Most powerful mob boss of all time?

In terms of wealth, soldiers, and influence who would you say was the most powerful mobster of all time in the USA? Al Copone? Tony Accardo? Carlo Gambino? Luckey Luciano? Someone I am forgetting about?

Thank you for your time.

Maybe Frank Costello if influence really weighs as much as wealth.

All things considered, probably Luciano.

Hard to say, but Frank Costello is the first guy that comes to mind.

Frank Costello comes to mind, then again, The Chin tried to take him out so I dont know exactly how powerful he was.

Lucky Lucciano, but again, some say he was taken out when he had his "heart attack"

Believe it or not, Joesph Massino needs to be mentioned in any Mob boss conversation in terms of power.

Also, The chin,he had a great deal of power.

You absolutely have to say Carmine Persico, he has held the top spot after 30 years in the can

i would say Luciano but.. he got 40 years or somthing ( yeah he got out, but anyway..)
he is just made cosa nostra thing in usa..

so the great leader would be Carlo Gambino any Tonny Accardo no doubt.

I take it you dont like what I said. So be it, I was simply explaining my opinions as the thread was a question asking for what we though.

Logically speaking anyway...

What? I FUCKING LOVED IT!!! The comedy you bring to this place is stellar. You're like the Clouseau of organized crime discussion. Thank you.

The Chin did not try to take out Costello because he wanted to seize power. He was a young impressionable thug at the time who was ordered to do it by Vito Genovese (who I believe to be the least powerful boss of the family named after him...think Luciano, Costello and Chin).

Although not exactly a "boss," I would say that an argument could be made for Lansky.

After Costello, I would say that Gambino, Chin and perhaps Joe Bonnano are close behind. Not really sure where Tommy Lucchese would fit, but I am pretty confident it would be somewhere near the top.

For me it would be Tony Accardo. And of course Gambino and Tony Corallo.

I was watching a youtube documentary on the Outfit and a detective whos name I forget said he believed Accardo to be the most powerful Don in the country because the Outfit was a monolith whereas NY had 5 families. What do you guys think? Was the Outfit more powerful than any 1 of the 5 families out of NY for that reason or not?

Have you heard of the Genovese crime family?

The correct answer is...Vic Amuso.

jvanley has provided me many a good laughs!

santo traficante may have not been the most powerful out of everyone but def wielded power. held the top spot for years. angelo bruno as well. i know everyone is gonna say the chin, gambino, and arcado but i like to go against the grain and mention people who are not getting recognized. vic amuso.....the only thing he deserves is a medal for getting played like a set of spoons. casso the ultimate master of puppets. it's been debated that metallica wrote that song about casso.......vinny your prob the only one that will see that joke!

I go with Gambino - died of natural causes and grew the organizaion is terms of money and power.

Ya know, I am usually pretty good at telling when someones being a dicknose or is telling the truf. Here though, between Phat and Vinng G, I honestly cannot tell.

So lets leave it at this....

If you think I am funny, thank you, I enjoy you guys a shit ton as well, I really do.

If you think I am an idiot and are secretly making fun of me, then let me in on the secret so I dont continue to fist myself by making dumb comments.

Oh, and go fuck yourselves as well if its the latter.

if we're not going with the obvious old-school depression era guys like Luciano and going w something more modern, Carmine Perisco is definitely worth mentioning. Dude has held down the top spot despite numerous tests for over 30 years. Been in the can for like a generation already and still had and has guys loyal to him on the street that does what he says. They're obviously not the most powerful crime family and have done some horrible, disgusting and sometimes downright idiotic things, but the bottom line is even when his leadership is contested Carmine still ends up on top. theres something to be said about that

Gotti - as much as people didn't like him - was more of a shot caller than people realized. making capos travel from upstate or Connecticut every week just to come to mulberry street and kiss his ring, being able to compromise basically any Jury, things like that...say what you want about how he was and the stupid things he did but his clout was enormous. average people in the city loved him and the ones that didn't still picked up the DN every day to see what was said about him. When it came to money and day-to-day operations he wasn't greedy, he spread "wealth" around to guys in the family, and a lot of guys loved him. the ones who didn't like Failia had to eat crow and still come to Mulberry street

Chin was more powerful in completely different way, sure, but Gotti did survive a Chin-driven assassination attempt, and still did whatever he wanted to do despite how disgusted the Chin was with him. And at the end of the day...BOTH went to jail and died.

You know, some people know a lot about this subject. IvyLeague is one of these guys. PB is another one. I'd like to think I know what family is the most powerful and who the top leaders leaders in that family were. I'd also like to think I know who Joe Massino is and when I hear somebody mention Massino's name when discussing the most powerful mafia boss of all time!, I can't help but wonder if that person is suffering from a severe head injury. I mean no disrespect, I have a cousin who is like mildly retarded and we all love him very much. He's also hilarious. Great person and to me, you are a great person. I love you man.

weren't you just warned in another thread about attacking members? something about religious stand points? any way i just meant that i sometimes get a chuckle about the things you post. i deeply apologize for any hurt feelings.

good thing jon gotti never met your cousin...i think he may have a few choice words for him!

It seems that people don't know what real power is. People look at John Gotti and talk about how he made everybody come see him every week. Then there's people who talk about Carmine Persico and admire him for his ability to maintain his title as boss of the most dysfunctional and most rat infested family of recent times. This is merely power within a family, it's not admirable and it certainly ain't real power. Real power is Lucky Luciano, Frank Costello, Meyer Lansky. Real power is owning Tammany Hall, appointing judges, having lawmen on your payroll, controlling the biggest labor unions in the country, having world leaders like Batista in your back pocket, getting control over banks and starting your own. That's real power. Getting Jackie Nose to wipe his ass with a rabbit is not real power. It's ridiculous.

I remember reading a story about Costello. A hotel manager advised Costello that his use of the sauna was no longer welcome, due to complaints from customers regarding his reputation. Next day at the hotel, no one showed for work. The manager contacted Costello, apologized profusely and told him he can use the sauna as a long he wanted. Costello told the manager that he had no influence with any unions.

John Gotti. Obviously...

Wow, this is a tough one. Most powerful in terms of his overall reach? I'd have to go with Capone, Accardo, Momo, Trafficante or Marcello --the old time bosses had a lot more power than the bosses in the post-RICO age ...especially the last few bosses on my list -- these guys pulled scams on the CIA, had high-level relationships with government officials....they ruled over a lot more than their families...Probably Trafficante Sr. or Jr., I couldn't say. Gotti had no respect from the Genovese/Lucchese families, I can't agree with you, Sonny Black, Gotti was a creation of the media. I will add I don't think Massino should have killed you because of Joe Pistone....It was really Mira's fault; Mira the maniac vouched for the guy and people accepted it, especially Lefty. Sonny Black came along after Pistone should have long been vetted by other members...I think Massino wanted the power, which was gravitating from Rastelli to Sonny more than to Massino -- Pistone was Massino's excuse to get rid of a competitor who would've been next in line for boss.

Never really understood that whole "monlith" argument about the Outfit. Yes, it had Chicago to itself. As did some 20 or so other families, which had their own cities. This doesn't mean that any of them were more powerful than any of the New York families.

I'm not saying it's even true but what is so hard to understand? Chicago is a major city with a population of roughly 6-7 million and it's underworld was ruled by one family. NY is another major city with a population of roughly 10 million and its underworld is ruled by 5 families. So the argument is very clear that the ratio of wiseguys to the population they rule favors Chicago. I know other cities only have one family but none with a population even close to that of Chicago, other than Los Angelas but for whatever reason the Milano brothers never reached the heights of gangsters from NY, Chicago and Philadelphia ect.

So Ivy, I assume you hold the belief that Gambino and the Chin had more power than Accardo? Again I'm not saying you are wrong or that I disagree but you clearly know what you're talking about so I am interested to hear how you arrived at that conclusion.

I understand the argument people are trying to make when the talk about the Outfit having Chicago all to itself. It's just not a very good one so I don't know why they use it. As if that fact alone automatically puts the Outfit over any of the New York families. In my opinion, there was a time when the Outfit was probably comparable to any one of the three smaller New York families. But probably not either the Genovese or Gambino families. And it's not comparable to any of them today.

It's hard to compare the relative power of bosses who headed their families at different time periods. For ones that were contemporary with each other - say Gambino and Accardo - I'd say Gambino, for any number of reasons. But the original question was who was the most powerful boss of all time. You usually see the same names put forth. I don't know if a single one could be picked out of the group. But if so, as I said, I would would probably choose Luciano, all things considered.

Totally a joke man, relax.

its hard to relax when i just got done crying for 2 hours because of ur hurtful remarks!!!!! u need to start being funny again!

Anyone who does not think that Joe Massino had a great deal of power is wrong, in MY opinion. I am not talking about Joe Massino back in the Pistone days,I am talking Joe Massino when he got out of the can and until he got pinched again days, 10-12 years I believe.

When you talk about "most powerful" you certainlly have to talk about era's and time frames. Because if you dont, then its Al Capone first and everyone else second.

With that said, from around 1994-2003ish Massino was very powerful, overall terms of power.

See Vinny is right, some people think if power within the family vs power "reach" beyond your family. I happen to be the one that thinks of power from within your family and how you are held in regard by the other LCN families.

Is Massino the most powerful boss of all time? Hell no. My point was that if you are having a conversation about powerful bosses, his name should be brought up.

It would be interesting to see what the results would be if you asked the same question to Selwynn Raab, Jerry Capeci,Gene Mustain and a few wise guys who have flipped over the days and see what they say. Ask the question the way it was asked though, not the explination that Vinny gave us about his def of power.

My point is that even though Vinny is probably right, thats what true power really is, I think if you ask the same question without the explanation, you will get many names you wouldnt expect, including Massino.

Although Frank Costello is on my list of the most interesting mob figures, I'm not quite convinced about his power.

In many stories written about him, they all explain that the power he had within his own family was limited and they he had to rely on other strong figures to provide him with muscle.

For instance, how could a guy like Genovese move him to the sideline so easily if Costello was that powerful?

However, all things considered, also explained by Vinny earlier on, he was certainly a very powerful "person", but we talk here about the most powerful "mob boss".

I would say Luciano and Gambino come first, then most likely Accardo.

ANTHONY ACCARDO
BENNY 'SQUINT' LOMBARDO (the real Genovese boss)
or
DON CARLO GAMBINO

TAKE YOUR PICK - THOSE ARE 'THE' CHOICES...PERIOD

The reason I bring up Costello is because he had more people than his own family. This is the guy who probably bribed more politicians then any other boss. He owned judges and mayors. At one point, he had direct access to the White House. His influence was felt on almost every level. Costello started to have problems after the Kefauver Hearings and that is when he started to lose power. Then came Vito's little rebellion and we all know what happened next. The years I am looking at are the ones between 1946 and 1950. Lucky had been deported and it appeared to be very difficult for him to run the family from another country. Costello was now the guy to see. The most politically connected man in the mob was now the boss of the most powerful mob family in the country. A strong case can be made for Luciano, but a lot of empires had been built after his incarceration in 1936 and because of his incarceration, he didn't get to enjoy the power of a free man. His fame had also become a problem. After all, not many people want to be associated with a known mafia boss, especially if you're a politician with great ambitions. Between 1936 and 1950, Frank Costello was not only a free man, but he was virtually unknown to the public.

You certainly make a strong point. But shortly after his deportation, Luciano was still running things for a while and Costello was officially just acting boss right?

I say Philip Lombardo for many reason,he was thereal boss of genovese family for maybe 20 years,his true position in the family was not known to law enforcement until years after his death. Through the use of front bosses Lombardo was able to keep a low profile and run his family from behind the scenes for more than twenty years. His ability to stay out of the limelight is a trait that many other mobsters wish to possess,sis only conviction was for drugs in the 50s,when his health began to get worse, he retired to Florida, leaving the power to vincent gigante, who continued to use front boss.


(yes,my 100th post) Furio from Naples

costello was a genius with gambling & labor rackets but when it came to muscle he wasnt that great.....

Well said and succinctly put. It would have taken me at least 1 or 2 paragraphs to make the same point.

It is said he preferred diplomacy over violence. Problem is diplomacy doesn't always go over too well when you're dealing with criminal psychopaths. It's amazing he lasted 20 years at the top. He's one of the few bosses who could have been successful in the legitimate world.

In regards to Costello, isn't it generally accepted that a lot of his muscle came from Albert 'The Executioner' Anastasia? Apparently, Albert was furious with Vito after the bungled hit and this was one of the reasons that Vito and Gambino collaborated to have him whacked? Of course, Gambino then turned on Genovese and apparently had him framed...twice!

I think you have to look at historical context when discussing who was the most powerful mob boss of all time. The Chin would spring to mind as far as post-RICO bosses go. Carlo Gambino would have to be up there and I am also going to throw Big Paul Castellano into the mix. Granted, we all know what happened to him but let's not forget that Gotti and his supporters were scared shitless of Paul's power...particularly the fact that he had Roy DeMeo and the Westies at his beckon call. People berate Big Paul as supposedly being soft etc but let's look at the facts here...this guy had one of his daughter's boyfriends taken out because the boyfriend apparently said he physically resembled a butcher that Castellano knew.

He relied on Willie Moretti and Albert Anastasia for muscle, but some people fault him for not keeping Vito in check. He also had strong allies like Luciano and Adonis, but as they diminished in influence he became vulnerable.

Amazed most of you disregard Capone. At his height no one was even close in power and wealth. At one time he walked into a police station and said does anyone in here want to arrest me for anything. This is when his war was at its height. Nobody wanted to mess with him. He had police, judges, politians and newspaper on his payroll. It was hard to find any one who would say something bad about him or try to arrest him.

There are to many NY 5 family lovers in here. Yes the 5 families are strong. Yes they have had some great and powerful bosses. There has always been power struggles within those families. You never had that within Capone family

Capone's reaction to the Albert Anselmi uprising was basically an early 3 capos murder. Most of what you say is true, but the 5 families didn't have to wipe out entire rival gangs either. The same thinking that led to sinister power struggles helped bosses in the 5 families end external wars quicker than Capone. Unfortunately, don't have any facts on his power or wealth at the moment. How much influence did Ricca inherit from Capone?

Tony Accardo because of so little jail time
Carlo Gambino because of sheer number of rackets he controlled, and again so little jail time
Vinny Gigante because of this day and age, the little jail time and holding the family together in the age of rats

John Stanfa was the powerful boss, ha you know that's joke how about Rocco Perri the bootlegger.

1. lucky luciano
2. frank costello
3. carlo gambino
4. tony accardo
5. tommy lucchese

J Geoff is the most powerful mob boss of all time.

I certainly agree that Capone in his prime was one of if not the most powerful boss but he certainly had rivals. George "bugs" Moran was at war with Capone. Why is an internal struggle any worse than a struggle with a foreign faction? How many foreign factions have openly tried to go to war with any one of the 5 families?

Wow, good call on Rocco. I'm surprised you know of him as not many people outside of Ontario have heard of him before. He was most definitely the most powerful boss in Canada during his prime which was a good 20 years.

Case in point. When Capone was asked if he had ever heard of Rocco Perri he replied "I don't even know what street Canada is on"

I'd say at his peak Carlo Gambino had that city locked up more then any other mobster up to that point. Gambino had the political connections second only to maybe Costello imo. Lucchese is another one who had the politicians in his pocket but Gambino and Costello used them like no other.Gambino was one shrewd guy who built an empire only to leave it to Castellano and then to Gotti who practically turned the Gambino's into a second class family by the time he was done. Carlo must be spinning in his grave watching what that idiot did to his empire.