After Failures, Government Officials Play Blame Game

By SCOTT SHANE, The New York Times

WASHINGTON (Sept. 5) -- As the Bush administration tried to show a more forceful effort to help the victims of Hurricane Katrina, government officials on Sunday escalated their criticism and sniping over who was to blame for the problems plaguing the initial response.

While rescuers were still trying to reach people stranded by the floods, perhaps the only consensus among local, state and federal officials was that the system had failed.

Some federal officials said uncertainty over who was in charge had contributed to delays in providing aid and imposing order, and officials in Louisiana complained that Washington disaster officials had blocked some aid efforts.

Local and state resources were so weakened, said Michael Chertoff, the homeland security secretary, that in the future federal authorities need to take "more of an upfront role earlier on, when we have these truly ultracatastrophes."

But furious state and local officials insisted that the real problem was that the Federal Emergency Management Agency, which Mr. Chertoff's department oversees, failed to deliver urgently needed help and, through incomprehensible red tape, even thwarted others' efforts to help.

"We wanted soldiers, helicopters, food and water," said Denise Bottcher, press secretary for Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco of Louisiana. "They wanted to negotiate an organizational chart."

"We're still fighting over authority. A bunch of people are the boss."
-Mayor C. Ray Nagin of New Orleans

Mayor C. Ray Nagin of New Orleans expressed similar frustrations. "We're still fighting over authority," he told reporters on Saturday. "A bunch of people are the boss. The state and federal government are doing a two-step dance."

In one of several such appeals, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, Democrat of New York, called on President Bush on Sunday to appoint an independent national commission to examine the relief effort. She also said that she intends to introduce legislation to remove FEMA from the Department of Homeland Security and restore its previous status as an independent agency with cabinet-level status.

Mr. Chertoff tried to deflect the criticism of his department and FEMA by saying there would be time later to decide what went wrong.

"Whatever the criticisms and the after-action report may be about what was right and what was wrong looking back, what would be a horrible tragedy would be to distract ourselves from avoiding further problems because we're spending time talking about problems that have already occurred," he told Tim Russert on "Meet the Press" on NBC.

But local officials, who still feel overwhelmed by the continuing tragedy, demanded accountability and as well as action.

"Why did it happen? Who needs to be fired?" asked Aaron Broussard, president of Jefferson Parish, south of New Orleans.

Far from deferring to state or local officials, FEMA asserted its authority and made things worse, Mr. Broussard complained on "Meet the Press."

When Wal-Mart sent three trailer trucks loaded with water, FEMA officials turned them away, he said. Agency workers prevented the Coast Guard from delivering 1,000 gallons of diesel fuel, and on Saturday they cut the parish's emergency communications line, leading the sheriff to restore it and post armed guards to protect it from FEMA, Mr. Broussard said.


"Why did it happen? Who needs to be fired?"
-Aaron Broussard, president of Jefferson Parish, south of New Orleans

One sign of the continuing battle over who was in charge was Governor Blanco's refusal to sign an agreement proposed by the White House to share control of National Guard forces with the federal authorities.

Under the White House plan, Lt. Gen. Russel L. Honoré would oversee both the National Guard and the active duty federal troops, reporting jointly to the president and Ms. Blanco.

"She would lose control when she had been in control from the very beginning," said Ms. Bottcher, the governor's press secretary.

Ms. Bottcher was one of several officials yesterday who said she believed FEMA had interfered with the delivery of aid, including offers from the mayor of Chicago, Richard M. Daley, and the governor of New Mexico, Bill Richardson.

Adam Sharp, a spokesman for Senator Mary L. Landrieu, Democrat of Louisiana, said the problem was not who was in command. FEMA repeatedly held up assistance that could have been critical, he said.

"FEMA has just been very slow to make these decisions," Mr. Sharp said.

In a clear slap at Mr. Chertoff and the FEMA director, Michael D. Brown, Governor Blanco announced Saturday that she had hired James Lee Witt, the director of FEMA during the Clinton administration, to advise her on the recovery.

Nearly every emergency worker told agonizing stories of communications failures, some of them most likely fatal to victims. Police officers called Senator Landrieu's Washington office because they could not reach commanders on the ground in New Orleans, Mr. Sharp said.

Dr. Ross Judice, chief medical officer for a large ambulance company, recounted how on Tuesday, unable to find out when helicopters would land to pick up critically ill patients at the Superdome, he walked outside and discovered that two helicopters, donated by an oil services company, had been waiting in the parking lot.

Louisiana and New Orleans have received a total of about $750 million in federal emergency and terrorism preparedness grants in the last four years, Homeland Security Department officials said.

Mr. Chertoff said he recognized that the local government's capacity to respond to the disaster was severely compromised by the hurricane and flood.

"What happened here was that essentially, the demolishment of that state and local infrastructure, and I think that really caused the cascading series of breakdowns," he said.

But Mayor Nagin said the root of the breakdown was the failure of the federal government to deliver relief supplies and personnel quickly.

"They kept promising and saying things would happen," he said. "I was getting excited and telling people that. They kept making promises and promises."
---------
This is gonna get ugly. And I love Hilary. Thoughts (on the article, not me loving Hilary) ?

No need to play the blame game. (Or love Hilary for that matter... :p ) The government and FEMA f*cked up. Plain and simple.

While I realize that the federal government needed to be readliy available early on, the laws of this country are writtien to protect the people within the states from giving the federal governement carte blanche in coming into a state and taking charge on their own. Legal steps must be taken under those laws which requires that the elected leaders of the state must take the legal steps in requesting that federal level government come in and take control. These procedures within the law were NOT taken by the state leaders until the 11th hour. Again, if the state leaders had taken these steps in requesting that federal level governement be ready to come in if the hurricane had destroyed the state ( which it did of course ), then the federal military and federal agencies would have been in there as soon as the hurricane passed. But getting back to Mr. Chaetoff's statement above, I don't agree that the current law written the way that it is to protect the people of the state from coming under federal control without state request, should be changed or altered in any way.

Hillary is an opportunists poilitician, and she knows damn well that the public is currently outraged at the lack of leadership shown in this thing from the begining. So she's just riding the political concensus for her own gain. However I do agree that somewhere DOWN THE RAOD, and NOT RIGHT NOW, that an investigation of some sort take place on who dropped the ball here. But I can save this government a lot of money, THE GOVERNER OF THAT STATE DROPPED THE BALL HERE! End of story!


If that is the case then ALL those involved in making that desision for FEMA should be held acountable. That's just plain outright irresponsible. negligent and criminal!

The major blame begins with your Governer Mr. Nagin. Bottom Line. No plan in place at state levels, no REAL mandatory evacuation procedure implemented until the night before the storm. Don't let me start.


The LOCAL governemt and FEMA f**ked up.


Oh and by the way, maybe someone should do an investigation as to where Hillary was when the Senate got together late at night to vote on approving $10.5 Billion dollars in aid. She was up in Syracuse N.Y.

Hypocrite. :rolleyes:

Don Cardi

I'd like to add that the mayor of New Orleans dropped the ball big time on this issue.

Well I'm no expert in protocol in this kind of thing, but have been doing some research and I am learning a little.I too have heard Blanco (Governor of LA) getting the blame, and the Mayor of N.O. and the President. In the end, I'm sure there will be plenty to go around, but I just wish the media would report everything.

Anyway, I found a couple items relating to when this situation was known.

This is Governor Blanco declaration State of Emergency in N.O. on 8/28


Blanco\'s State of Emergency

The reply from the President regarding Governor Blanco's letter asking for assistance:
8/28/05 Bush acknowledges Emergency and issues Federal Aid

President re-iterates Federal aid

Governor Blanco's official request the DHS take charge 8/28/05

web page


TIS

Excellent research TIS!


Now tell me something, if you were the Governer and a Hurricane was being tracked for 10 days, and 5 days before it all your weather experts are saying that this thing is a category 5, do you wait for the day before to declare a state of emergency and ask for federal assistance? Do you wait less than a day before to issue a mandatory evacuation? I would think that anyone with a half a brain would have done this several days before the estimated time for the hurricane to hit. Especially when you know that there are that many poverty stircken people in an area where the levees were built to handle only a category 3 hurricane. If the governer had made this request for federal assistance several days before the estimate time that the hurricane would hit, the federal military and the national guard would have been on standby and ready to go in as soon as that hurricane passed. I'll even go one step further; Had she declared a MANDATORY evacuation several days before, the authorities could have gone in there and MADE people leave, and the rescue effort would NOT have been as bad as it turned out to be because of the lack of leadership in evacuating those people before the hurricane hit.

There is no question that those who were negligent in taking the proper procedures and following proper protocol should be investigated, But right now I feel that the main objective is to figure out what to do with all these people, how to get their lives back on track, and how to rebuild that city.

There will be plenty of time down the road to ask the who screwed up questions, but right now we need to sak the what are we going to do for them questions.

Bottom line is that no matter who screwed up or who dropped the ball, this is a damn horrible disaster and a real damn shame that so many people are going through this.
It's really sad.

Don Cardi

DC,
Do you really think that the city of New Orleans can be rebuilt? Just imagine what is happening to those buildings that have been covered in water up to their roofs. First of all, if there are thousands of dead bodies in there, then think of the disease being spread. Also, what about the mold that has GOT to be destroying those homes. I would imagine that many of those buildings are going to end up being demolished.

Hey DC,

Actually, I agree with you. Yet, I've been hearing reports that this request on the Governor's part was after the hurricane hit. Like I said, in the end there will be plenty of blame to go around I suspect. Anyone who was negligent should not escape some kind of reprimand.

However, when it got to the point of people begging for food/water for their children, I'd expect help from the highest power come hell or high water (no pun intended). Paperwork/redtape should be thrown out at that point IMHO.We don't treat our fellow man like animals.


TIS

Yes TIS, common sense tells us both that! Screw the red tape and the bullshit paperwork when human lives are at stake. I agree. But unfortunately we live in a world where many people, not all, but many just lack the common sense needed at times and are afraid to step up and put thier asses on the line when split decision time confronts them.
Dumb, spineless, morans.

I'm sorry, it just makes me sick that so many people had to suffer and die because of stupidity, negligence and spinelessness.


Don Cardi

TIS, That's so true! I think the part that we, as outsiders, are finding hard to believe, are the stories of doctors that are down there and have yet to be assigned to help anyone, volunteers being turned back, trucks with supplies not being allowed through, at the same time that we read about people dying from thirst, heat exhaustion and lack of medical care. It's beyond comprehension.

Tell you what! If I had supplies like water with me or I was a doctor who was being told that I had to wait and could not go in there until "Proper protocol" was taken, they'd have to lock my ass up because I'd bust through those assholes who are telling these people this kind of shit! Sometimes in life you HAVE to kick some ass to make people wake up to what's going on around them and what's at stake. Especially when human life is at stake!!

Sensless assholes!


Don Cardi

You know the people there (actually everyone in N.O. I assume) knew of the possibility of a big hurricane. I equate that with living in CA. Everyone has been told the "big one" WILL strike. I've heard that since I moved here 25 yrs ago. Everyone knows it's possible. Yet everyone goes on with their lives, not thinking about it.

I imagine, like with CA, it was one of those things that you don't think will happen in your lifetime and/or you just don't think it'll happen to you. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, this has made me really think about survival should it really happen. How devastating that would be. I'm in the process of making more "definite" survival plans with my daughters, should it happen and we are unable to make contact (not to mention food/water, since now I know I could be left for a week without any), as to how we can get to each other.

Seriously, this has gotten to me.

TIS

Louisiana requested federal funding during the mid-1990's for rebuiling and modernizing in anticipation of the results of an event such as Katrina. The money never came through, it was apparently decided to be put to better use for other things.

I can't quite recall who was President back then.

Apple

Let's not forget that the New Orleans citizens who pay taxes could've had that tax money pay for better levees. Instead, that money was used to rebuild Baghdad, Iraq.

Pat, show me where ANY state senator, mayor, governor ANYONE from that state asked Congress for money to do it.

I never said they did, but they should have.

Pat the state taxes that LA took in, or the city tax that New Orleans took in could've been used to build better levees. Don't try to pin this on the whole war in Iraq situation.

Pat the state taxes that LA took in, or the city tax that New Orleans took in could've been used to build better levees. Don't try to pin this on the whole war in Iraq situation. [/b][/quote]::pinning it on the Iraq situation::

I was looking at the pictures of Fairhope, Alabama and it doesn't look any better than New Orleans, the only difference is that it is not such a big city. When there is going to be a Hurricane of this size that can do damage to more than one state, how can one only blame the local government for it?

I remember about Tsunami a fellow member was complaining as why government didn't evacuate the region before it hit the area. Now comparing the time and the advanced knowledge of this disaster with Tsunami and looking at it that way, I don't see how federal government shouldn't be blamed for this. But apparently as I stated there shit happens, no matter what.

Afs,

First of all you cannot compare what has happened in one country with another in regards to procedure and protocol. And if you've taken any time to read my posts about procedure and protocol as is required under the law within the United States Of America, then you will understand exactly why local government must take the blame on this one.


Don Cardi

From some stories that I've read in local newspapers here and one that I heard in particular on radio, the State was shorted something like only $100,000 from the federal government back in the nineties which rendered them impotent in advancing with the upgrades for those levees. But that's hindsite in my opinion. I'm sure that if a thorough research was done, one could find many imperfections over the years in regards to this state aquiring federal funding for the upgrade of those levees both at a local and a federal level. The question now is why didn't local government declare a mandatory evacuation with time to spare which would have allowed them to go in there and take these poverty stricken people out of there with transportation provided by the government? Why didn't that governer follow proper protocol, several days before the hurricane hit, to secure federal assistance which would have been in place to go in there once the hurricane passed? I think that these will be the questions on most everyones mind once a real investigation gets underway.

Don Cardi

You don't mean to tell me that in the event (god forbid) of a major terrorist attack on an American city, that city will have to wait a couple of days before receiving federal assistance while "procedure and protocol" are followed?

If there is a difference in the procedures to be followed in the event of a terrorist attack vs. a natural disaster, then clearly these procedures need to be changed.

Whatever mistakes were made by the local government in not ordering mandatory evacuation (and I'm still unclear about exactly how people with limited financial means and no means of transportation are supposed to evacuate, where they're supposed to go, and how they're expected to pay for it), anticipating their needs and planning in advance, etc., the federal government must bear a great deal of responsibility as well for their inability to cut through the red tape and respond immediately as they did in NYC in the aftermath of 9/11

New Orleans is a major American City which was in need of immediate federal aid following a disaster, just as NYC was after 9/11. I don't recall any "waiting period" then.

Of course I see the difference between this case and 9/11.

One was impossible to plan for or anticipate, while the other, to some extent, was.

But if the federal government was able to cut through the red tape to help NYC immediately, they should have been able to in this case as well.

It's almost as if they were punishing New Orleans for the mistakes made on the local and state level.

EVERYONE needs to take the blame on this. To sit hear and worry about who needed what permission and from whom while thousands of people starved to death in 4 days is pathetic. There should be jobs lost at all levels.

This is not a time to be playing politics, worrying about what hillary was doing at what time. Of course, no one gives a rat's ass that Ms. Rice was f*cking watching plays and buying expensive shoes at the time all of this was going on. Why cut her vacation short.

And I could slap Barbara Bush for going on national television saying nobody better bad mouth her boy in front of her. ESCUSE ME!!! Mothers watched their babies die in front of their face, others don't know where their's are, and we're supposed to worry about hurting her son's feelings? She better bring her flap jacket if I ever see her. That's just pathetic.

On 9/11, which was an unexpected attack, Gov. Pataki was immediately in touch with Mayor Guliani and offered up service of the National Guard. That same morning. On 9/11 and in its aftermath, the Governor and Mayor worked together for days before the President was able to join them on that pile of rubble at Ground Zero.

Last week after Katrina and once the flooding began, the Gov. of Louisiana and the Mayor of New Orleans were unable to communicate because not only was all power out, the the Gov. hadn't had the foresight to be in posession of satellite telephones, which might have been the only means of communication between the two. Therefore, the Gov. had no idea what was going on in New Orleans, and no idea that this city and its citizens were in desparate need of help.

Days later, the Mayor of NO after having shown little to no leadership other than recommending evacuation BEFORE Katrina hit land...had the nerve to meet with the Gov and President and tell them to get their heads together and think of something to help him out.

Local government.

That said, it is true that the President should have acted and brought in the Federal Gov't several days before he did.

Apple

DC,

It is not that I didn't read your post or that I don't know how things work in the US since I lived there enough to know all of these. It's just that I think when a disater of this size is going to happen that would have impacts on more than one state, feds should step in to take similar actions in all states in the endangered area. That's not their duty, but when it comes to lives of citizens, it becomes their responsibility.

By your judgment that I don't argue with, the governor of LA is to blame, so is the governor of AL, et al. But I also put blame on feds. They should have taken matter of such size into their hands before the local government.

The reason it makes me ticked off is that I've a small family and some friends in Alabama. Now I've checked on everyone and all are okay, some just didn't have electricity for a day. But when it comes to life of your loved ones, you can't hear "that was not our fault" argument.

NEW ORLEANS FLASHBACK: OFFICALS WARNED RESIDENTS 'YOU'LL BE ON YOUR OWN'

Mon Sep 05 2005 18:57:15 ET

Before residents had ever heard the words "Hurricane Katrina," the New Orleans TIMES-PICAYUNE ran a story warning residents: If you stay behind during a big storm, you'll be on your own!

Editors at TIMES-PICAYUNE on Monday called for every official at the Federal Emergency Management Agency to be fired. In an open letter to President Bush, the paper said: "Our people deserved rescuing. Many who could have been were not. That's to the government's shame."

But the TIMES-PICAYUNE published a story on July 24, 2005 stating: City, state and federal emergency officials are preparing to give a historically blunt message: "In the event of a major hurricane, you're on your own."

Staff writer Bruce Nolan reported some 7 weeks before Katrina: "In scripted appearances being recorded now, officials such as Mayor Ray Nagin, local Red Cross Executive Director Kay Wilkins and City Council President Oliver Thomas drive home the word that the city does not have the resources to move out of harm's way an estimated 134,000 people without transportation."

"In the video, made by the anti-poverty agency Total Community Action, they urge those people to make arrangements now by finding their own ways to leave the city in the event of an evacuation.

"You're responsible for your safety, and you should be responsible for the person next to you," Wilkins said in an interview. "If you have some room to get that person out of town, the Red Cross will have a space for that person outside the area. We can help you."

What you say is not wrong, by any means. We ARE talking human lives here. But this is they way our government is set up and structured. It is set up this way to protect the people of the state from falling under federal government control without state request. Ironic but really sad is that it is set up this way to protect the people, and it wound up hurting them.


Don Cardi

That's my point exactly.

I never said that the local and statte governments were not to blame as well.

And I'm just wondering if in the event of another terrorist attack on a major American city, the procedure and protocall will be followed as it was in this case.

Probably, as it was on 9/11. When the GOVERNOR ordered in the National Guard as soon as it was deemed necessary. When the GOVERNOR and MAYOR were in direct contact with each other.

But...let's hope you never have to find out the answer to your inquiry.

Apple

Probably, as it was on 9/11. When the GOVERNOR ordered in the National Guard as soon as it was deemed necessary. When the GOVERNOR and MAYOR were in direct contact with each other.[/b][/quote]Well, if that's gonna be the case, then as I said earlier.....

In the event that there is such a situation, I thnk we need to change the procedures so that federal aid is immediate, without the procedures and red tape.

That's my point exactly.

I never said that the local and statte governments were not to blame as well.

And I'm just wondering if in the event of another terrorist attack on a major American city, the procedure and protocall will be followed as it was in this case. [/b][/quote]So let me get this straight Plaw, someone like yourself, who is a HUGE advocate of not allowing government to have a big say in the lives of the people, and not allowing the federal government to "bend the rules" in extreme circumstances is now saying that the federal government should have thrwon aside all procedure and protocol implemented under our laws of the land and just do what they deemed neccesary by thier own judgement without following the law?

Actually I agree that under extreme circumstances the federal government should do what needs to be done, stat!

But what puzzles me is that in the past I've said this in regards to fighting terrorism, but you have always challenged me about that, stating that laws and proper protocol should never be pushed aside no matter what.

Very interesting.


Don Cardi

"I thnk we need to change the procedures so that federal aid is immediate, without the procedures and red tape."

Interesting, yes. But also quite typical.

Apple

I agree that when it comes to a disaster like this, or an attack on our country the federal government should be allowed to take action without local requests having to be made. I think that in a situation like 9/11 the federal government can take action to protect the country.


DS

I don't disagree with that.

My reply to Plaw was in the "spirit" of political consistancy. Plaw has always admiringly been a consistant advocate for what he stands up for and believes, no matter if you agree with him or not. And I just found it out of the ordinary that he would abandon his consistant nature in this case. Not taking him on or trying to disagree with him, just asking him why he would advocate procedure, protocol and rights in the case of catching and prosecuting terrorists, but will now abandon those same pricipals and beliefs.


Don Cardi

Aiding the victims in New Orleans is not "giving the government a huge say in people's lives".

Besides, don't many of the social programs that I favor, by your definition, give the government a huge say in people's lives?

And there's a big difference between an immediate emergency in which people are dying, and a situation in which our civil liberties are compromised in the name of the war on terrorism.
Of course the rules should be bent in extreme circumstances. But the bending of the rules should be appropriate to the situation at hand.

The tragedy in New Orleans and the war on terror are both extreme situations.

But where it would have been a proper and appropriate response for the federal government to act immediately in the case of New Orleans, I don't IMO, believe that The Patriot Act, for example, is a proper and appropriate response to the events of 9/11.

And finally, there is no requirement that I be consistent in my views. Just because I feel one way about one issue, that doesn't require that I feel the same way about another issue which is completely different.

As you know, I have many views which can be labeled as Conservative.

I believe in a laissez-faire economic policy with an absolute minimum of government interference in business. I believe that if someone owns a two family home and doesn't wish to rent the upstairs apartment to a member of a minority, or a homosexual, or whatever, that's their property and their business. I believe that if someone owns a busines, and doesn't want to hire a minority member or homosexual or pregnant woman or whatever, it's their business and their decision.

"I thnk we need to change the procedures so that federal aid is immediate, without the procedures and red tape."

Interesting, yes. But also quite typical.

Apple [/b][/quote]As is the reaction of some posters to say "This is not the time for blame..." then two post later to say "I think you'll find the local government was to blame..."

Now it may be different in the States (and probably is) but I generally understand bureaucracy, red tape, procedures and protocol to be internal rules of an organisation and not necessarily framed by the laws of the land.

It's also interesting to note that outside the USA (for which I know quite a few of you don't give a hoot ), the general view is one of disbelief that the United States appears to be dealing so poorly with a major disaster in its own backyard.

Fair enough Plaw. I just wanted to understand where you are coming from.

But to quote your sentiments from many discussions in the past, where do you draw the line in deciding when to bend the rules and when not to?

I do agree that when it comes to the threat to human life, rules sonmetimes must be thrown away and common sense needs to take over. And sadly to say in this case common sense was not used by many involved.


Don Cardi

When do you people "outside" the USA ever have a positive view of our country? Oh, yes, when you need us to help you all out!

Who the hell are you to pass judgement on my countrys response to a horrible disaster like this?
Actually, in case you overlooked it once the GREAT AMERICAN MILITARY did get in there they saved tens of thousands of lives within a day and a half. But you wouldn't mention that because people like you are so blineded with your hate for us and you just jump at the opprotunity to step on us when something happens to us.

Tell me, what has your country done to contribute to the lives of the humans affected by this disaster?


Did you bother to make one post offering your sadness for what happened?


Im sick of the anti American posts that seem to flow all over the boards in the past few weeks.

DS

DS,

Did you really expect anything different? There are those extremists out there who were celebrating and thanking ALLAH for "striking" the USA when this happened! :rolleyes:

There are some American haters around the world who are now naming their newborn daughters KATRINA!

Know what? Who gives a damn. Time to take care of our own and say "too bad" to those who hate us.


Don Cardi

When do you people "outside" the USA ever have a positive view of our country? Oh, yes, when you need us to help you all out!

Who the hell are you to pass judgement on my countrys response to a horrible disaster like this?
Actually, in case you overlooked it once the GREAT AMERICAN MILITARY did get in there they saved tens of thousands of lives within a day and a half. But you wouldn't mention that because people like you are so blineded with your hate for us and you just jump at the opprotunity to step on us when something happens to us.

Tell me, what has your country done to contribute to the lives of the humans affected by this disaster?


Did you bother to make one post offering your sadness for what happened?


Im sick of the anti American posts that seem to flow all over the boards in the past few weeks.

DS [/b][/quote]Whoa there compadre...DS, if you thought that my post was in any way anti-American you need to lie in a darkened room for a few hours. I know even from these boards that millions of Americans are expressing the exact same sentiments. But I understand your over reactions to my post. I know you're feeling vulnerable.

Oh and I'll tell you what gives me the right to comment on your response to Katrina...I'm a human being watching other humand beings die. Comment, compassion, anger etc are not emotions exclusive to citizens of the USA.

Jeez you guys are touchy. I can't remember every one of my 850-odd posts but I'm struggling to remember one that I would consider anti-American...cue copies of 150 posts!!

By the way who or what is a "Picayune"

Guys, lets remember we're an international community here and everyone has a right to voice their opinions (even if they take a contrary view to what appears to be a majority here). If you're gonna get that bent out of shape by hearing one or two of those differing opinions please stay out of political discussions on these boards.

Senza,

Did I make a specific reference to you in my post?

Are you an Islamic Extremist? Have you named your child Katrina?

I was speaking in general when I replied to DS's post and if it appeared that I was making a direct accusation towards you, then I apologize.

Unless that is that you fall under the people in the world that I was reffering to.

Don Cardi

I'm sorry. I guess that I am still hurt by all thats happened and I let my emotions get the best of me. I just feel that there are people around the world who are happy that this has happened in our country. I shouldn't have taken it out on you SenzaMama.

SC, you are right.


DS

Sorry DC, I thought the "did you expect any different" referred to me directly. Let's take a deep breath and count to ten. 48 hours ago you and I were agreeing on things!

Let's lighten things up...what is a Picayune??

Fuggeddabout it man. DS I take the view let's get everyone out of there, implement a plan to recover the bodies, bury or otherwise the dead and then let's redden a few official faces (and beleive me, con or lib, Dem or Rep I'm all for that )

The bitch of it all, DS, is that I can see where the rest of the world would think we're not very adept at handling our own tragedies. I would only hope their (foreign country) presses are carrying the same coverage now that we're getting a grip on things in New Orleans.

We're cool. I think that many of us here in the USA and in the world, including DS, are just shocked and hurt about this and we tend to become a bit sensative and react to things said without really thinking. Emotions sometimes take over for us when they really shouldn't.

A Picayune is a person who looks to Pick on everthing.


Don Cardi

I hope so too.


DS

SC, this is a huge news story here as well. Last night it took up more than half of the main nightly news bulletin. I mostly watch the BBC and rather than comment on the rights and wrongs of the relief effort for the most part they've been reporting what commentators in the States have been saying...on the rights and wrongs of the relief effort

A Picayune is a person who looks to Pick on everthing.


Don Cardi [/b][/quote]You mean like a liberal??

A lot of the press here is crucifying various levels of government on the relief effort (and in our system of checks and balances that isn't a bad thing). In all fairness now, especially on the Federal level, the government got its ass in gear and the relief effort is moving on like no other country in the world could do. Sure, it took two days longer than it should have, but its happening now and its only fair that foreign presses report it as such.

Ok it's been pointed out to me that Picayune is a city near New Orleans

Thats pretty good.... Picayune is a small town in Mississippi, about 50 miles away from New Orleans.

Ok it's been pointed out to me that Picayune is a city near New Orleans [/b][/quote] I thought that you were asking what the phrase "Pickyune" meant!

Sorry about that!


Don Cardi

For those who are interested (or care) about other what other countries are saying, I found this article.

Even tho I don't think we are accepting foreign help, I am pleasantly surprised that we got the offers we did.


How Can This Be Happening In America


TIS


*Note to Goombah - I can't pm you back becaue your mailbox is full. You're quite popular evidently. Check your e-mail.

I just heard some disturbing news about this. The President had contacted The Governor on the Sunday before the hurricane hit and told her that he would get her ANYTHING that she needed from the federal government. He asked her on Sunday to take the proper procedures and adhere to proper protocol and to sign the executive order requesting federal assistance from the federal government. She did NOT sign and submit that executive order until Wednesday! WHAT THE HELL WAS THIS WOMAN THINKING?


Don Cardi

I'll tell you, this has given me more respect for the way that the State and City of New York worked with the federal government after September 11th. Many people are unhappy with Pataki now, and glad that he's not running for another term, but I think that the way that things were handled in LA should make us appreciate what was accomplished here even more.

SB, you are so right. I'll never forget how quickly Pataki, Giuliani and Kerik coordinated not only with each other, but immedeatly with The President and the federal government. The leadership shown by Pataki and Giuliani was superb that day and the days following. They held the spirit of this city and it's surrounding areas together.


Don Cardi

Absolutely true, DC. While the aftermath of September 11th also made me cry, I remember being so proud to be an American and a NYer. The aftermath of Katrina has left me only sad and angry. I am proud of the way that we as a people have rallied to send help and volunteer our time and money, but the reaction of the government has just pissed me off. It has disgusted me to see the suffering and deaths that could easily have been avoided. Since when do we leave our dead on street corners, covered in sheets? Or, worse, like I saw on Oprah today, just left abandoned on the shoulder of the Interstate to rot in the sun, like so much garbage. Such indignity! It's just disgusting.

I share your feelings SB, believe me.

But what we must try to do is to focus on the number of people that were rescued and saved. Otherwise we'll make ourselves nuts.

All in all whe you really look at this,the progress that was made in such a short time once the military came in was fantastic. Within 1 day of them being there they rescued something like 10,000 people and were able to move all 40,000 people out of that Horror Dome. That's quite impressive when you really think about it.


Don Cardi

Too little, too late, IMHO. This is not supposed to be a country where we pluck babies from the raging water, only to have them die a few days later because there was no water for them. Water!! Go into any 7-11 and there are gallons upon gallons of it!!

I know that we need to think about those that did survive. We have to think about what they will need to rebuild their lives. And we need to get them whatever it is that they need.

But we also need to learn from this so that it never, ever happens again.

Every article I've read and every news report I've seen has been critical of the federal government to some extent.

Even President Bush himself has been critical.

The biggest defenders of the feds that I've heard have been right here.

That's an impossible question to answer.

You have to take it one situation at a time and evaluate each on its own, based on the circumstances involved.

'Nuff said.

Of course the mainstream media is going to have their day being critical of the Fed Gov't...why dare waste an opportunity for Bush-bashing.

What we have not seen is equal criticsm of the local govenment, the Mayor/Governor for not being better prepared for the flooding disaster, for sitting around twiddling their thumbs waiting for the Feds to show up for not putting an organized plan into action. As was the case on 9/11 which was a completely UNEXPTECTED event.

That's all well & good in theory. But unfortunatly it's not how things work in the real world. The country has a Constitution, each state has its own individual Constitution and neither can be run effectively by evaluating each 'situation on its own, based on the circumstances involved'.

And even taking your well intended statement at its face value...if that is true, then the Gov. of Louisiana had been prepared enough to evaluate THIS situation on its own, based on the circumstances involved, then she would have made sure the city of NO was given particular attention with regard to the levees, and when they broke would've made sure she had sufficient communication with the city, and would've ordered in the National Guard days earlier.

Apple

Listen, this stupid bitch that wants to call herself a governer has still not relinquished control over to the federal government. What in the world is this imbecile thinking???? End of story.

The buck stops there!!!!!


Don Cardi

Whoa Whoa Whoa....relinquished control?

C'mon, doesn't the Federal government remember that certain lesson from Civics class called "Supremacy Clause" of the Constitution?

You know, the Federal government always trumps a state government in matters of authority.

Then again, I'm just confused about the whole matter.

Wrong.


Don Cardi

Wrong?

You mean in a crisis-situation, like now?
Or always?

Aaaw, painful.
Where did you get this info from? And where in the world were the people with that kind of "humor" :rolleyes: ?

I've explained the governmental procedure in many posts over the last week or so. You can scroll back to find it.


As for the KATRINA naming of children, well this has been reported on several talk radio shows. Mostly being done in the extremist muslim world.


Don Cardi

Watch to the end. Bastards.

That is so awful and sad. Just one more story to be added to the endless stories of heartache. And someone does have to be responsible at some point.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/07/national/nationalspecial/07barbara.html

I posted this one in the New Orleans-thread. Didn't know it was a non-political thread. Sorry.

A stupid and insensative thing to say. Plain and simple. People need to think before they speak.

Don Cardi

I agree politics aren't important right now. The people alive have to be helped first, and installed as best as possible.

But after that, someone will have to explain very good why things didn't run like they should have. You all know who 'someone' is. I really don't want to say it's on purpose, or what else BS, but he/goverment/others made big mistakes.

And to end a quote of an important Republican. It's in my own words, but it came down to this:
"If we weren't even prepared for something we saw on coming for days, what in earth will happen when there's a nuclear attack?"

You mean SHE.


Don Cardi

Sorry, both.
I admit that I don't know how much the President was involved. But the fact that she did all kinds of things wrong, means he didn't do correct her, means he wasn't as present as he should have been about that. Which makes him 'guilty' too .

You mean SHE.[/b][/quote]"She" did, but so did "He".

Do you seek to absolve Bush of all responsibility? Even he himself says that he was "not satisfied" with the response of the federal government.

Absolutely, unquestionably, and without a doubt, New Orleans and Louisiana officials should bear the brunt of the initial responsibility and failure to act.

But I think it's fair to say that the federal government didn't exactly pick up the ball in a timely manner after the local officials dropped it.

The Bush presidency has been characterized by by what conservative NY Post columnist John Podhoretz today called

"A management style which is to vest extraordinary trust in the officials working for him - a system that only works when you have first-rate people in your emply, which Michael Brown, the astonishingly brainless moron running the Federal Emergency Management Agency, clearly is not.

For these failings, Bush has and will be held responsible. If he wishes to be given credit for his managerial presidency when it succeeds, he must take the blame when it fails."

You could also argue that FEMA never should have been folded into the Department of Homeland Security, whose main objective is counter-terrorism, not action in the event of a natural disaster.

As I understand it, FEMA's budget has been cut every year since.

Plaw, I am not trying to say that the President is not reponsible for anything that's happened here, but I would like you to explain to me WHERE and HOW he dropped the ball?

Don Cardi

Because, regardless of WHO dropped the ball initially, citizens of the USA were stranded on the interstate, or lying in urine and feces-covered floors in the Superdome or Convention Center for DAYS without food or water. Lawlessness prevailed, teenagers rampaged with assault rifles, and people had to resort to crime to keep their families from dying in front of their eyes.

I don't care if LA was supposed to sign a piece of paper or not. When the director of FEMA says in a TV interview that they were UNAWARE of the dire situation, then there's something wrong with the system. What it will take to fix it, I don't know, but I heard and saw him say it with my own eyes and ears. And when the reporter incredulously said, "Unaware? Don't you or anyone else own a TV or radio?", his response was that the agency first learned of it FACTUALLY on Friday. Sorry, that's dropping the ball from a federal standpoint.

You want the top job in the country, you want to be the most powerful man in the world, then, as Harry Truman put it, "The buck stops here!"

He personally did not drop the ball, this FEMA guy apparently did.

And as Podhoretz wrote it today's Post,

For these failings, Bush has and will be held responsible. If he wishes to be given credit for his managerial presidency when it succeeds, he must take the blame when it fails."

....the FEMA guy.

A few excerpts from the Boston Herald, Saturday, Sept.3

"The federal official in charge of the bungled New Orleans rescue was fired from his last private-sector job overseeing horse shows.

And before joining the Federal Emergency Management Agency as a deputy director in 2001, GOP activist Mike Brown had no significant experience that would have qualified him for the position.

The Oklahoman got the job through an old college friend who at the time was heading up FEMA."

"Before joining the Bush administration in 2001, Brown spent 11 years as the commissioner of judges and stewards for the International Arabian Horse Association, a breeders' and horse-show organization based in Colorado."

"Brown was forced out of the position after a spate of lawsuits over alleged supervision failures."

George W. will have lots of 'splainin' to do when this mess is over.

Fair enough. I agree with that assessment. In hindsight there is no question that it was a BIG mistake putting FEMA under The Department Of Homeland Security. And yes, Bush does share blame for his administration implementing that under his watch.


Don Cardi

And they were worried about Bernard Kerik taking the job as head of Homeland Security because he had an illegal working for him as a nanny. :rolleyes:


Don Cardi

Then again, those same taxpayers probably should've been upset that billions goes to welfare and whatnot each year. After all, they could've used better levies!

I had no problem with Kerik, except that it looked kind of stupid to have a guy in charge if homeland securty and trying to keep the illegal aliens out, who had an illegal alien working for him personally.

But I thought he would have done a good job. So would Rudy, as much as I disliked the guy as Mayor.

Mmm, yes, I agree with Rudy pretty much except for his pro-choice views. But he would've made a decent DHS secretary.

Kerik just got caught with his nanny ala Jude Law :p

Then again, those same taxpayers probably should've been upset that billions goes to welfare and whatnot each year. After all, they could've used better levies! [/b][/quote]I'd rather hand out free money to Americans rather then Iraqis. I don't know about you.

Then again, those same taxpayers probably should've been upset that billions goes to welfare and whatnot each year. After all, they could've used better levies! [/b][/quote]I'd rather hand out free money to Americans rather then Iraqis. I don't know about you. [/b][/quote]Oh, silly. It's not free.

Honest taxpayers are the ones supplanting welfare and SSI.

How about someone who was an honest taxpayer for thirty or forty years and then gets sick, can no longer work, and depends on the money he or she gets from SSI?

And yeah, as you pointed out to Patrick the money is not "free".

So perhaps he should change his statement to read "I'd rather hand out tax money to Americans rather then Iraqis. I don't know about you."

Of course, it would be a fair argument to make that since we destroyed Baghdad, we have an obligation to rebuild it. I don't suppose I would disagree with that.

BTW, to "supplant" means to replace. I think you mean "supporting".

Don Cardi

i dont mean to get into any sort of political debates ill leave that to dmc; however, i agree with don cardi

i find that for people such as clinton,reverend jessie jackson, ted kennedy and the such to use such an event for their own political means of pushing bush out of office or advancing their own political position or whatever the reason is despicable. some time in the near future when all of the facts are together would be the correct time to point fingers and to adjust what should be done the next time. now is the time to help those who had the misfortune of losing all they had worked for and those who are still stuck in the state

Hillary is demanding an investigation. Ok, I think that many questions do need to be answered. But she seems to want one right now. What should we do, pull the fema people out of the effort right now, pull those in local government out from where they are needed right now? How much money will an investigation and hearings cost the taxpayers? This is not the time and Don Cardi is right, she is just taking advantage of the situation right now for her own political gain. If she is so concerned about these people then why didn't she take the time last week to go down to washington to vote on the 10.5 billion dollar package? No, she was absent from that vote and instead she decided to stay in Syracuse. I guess that there was no opportunity for her own political gain in that vote.


DS

I love to see both sides exploiting or spinning the f*ck out of this situation.

Hillary Clinton and several other Democrats demanding an investigtion, and besides blaming all levels of government for the aftermath, Presidente Bushie is the biggest culprit.

Meanwhile, many Republicans try to blame the coincidently Democratic Mayor of New Orleans and Governor of Louisiana for not responding fast enough, etc....its not Bushie's fault!

Really, am I the only one that thinks EVERYONE blew it?

What's wrong with this image?

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/08/katrina.mexico.ap/index.html

First of all you need to get your facts straight before making claims like this. The Governer happens to be a REPUBLICAN! So your theory about Republicans "coinicidently blaming" members of the other party holds no water. Sorry.

Now to your statement that President Bush is the biggest culprit, well why don't you tell us why you feel that the President is the biggest culprit. Back that statement up with factual reasons.

Don Cardi

Who says that I think that?

I'm just reporting what I've seen in the news media, of how everyone is blaming everyone else for what happened.

Besides, maybe the President's administration wasn't on the horn fast enough about what was happening, or didn't act fast enough or declare immediate balls-to-the-walls action...

Who knows, but come on...everyone f*cked up.

As for the Republican Governor, wow...the same party enchons in D.C. cutting that Governor's term to bits, damn. What happened to the spirit of partisan defense?

Talk about a spin reply! WOW! You made a statement about Bush, then you deny that YOU said that. You accuse the Republicans of laying blame on the governer because she is a Democrat, and when I inform you that she is a republican, then you want to know why the republicans are not living up to the partisan spirit!

When are you going to contribute something solid to these political conversations? When will you ever answer a direct question or make a post backing it up with fact?

If you do not know our Fedral and State laws and procedures by now, then you obviously have not been following this thing very closely. It's been explained and talked about all week long everyday. On TV, radio and here on these boards.


Don Cardi

So Senator Clinton wants an investigation? So she might be exploiting this for political gain? Hmmmm.... and I don't suppose the Republicans ever did that... Puh-leeze, be real. That's what politicians do. All I know is, there sure as hell should be an investigation, and whoever is responsible should be to blame. However, as RRA stated, there's more than enough blame to go around, and there's probably blame to be had at every level, city, state, and federal.

That said, DC, you asked Why should Bush be held the most responsible, see my earlier post. If he's the top man, then he gets the most blame. Sorry, that's the way it works. If you're the top guy, and you put in place the people who let this happen, then you take the blame.

Don Cardi [/b][/quote]Those were ironic, I think.

Sorry, With all due respect, I don't buy that for one moment. If President Bush had decided to "overide" the laws of our country that say that the Governer is in charge of all state issues until he or she asks for and signs an executive order, and went ahead without a governer signed executive order, you know damn well that the democrats would be calling for his head and would be SCREAMING that he broke the law and should face impeachment. And rightfully so! You know it and I know it.

The President asked the Governer, point blank, 2 days before that hurricane hit, what she was waiting for to issue a mandatory evacuation and to sign an executive order to request that the federal government be allowed to come in and take over. Till this very post she has YET to sign that executive order! Now tell me why ANY PRESIDENT should take most of the blame for the this????? Up until yesterday the mayor had not declared a mandatory evacuation! Tell me why ANY President should take most of the blame for that?????


And yes, there is no question that all of these whores in Washington, Republican or Democrat, are opportunists who maipulate whatever they can for their own political gain. No side is innocent. But Billary is out of control right now. I heard her on radio today DEMAND that an IMMEDEATE investigation be taken by an independant commission. Yeah, ok Senator Clinton, we'll pull out all of the FEMA workers, ALL those involved in the rescue efforts and the planning, and all of the governers and mayors of these cities and states and make them ALL stop working on getting these peoples lives and cities back in order. :rolleyes:

But Senator Clinton, I must ask you, if you are soooo concerned about the welfare of these people and are sooo concerned as to why this was allowed to spin out of control, then why were you not present to vote on the 10.5 billion dollar package that they needed as soon as possible? Was it because you were campaigning in Syracuse New York? Oh yes, I see, that's more important then the money needed for those desperate people who've just lost everything that they ever had. But just blame the President, that's all.

I agree 100% that an investigation MUST be done. No doubt about it. But can we please have an investigation somewhere down the raod, after we've been able to take care of and handle this disaster?

She's a bitch, plain and simple.

Don't get me started about her because my famous Sicilian temper will come out!


Don Cardi

I understand your point about the governor, and that certain procedures need to be followed. However, FEMA dropped the ball and let those people die. Plain and simple. Since FEMA is a federal agency, and therefore under the president's purview, he is therefore responsible for their actions, or inaction, in this case.

I agree that an immediate investigation is just plain old silly. There should be one, and I'm sure there will be, but right now the idea is rather impractical.

And while you may consider Hillary an opportunistic bitch, that's one of the things that I admire about her.

Governor of Louisiana is a Democrat.

According to several news reports the media has said that she is a republican. And according to this piece in an article it says : "Louisiana's Republican Governor, Kathleen Blanco, also appealed to Bush to bring home..."
Now you probably know better that I do, so I am going to take your word for it. But as I said several stations reffered to her as the republican governor, and the article that I read above also called her the republican governor. So that is why I said that she was a republican. I should know better than to listen to the media!

Don Cardi

Well than if you understand my point about the governor, and that certain procedures needed to be followed by her, then you would also realize that FEMA is not all at fault here because in several of those situations where people were left to die, FEMA being a federal agency could NOT act without the authorization of the State. Which goes back to Governor Blanco NOT signing that executive order to allow the FEDERAL agencies/governement to take command and control. What it boils down to is two things ; The federal agencies and military are forced to work side by side with the state agencies and under state direction if the governor does NOT sign that executive order. Secondly the blunder on the part of the President is that he screwed up in making FEMA part of homeland security. He obviously did so with the mindset of a possible act of terrorism. They are and should be a disaster agency, and not a security agency. That is where I think the President screwed up big time. But I'll say it again, FEMA being a federal agency could not act on it's own without the authority and direction of the state as long as that executive order was not signed.

This is what I think must be done. FEMA must be seperated from Homeland Security and should be restructered to be an independant agency that can respond to any disaster under both state and federal guidelines.

And yes, I do realize that FEMA was not all that great even when they were authorized to go in there, and they should also be scrutinized when this thing is all over.

But pushing aside Republican thinking or Democratic thinking, I just do NOT think it's fair to blame ANY President for most of the things that happened in this situation. In truth, by Blanco refusing to sign that executive order and follow proper procedure for federal help, she tied the President's hands.

Her and her Mayor are the ones that should be held accountable for most of the problems that developed because of their inaction.


Don Cardi


Don Cardi

If that skanky bitch Billary was so concerned about the victims Did she or any other politician get their hands dirty and help pass out food or help out in any other way? Or were they to busy running off the mouth with the blame game BS?

So how can you not hold President Bush responsible?

Who should we hold responsible for FEMA? Michael Brown? Sure. But how about Michael Brown's boss, or Michael Brown's bosses boss?

FEMA's response seemed so inadequate and Michael Brown seemed so clueless in the first few days after the red tape was cut through and they finally swung into action, that I have to wonder if they would have done much better under any circumstances.

I guess with a two-day headstart they would have had to have done a better job, but can anyone honestly say that in light of the way the events unfolded that they have any confidence in Michael Brown as the head of a government agency charged with the responsibility of dealing with a national emergency?

No one is perfect; not me, not you, not President Bush. It never ceases to amaze me how people here will defend absolutely any action or policy of his, as if the man can do no wrong.

He is the head of our government. Michael Brown heads a government agency. President Bush is responsible, either directly or indirectly, for the appointment of this man, and President Bush must bear the responsibility for his failures.

Yes, the Governor of LA and the Mayor of NO should have done what they needed to do to get the federal assistance ball rolling sooner. Clearly, they blew it.

But FEMA was not exactly a 100% shining light in this mess either, and President Bush must be held accountable for their failure.

Thursday, Sept 1, 9:30am: Chappaqua, NY
Billary wakes up. Decisions to make. Should I hop a flight to Baton Rouge, and limo over to New Orleans to shake some hands of the evacuees (they probably stink) and tell them that I'm fighting to get food, water and clothing for them, OR, hold a press conference here in the backyard and blame the President and every Republican for sending the hurricane to the Gulf AND for not providing food, water and clothing.

9:35am Billary calls press secretary: Tells him to set up a press conference in the garden for noon.

9:36am Billary back to sleep.

How about that skanky bitch Barbara Bush?

If she was so concerned about the victims, why wasn't she out there getting her hands dirty and helping to pass out food or helping out in any other way?

Or was she too busy running of her mouth with her
"And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this is working very well for them." comment?

I cannot begin to tell you how ANGRY that statement made me, as well as the one about how thrilled the survivors all were by the Texas hospitality, and that everyone she spoke to couldn't wait to move to Texas!! As if they were vacationing there, and happened to like it!! She sounded like a clueless, elitist jackass! Perhaps they want to move there because they have nothing to return to!!!

And maybe Hillary isn't there, but her husband is. He's giving his time in a bipartisan effort to head up the fundraising effort, as he did after the tsunami.

Wow, the gloves are comin' off. Calling mothers into this now!

Well, if the mother wants to go around being interviewed and giving quotes that make her sound like a stupid snob, then so be it!

Hillary is a mother, too, isn't she?

Fair enough. I agree with that assessment. In hindsight there is no question that it was a BIG mistake putting FEMA under The Department Of Homeland Security. And yes, Bush does share blame for his administration implementing that under his watch.
[/b][/quote]I defended his action and policies no matter what?


Don Cardi

The "some people here" comment was not directed at you.

You, at least, seem to be the only Repub/Conserv willing to hold Bush at least partially responsible, which is what he is.

Bush needs to be inmpeached.

Let's not get carried away here, DT.

Whatever his failings and shortcomings, he doesn't deserve impeachment any more than any of our other presidents did, aside from Nixon.

Besides, you want Cheney as President?

FEMA is a joke. I have to laugh when I watch on tv the people standing in line for their $2000 debit cards. One lady with 2 kids only got $200.00. One lady said the FEMA person told her to send him her address, or she could fax or email the info to them. I guess someone forgot to tell them people have no electricity or phone. I wonder if they'll ever find out where Biloxi, MISS is. People there they interviewed said as of two days ago they have yet to see a FEMA person. But I guess they should be greatful to know that "they're on their way".

Did you catch it on tv where Cheney was visiting the levess and someone yelled out "F*ck you Mr. Cheney".

FEMA appointees lack relief experience

Five senior officials named under Bush had few disaster qualifications
By Ken Silverstein
Los Angeles Times
Originally published September 9, 2005

WASHINGTON - In the days since Hurricane Katrina devastated New Orleans, Federal Emergency Management Agency director Michael Brown has come under withering attack, with critics charging that his lack of prior experience in dealing with natural disasters contributed to his agency's poor performance.

But Brown is just one of at least five current and former senior FEMA officials appointed under President Bush whose professional backgrounds showed few qualifications in the area of disaster relief when they arrived at the agency.

As the administration struggles to counter negative national perceptions about its response, Vice President Dick Cheney defended the administration's FEMA appointees in remarks to reporters yesterday.

"You've got to have people at the top who respond to and are selected by presidents, and you pick the best people you can to do the jobs that need to be done," said Cheney while touring the stricken Gulf Coast.

"We've also got some great career professionals, an absolute and vital part of the operation - couldn't do it without them. They're the ones that continue the expertise from administration to administration, who have got the experience of having been through all of this before and provide the quality service that needs to be provided."

But Democrats in Congress have attacked Brown and other top FEMA appointees.

"FEMA is an important agency and needs to be run by professionals, not political cronies," said Rep. Henry Waxman, a California Democrat, the ranking minority member of the Committee on Government Reform. "Instead of a loyalty test, we need people with experience and competence."

More than a year before the hurricane hit New Orleans, the head of a labor union representing FEMA workers sent a letter to members of Congress charging that "emergency managers at FEMA have been supplanted on the job by politically-connected contractors and by novice employees with little background or knowledge" of disaster management."

"As ... professionalism diminishes, FEMA is gradually losing its ability to function and to help disaster victims," the letter said.

People appointed to run domestic government agencies frequently have political connections. But for many top positions some relevant background is required as well.

Paul Light, a professor of organizational studies at New York University, said that for many years, FEMA was a dumping ground for the politically connected.

But during the Clinton years, Light said, FEMA director James Lee Witt "built a serious hierarchy around expertise. Somewhere along the line, FEMA has returned to being a destination of last resort for political appointees."

Brown, a career attorney who was active in Republican Party politics, was hired to be FEMA's general counsel by Joseph Allbaugh, an old friend and the agency's first director under Bush.

Before coming to FEMA, Brown had worked for nearly a decade at the International Arabian Horse Association.

Allbaugh - a long-time aide to Bush who had managed his 2000 campaign - resigned as FEMA director in 2003 and opened up a consulting firm that helped companies win contracts in Iraq. Brown, who had risen to become Allbaugh's top deputy, took charge.

Brown's acting deputy director, Patrick James Rhode, began his professional career as an "anchor/reporter with network affiliated television stations in Alabama and Arkansas," according to FEMA's Web site.

Rhode subsequently did public relations work for several state agencies in Texas before becoming deputy director of national advance operations for Bush's 2000 presidential campaign.

Before moving to FEMA, Rhode served as a special assistant to the president and White House liaison with the Commerce Department. He donated $2,000 to Bush's 2004 campaign.

Both Allbaugh and Brown were Oklahoma natives involved in that state's Republican politics. FEMA's acting deputy chief of staff, Brooks Altshuler, also hails from Oklahoma. And like Rhode, Altshuler was an advance man for President Bush.

FEMA did not return several calls seeking comment.

New questions surfaced yesterday about whether the White House incorrectly inflated Brown's past work experience when he took over the agency.

The official White House announcement of Brown's nomination to head FEMA in January 2003 lists his previous experience as "the Executive Director of the Independent Electrical Contractors," a trade group.

But two officials of the group this week said that Brown never was the head of the national group but did serve as the executive director of a regional chapter - for less than six weeks.

The Los Angeles Times is a Tribune Publishing newspaper. Newsday contributed to this article.

Did you catch it on tv where Cheney was visiting the levess and someone yelled out "F*ck you Mr. Cheney". [/b][/quote]Because they know that his reason for being there was probably to assess the damage so that he can go back and tell Halliburton how big of a contract they should ask for!


Don Cardi

Just posting this to show that not all of the criticism of Bush's response to Katrina falls along party lines.

Powell criticizes U.S. response to hurricane

In the beginning I always thought they should send Powell over there to handle this tragedy.

Personally speaking, I think that Powell was disgusted about how the Iraqi war was being fought. Keep in mind that this man was a General with a military mentality. I think that being on the inside he saw the mistake being made that this war would be one fought with "political correctness," and probably felt that this was the wrong approach in fighting a war. He was privied to the inside politcal bullshit and this disgusted him also. He basicaly was a man who whatever job given, would get it done in the way that he was trained to do things. I'm sure that there was plenty of inside strife about how the war was being fought, and he just decided that he didn't need this shit at this point in his life. That is probably one of the reasons that he decided to retire after serving his first term under the administration.


Don Cardi

As I've said in several other posts, I always felt that Giuliani and Kerek would have been good choices for running this thing.


Don Cardi

That would work too. Them along with Powell I think would do a great job. They've already proven themselves to be leaders.

Dontomasso, can you explain to me on what grounds you would ask for the impeachment of this President? What legal grounds?


DS

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9261552/

Dontomasso, can you explain to me on what grounds you would ask for the impeachment of this President? What legal grounds?


DS [/b][/quote]Malfeasance in office.

Dontomasso, can you explain to me on what grounds you would ask for the impeachment of this President? What legal grounds?


DS [/b][/quote]Malfeasance in office. [/b][/quote]And exactly what wrongful conduct has he displayed as a public official that warrents calling for an impeachment?



Don Cardi

Yo Don Cardi! I bet you missed my political posts!


1. Undermining the Constitution by mixing religion and politics.

2. Deliberately engaging in a tax reduction and spending spree designed to "starve the beast of government," which translates to the infrastructure of this once great country. The problems in New Orleans are the tip of this iceberg.

3. Lying about the reasons for the Iraq war, and then sending nearly 2,000 Americans who had neither the correct weapons, protection or numbers and an untold number (the war criminals at the pentagon won't say) of innocent Iraqis to their deaths.

4. Running the Dept of Homeland security with a degree of negligence that is criminal.

5. Being an overall jerk.

I'll vote for #5. :p

That also ticked me off SB. How clueless could one person be. Yea Clinton is there but don't forget that Bush Sr. is there to doing the same thing in a bipartisan effort to head up the fundraising effort, as he did after the tsunami.

You are so right Beth. I always thought the Powell should have been Defence Secretary instead of Rumsfeld but that is a whole other suject.

My late 2 cents: ALL levels of government failed. They didn't learn their lesson from Andrew, and now it's come back to bite them in the ass.

The only difference between Katrina and Andrew is obviously that Katrina put a city underwater. The similairties are uncanny (in the way that the government handled Andrew and obviously didn't learn their lessons.)

It took four days to bring relief to victims of Andrew, and same for Katrina. The government fucked up really bad. Twice.