBI, if the rats think he is the boss the the FBI thinks he is the boss, simple.

The Alabama family is claimed to existed all over the internet, but once i found out about Salvatore M picture i dont believ much i read on there. Bill Bonanno did talks about them dying out in his last book.

He's not 'blaming' anybody. He's simply pointing out that even the FBI makes mistakes every now and then and isn't all knowing.

I am aware of that what i am saying is that only a select few knew Fat Tony wasnt the boss. They set up the front boss position for the exact reason of misleading LE. They accomplished their goal for many years also. Hell everyone thought Tony was the boss, that why he was in the commisssion case. Was the Chin even named in the case?

If the feds targeted Salerno, that does not mean that they weren't aware of the Chin being the real boss. They will practically go after any big name to show off with to the public. Salerno, being just a front or not, was still an achievement in the public's eye. And for the feds, it's all about achievements. It's just a game of cat and mouse they like to play over and over again.

Yes Sonny. I think that might be the case. Salerno seems to have been the boss for a short time in the beginning of the 1980s before being bumped down. I don´t know the details, but perhaps the feds started to build their case against him already back then with wiretaps and collecting of other evidence. When it was time for indictments, the feds (knowingly or not of the fact that Salerno had been bumped down) wasn´t willing to discontinue what they had started.

And Chopps, you´re a stand up guy. Appreciate it.

Was the Chin named in fhe commission case? Not trying t argue, serious question.

No he wasn´t. And for the record, I know you´re not trying to argue.

When do you consider Chin became the boss? If anyone even knows what was going on on the westside in the early 80s.

Yeah. Gee... Salerno suffered a stroke in 1982. So I figure Chin was made boss sometimes right after Salerno´s illness.
There was a thrid player also. Philip Lombardo. But he seems to have retired sometimes around 1981 and moved to Florida. Lombardo (who I believe had functioned as boss during the 70s), could have briefly served in an acting capacity for some months or so, before Chin took over. (Perhaps)

As I understand it, Fat Tony was set to become boss but had the stroke before he actually assumed the position. When he was recovering, Chin took over as official boss. I think this was around 1981 or so. Which is also the year Cafaro said Lombardo stepped down. The feds didn't know Chin was the official boss until Cafaro revealed it when he flipped in 1986.