Kurt Cobain vs Tupac

I thought of this after comparing them in a debate with Patrick.

In some ways, they lived parallel lives, their effects on their genre, their untimely death...

Who was better?

I think this is stupid to compare the 2 but anyway i'm naturally going to say cobain, the lyrics alone make him win

I´m agree with scarface.1, you cant campare them cuz they were very diferent, but for me kurt cobain was more relevant, cuz I love his music, since I was a kid, actually he was my first "music idol" when I was like 11-12 years and is one of my favorite musicians till now.

Kurt Cobain was definitely more relevant to modern music than Tupac. I'm not taking anything from Tupac, but his death wasn't felt universally. Kurt Cobain's death was almost as relevant as Jimi Hendrix. Also, at least IMO, Tupac has lost a lot of credibility with all the albums he's released since he's died. There is no question as to whether or not Kurt is dead. But some people believe Pac is still alive. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he was.

Kurt Cobain, his music screams pain and his deepest emotions. His cryptic lyrics are probably the best thing about the band.

I think it's quite obvious that it's unfair to compare the two, but I also feel that it's quite obvious that Tupac was a better lyricist. My intent is not to debate and repeat a Shakespeare/Tupac war, but rather to inform. I highly doubt anyone will even read any of the links I provide because of their sterotypical and prejudice attitudes and views.

Tupac Shakur was not only a rapper, but he was a producer of albums and beats, a political activist and actor, and a piano and bass player. He had many different sides to himself.

When I listen to Kurt Cobain, I hear one side or another. I either hear a man who is living on a high and loves life, or I hear a depressed and suicidal man. Some would argue that he was murdered, but that can go in a different thread. As the case stands, the man took in an incredible amount of heroin and proceded to shoot himself in the head.

With Tupac, we see many sides. We see his loving and peaceful side in songs like \'Keep Ya Head Up\' and \'Dear Mama\' .

We hear about horrible acts in the inner cities of America that are ignored by everyone, in songs like \'Brenda\'s Got A Baby\' , \'Ghetto Gospel\' , and \'Part Time Mutha\' .

We hear his political tone in songs like \'Words of Wisdom\' , \'Changes\' , and \'Letter to the President\' .

We here his poetic side in \'Unconditional Love\' , \'Me Against the World\' , and his poems that he wrote just for fun, some of which can be found here .

We hear the tales of THUG LIFE and his altercations with life and death in songs like \'Violent\' and \'Hellrazor\' .

I needed to write an essay on someone who 'impacted society' in order to be eligible to graduate high school. Here is that paper:
Tupac changed society in many ways and impacted many people throughout his short-lived lifetime. Tupac’s life was so many things, but it can be summed with these 4 words: Ambition, violence, redemption, and love. Tupac’s mother was a Black Panther leader and was jailed while pregnant with Tupac. Tupac’s father was sentenced to 60 years in federal prison for robbery and his step-father was a street hustler who would come to visit Tupac and leave just as fast.

Born in New York in 1971, Tupac would soon move to Baltimore and then to Marin City, California. Baltimore was the poorest city in the United States of America at the time and had the highest level of black on black killings. He attended the Baltimore School for the Arts. He would act as Travis in his first play, ‘A Raisin in the Sun.’ He also would write poetry and do ballet. Some of his inspirations included Stevie Wonder, Frank Sinatra, and Bob Marley. Tupac soon would realize that his school was much different then his friends who attended the schools in the rough parts of the city.

During his teenager years, Tupac began to question the one thing in the world he hated the most: poverty. His one wish was that the poor would live like the rich for a week, while the rich would live like the poor, then it would change every week. He criticized the Reagan administration constantly for not helping the homeless, who were “homeless, but not helpless.” He wanted the homeless to go into one of the twenty plus rooms in the White House and actually give the President ideas.

Tupac came to Marin City to try and escape that violence and poverty, but there was even more there. Tupac would make videos for his his suggestions for the education system and governments to view. In one video, Tupac stated, “I think there should be a class on drugs. There should be a class on sex education, a real sex-education class (to learn more about STD’s and consequences). There should be a class on police brutality. There should be a class on apartheid. There should be a class on why people are hungry, but there’s not. There are classes on gym. Physical education. Let’s learn volleyball.”

In Marin City, Tupac hung out with the drug dealers and pimps as he looked up to them like father figures. He thought of them as a male influence. When he talked, people wouldn’t hear something an average person would learn from their mom or dad. He talked like someone from the street. To him, they were his role models. Tupac then found out that he didn’t have enough credits to graduate high school, so he dropped out. He tried selling drugs for 2 weeks, but the guy who gave them to him to sell took them back because Tupac didn’t know how to sell them. The dealers were the ones who told him not to become someone like they had become. They told him to follow his dreams and gave him money. His dream was to make music that was coming from his heart.

Tupac signed with the rap label Digital Underground. Tupac’s first record was entitled, “2Pacalypse Now.” It was released by Interscope Records. As he classified it, “It was a record about teenage pregnancy, police brutality, and poverty. Also, I tell my own personal problems. All my songs were about pain from my childhood. That’s what makes me do what I do.” One of his biggest inspirations from music is the song “Vincent,” by Don McLean and he also credited Shakespeare. His stories were raw about real human needs. After seeing some things that people will never see in a lifetime, he said, “No, no. I’m changing this.”

Tupac realized that the Vietnam War ended because of the horror shown from the media. People would’ve believed that men were just dying peacefully had it not been for the media. He thought, “That’s what I’ll be as an artist, as a rapper. I’m going to show the most graphic details of what I see and my community, and hopefully they’ll stop it.” His lyrics were a reality of life how he has seen it. One of his number one enemies was “the crooked police officer.” All of the things Tupac said about cops on his first albums were things that his peers had told him. As he said, “I never had a record until I made a record.”

Tupac’s first arrest was for jaywalking. The cops told him, “You need to learn your place.” While Tupac was asking for his citation so he could go, he was thrown to the concrete and laying face down in the gutter. He woke up in jail and was charged with resisting arrest. The funny thing was the way that the media portrayed Tupac. When this incident happened, they didn’t show Tupac on the news with a bruised face. They showed the pictures of Tupac leaving the courthouse in cuffs. Tupac had the chief of police, the Vice President (Dan Quayle), the leader of the Black National Woman’s Council against him.

Tupac’s first movie, “Juice,” was a movie where his character was a psychopath. Everyone believed that his character in the movie was the person who he was in real life. He was often criticized for having no respect for women because he used the word, “bitch.” Tupac saw 2 sides of women. He saw women like his mother and sister who represented a strong woman, but he also saw women everyday on the street who represented the “bitches.” To him, they were the women who pretended to love a guy for his money. He often said there were male “bitches” too.

He felt that he could speak for the people who were hopeless and considered himself “hopeless” too. Half of his fans were white. Some of them were poor and some of them were rich. He wanted people to know that his music could always be an escape from reality.

Tupac started “Thug Life” in the early 90’s. A Thug is usually confused with a gangsta. This is how it’s broken down: A gangsta is someone who is going to sell drugs to kids and women and buy things for themselves. They’re not doing anything for society. What Thugs did was the opposite. They took the drugs and money from the gangstas and gave this money to someone who needed it. They made a whole Thug Life code. There were over 50 rules, such as to keep the drugs away from schools and to make sure the drugs didn’t get into the hands of a pregnant woman. Tupac organized gangstas in jails to come up with the codes for Thug Life. Thug Life was a new way for a movement of the youth, which was led by Tupac. Tupac said, “A Thug isn’t what the dictionary says. It’s not someone who breaks the law. It’s someone with nothing and no home to go to, but they keep their head up high. My chest it out. I walk tall. I talk loud. I’m being strong.”
Tupac also believed that gangs could even be positive. He said, “It has to be organized. It has to steer away from being self-destructive to being self-productive.”

Tupac started having Thug Life concerts in which money was donated to watch him perform and then the money was used to make the neighborhood a better place. One of Tupac’s only musts was: No violence. When asked what the message of Thug Life would be, he said, “The drug dealers and everyone put in prison will be legit. They will be sitting next to you in first class.”

Thug Life became strong in Bush Sr.’s time in office. Dan Quayle often criticized Tupac songs saying, “This has no place in our society.” His first record, “2Pacalypse Now,” was actually taken off of the market for some time. Bob Dole, C. Deloris Tucker, and Jesse Jackson all criticized Tupac’s music by saying that “it has no place in this society” or “it glorifies rape and violence.” Dianne Warwick protested gangsta rap at a 1994 Senate hearing criticizing the youth for talking so offensively to adults. They were trying to stop the positive things Tupac was trying to do before he could even get on with his plan of Thug Life.

Tupac just wanted to rap about the oppressed fighting back, but that was too much to them. Tupac thought that his lyrics were a way of telling people what he thought could be done to correct society. He said that the (Black Panther) movement his mother was in asked questions about our government, but everyone from that movement was in jail or died. He wasn’t about to ask questions and end up like them.

In 1995, Tupac was charged with sexual assault in the first degree. There were answering machine tapes of the girl’s interest in Tupac, but they were “accidentally” erased by police. The girl admits to going to the hotel room with Tupac consensually. One day before sentencing, Tupac was in downtown New York and passed P. Diddy’s studio in New York. Close friend at the time, rapper Notorious B.I.G., called Tupac from a window to come up. As Tupac was entering the lobby with 2 friends, he was shot 5 times in an alleged robbery. Tupac believed that he was set up by P. Diddy and the Notorious B.I.G. because Tupac refused to sign with his rap label (Bad Boy Records in New York). The next day, Tupac checked himself out of the hospital against doctor’s orders to go and hear the guilty verdict. He was sentenced to serve 2 ½ - 5 years in prison. He never again became friends with the Notorious B.I.G., which many people believe may have led to his death.

Suge Knight’s label (Death Row Records in Los Angeles) was where Tupac would go next. Suge Knight posted over $1.4 million in bail to get Tupac out if Tupac would make 2 records with Death Row. Tupac had served 11 months in prison already. Upon his release, the media talked about an East Coast/West Coast war between the 2 labels.

Less then a year later, on September 7th, 1996, Tupac was attending a Mike Tyson fight in Las Vegas with Suge Knight. After the fight, Tupac and his entourage recognized a South Side Crip member who had stolen one of Tupac’s medallions in the previous week. After the entourage beat him up, they left. They were on there way to a club when a car with 4 black guys pulled up next to the car with Suge Knight and Tupac. At 11:15 PM, shots rang out. Tupac would die 7 days later on September 13th, 1996 at 4:03 PM.

Nearly 8 years after his death, Tupac’s unreleased music is still coming out along with dozens of books and movies about his life. He will never be forgotten and will always be the voice of the youth…”until the end of time.”

Why has Tupac lost credibility? He isn't the one releasing the music. His mom and Suge Knight are. If anything, Suge Knight and his record company (Death Row Records) are losing credibility. When's the last thing you heard something positive about that? Also, couldn't the same be said that releasing this new 4-disc Nirvana set hurt Cobain's credibility?

Then some people are very stupid. -Pat

I see where you're getting at, Patrick, and believe me, I respect your opinion. But comparing the numerous releases of 2-Pac's double-disc, previously un-released tracks CDs to one 4-disc set from Nirvana is kinda stretching it. I like 2-Pac, and I respect him. But none of these CDs have done anything to make 2-Pac any more of a legend than he was when he was alive. It's as if his mother is afraid that his fans will forget about him, and so she's constantly looking through all of his unreleased work, and putting out a new CD every one or two years, so we don't forget what her son did for the music industry, and so we don't forget that he made rap/hip-hop music mean something again. Believe me, no one will ever forget what 2-Pac did during his short time here on earth. The albums he released while he was alive did more than enough to guarantee his place in the annals of music history. Again, this is just my opinion. I don't claim to be right, it's just how I feel.

My Economics teacher's two favorite rappers are "2-packs" and "Ice Tray"

All the music still being released by 2Pac was previously unreleased. All of the music on that 4 disc set was previously unheard and/or unreleased. Tupac obviously made more music, so it would be near impossible to put it in one complete set.

I didn't say they have, but I'd be pretty pissed if they kept all of his music from us.

I think it just has to do with her wanting people to hear everything he made. Most of the profits from his CDs don't even go to her. They go into building Tupac's school.

Patrick, your paper on TuPac was f*cking great!

Thing is, and as sickening as this may seem, we have to match up how both "Artists Taken Away at their Prime" went out.

There are always conspiracy theories, but as it stands, Cobain in his heavy depression took his life while Tupac was murdered by assasilants who's identities so far haven't been uncovered. Both fates are absolutely tragic.

But Tupac was a leading figure in a music genre that would explode in profits and popularity after his death while Cobain took his life while its arguable that the "Grudge" music craze/fad of the early 90's was running its last laps around the track.

Then again, I dunno if its still true in the Guinness Book of World Records, but Mr. Tupac *was* the most successful "gangsta rapper"(but I assume someone else has surpassed him by now).

Really, any of us can name Cobain or Tupac as the superior music being, and we would be right either way.

P.S. - Yes, I did puss out and not name either Cobain or Tupac.

ronnierocketAGO, curious, did you read any of the books written? I'm not challenging your opinion at all but they are interesting, including the sites. I don't belive the mainstream belief a bit. Cobain admitted he was in the most happy time of his life, planning to divorce, retire from music, and live with his daughter. I didn't believe it at first but after all I've read in the past year, I realize there's really no evidence of suicide. His credit card was in use before and after his death and ended when the body was found, the crime scene was strange in the way things were placed, the suicide part of the note was not in his handwriting, etc. I truly believe he was murdered.

As for Tupac and Biggie I am ignorant on their stories. I've always heard that Biggie had Tupac killed and Puff Daddy had Biggie killed. If anyone wishes to enlighten me, go ahead.

Don, yes I've read that but alot of interesting and disturbing circumstantial evidence it all is. However, I said "As it Stands" in my original post in legal terms.

Its like the theories about who *really* knocked-off President JFK. They all have their good points, but nothing concrete to make a conclusive evidence out of.

As for the Tupac/B.I.G. deal, who knows.

I wish to enlighten.
On September 7th, 1996, Tupac attended a Mike Tyson fight in Las Vegas with Suge Knight and his body guards and friends etc. The fight was over in less than 2 or 3 rounds. On there way out, Tupac's crew spotted a man who had stolen a medallion of one of Tupac's friends. This man turned out to be Orlando Anderson and was a member of the Crips, which are a rival gang of the Bloods, the gang that Suge Knight was affiliated with. Tupac's crew jumped Anderson.

About two hours later, at 11:13 PM, Tupac and Suge Knight were in Suge's car. They were on there way to a club owned by Suge Knight, which was on the Las Vegas strip. A black sedan pulled up next to them and opened fire. Tupac died 7 days later from 5 bullets to the body. Suge Knight was grazed on the head. Many people believe Anderson ordered the hit.

There were also rumors that Tupac was planning on leaving Death Row Records and making his own company. If Tupac left Death Row, Tupac got all of his unreleased music. Many people believe Suge Knight may be responsible because he wanted the profits to Tupac's music. Oh, and Orlando Anderson, he was shot dead in 1999 in Compton over an argument with a friend.
---------
Biggie's death is more complex. He died in Los Angeles in March of 1997. Obviously, Puff Daddy and Biggie had much more body guards and protection out west because of the East/West fued. Puffy and Biggie were attending a party for Vibe magazine. Fire marshalls broke the party up because it became to croweded.

When Puffy and Biggie left, 'a man with a bow tie followed them,' according to a body guard from the show that night. The man who killed Biggie was seen wearing a bow tie in a black lincoln or chevy sedan (remember this). This is where it gets good. It brings chills down my spine.

David Mack, a member of the LAPD, was very good friends with Suge Knight. He turned out to be a dirty cop and got caught robbing a bank. When officers checked Mack's house, they found a shrine for Tupac and they found the exact model of the car that the man with the bow tie used to shoot Biggie.

Russell Poole, a retired LAPD officer, is now working on the case alone. When David Mack was arrested, Poole's captain told him not to investigate the Biggie murder because Mack was already going down for the robbery. Many people believe that Suge Knight paid David Mack to hire his cousin (the man with the bow tie) to kill Biggie. The man with the bow tie has a name, but it slips my mind. I'm sure it could be found online somewhere. They identified him on a VH1 special. The 'Biggie and Tupac' movie investigates the Biggie murder much more then that of Tupac, so check that out if you want. Hope this helps. -Pat

I think Cobain is better. He had a greater effect on his genre, and music in general. He basically invented his own genre, actually. I think his lyrics were superior, as well.

Maybe Tupac had more "sides" apparent in his lyrics, maybe he didn't. But Cobain wrote very interesting lyrics. Cobain's sending messages through his music, as well, and I think it's much more powerful than Tupac's, but maybe I'm biased because I can't stand rap anyway.

First of all, Cobain created an anthem that defined a generation. Tupac doesn't have an anthem, or any song that compares to "Smells Like Teen Spirit." Popularity wise, there isn't a single Tupac song that anybody in the country can hear and instantly classify it as Tupac. Anyone in the nation who hears Teen Spirit instantly knows it's Nirvana.

The lyrics send messages on different levels. Teen Spirit defines a generation, Lithium describes oppression, In Bloom describes a person, etc.

As for their influence, Tupac sort of revived and gavce life to "gangsta rap," something which I personally resent. But Cobain invented a genre; he totally revolutionized music, and turned the 80's into the 90's. I mean, Tupac greatly improved a genre, but there was nothing before Nirvana. And, since we're speaking of genre's, let's look at that difference between them. Cobain's genre was also superior to Tupac's genre, because it has had a greater effect on the entire music industry, and totally set the tone for the 90's. Hip-hop gangsta rap or whatever has never been a dominant genre, listened to everywhere or revolutionized music entirely outside of itself. I give Cobain more points for inventing a genre that revolutionized the broader genre that revolutionized music as a whole.

Now, let's take a blunt look at the music they made. Now, I'm biased in this, but trying to be a neutral listener setting aside personal taste, I can't think of one Tupac song that's on the level with any of Cobain's top five songs. Perhaps Patrick can better compare some of Tupac's top songs to Cobain's top songs, but I think that in just simple listening enjoyment, Nirvana's sound is much better.

I've already touched on this, but widespread popularity.... Nirvana is known from Aberdeen, Washington where they came from to every corner of the nation. Not so with Tupac, who's music is basically only popular in hot spots and pockets across the nation, particularly in NYC and other urban areas with people that can relate to Tupac, which isn't that incredibly many. I'm not sure about this crossover popularity, but Pat is Nirvana popular among like blacks in the ghetto-- the people that are primarily Tupac's audience? I know that most Nirvana fans aren't Tupac fans, but I'm guessing that a lot of Tupac fans like Nirvana, but I could be wrong.

I like Kurts music but Tupac had a lot more trials to go through because of his race. Kurt also did alot of hard drugs which I have no respect for.

Yeah, I have no respect for the drug use. But I doubt Tupac was a stranger to drugs.

Very hard to name a band that didn't. :p

And IMO, Smells Like Teen Spirit is his most overrated. Most of his other songs have better lyrics.

I'll try to reply to your post paragraph by paragraph...
Tupac's genre, gangsta rap, was created by Ice-T in 1984 and then NWA came into the scene in 1988. By 1991, the year of Tupac's first solo album, gangsta rap had all but died out. NWA was broken up, but gangsta rap needed a push. Tupac made this push.

What messages do you refer to in Cobain's music? Tupac sent many.

Are you kidding me? Tupac created the # 1 diss song of all time: \'Hit Em\' Up\' . Also, you can't possibly tell me that you know anyone who doesn't know \'Changes\' .

Check out the lyrics to the songs I posted in my original post.

Rap has never been a dominant genre?! Come on, man. Don't kid yourself. Rap has been the most listened to music for over 5 years now!

It's hard to talk to you about this because you're being biased about it. I own Nirvana CDs and usually listen to them once or twice a week. I'd find it surprising if you even took the time to download and read any of the songs I posted. Just reading them won't do. You need to listen to it and hear Tupac talk from the heart.

Uhhh. What makes you think Blacks are the majority in listening to Tupac? In a poll done after his death (according to the 'Thug Angel' documentary), over 60 % of Tupac fans are of the White race. Nirvana isn't really popular among anyone. The majority of my school is White, then Hispanics ( ), then Blacks. The majority of my school listens to the shit both you and I despise, new Hip-Hop, like 50 Cent, Ja Rule, and all that bullshit. They probably don't even realize how Tupac impacted Rap.

Tupac smoked weed. Cobain did heroin.

Yeah, but I consider inventing a genre more impressive than revitalizing one.

As Tupac's messages come from ghetto life, some of Cobain's messages regarding life are of living and average events from his own "ghetto." Cobain's not from the ghetto, but you can sort of tell what his own ghetto was if you visit Aberdeen, Washington. I did once when I lived in Seattle. His lyrics sort of reflect that life, but mostly entrapment by drugs and living on the edge in dangerous situations.

I've heard those but no one I know knows them like they do Teen Spirit... I mean come on! EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE knows Teen Spirit, even if these are big hits.

Okay, Tupac's coming from more sides, but Cobain's lyrics address different scales. Tupac's talking about generally the same stuff from different sides and it gives a different effect, but Cobain's lyrics talk about a generation, another a person, everything in between.


No way. Rap isn't the dominant genre. The south listens to country, urban areas listen to rap and rock, everything else listens to rock, pop, and the older generationslisten to 1960's and before. Anyway you slice it, rap isn't the dominant, and I'd say rock has the widest audience.

I've listened to them before, but you're right. I'm biased. I don't like them at all.


In any case, I'd say a greater percentage of blacks listen to Tupac than do whites. What I mean by that is maybe more whites total because they're so many more of them, but more blacks percentage-wise like him. I know more blacks listen to rap than do whites.... way more. But do blacks listen to Nirvana?

A drug's a drug. And Cobain did everything.

You didn't say everyone had to like it. You said everyone has heard of it, which is very true of the 2 songs I posted.

And everyone knows those two 2Pac songs, especially Changes.

I'm not giving my opinion. According to many polls, Rap/Hip-Hop is the most listened to in America right now. It's not an opinion. It's a fact. My friend, the south may have country, but the south is being taken over by something called southern Hip-Hop. It's bigger then ever, unfortunately.

:rolleyes:

You are refuting FACTS. It's been proven that more Whites listen to Rap then Blacks. Do I know Blacks that listen to Nirvana? Let's put it this way. I barely know any Whites that listen to Nirvana, so that should give you a hint. -Pat

^ More whites listen to rap because there are more whites... but a larger percentage of black people listen to it than white people. Get it?

Ugh. You're refuting facts. It doesn't matter if there's more Whites than Blacks. There are still more Whites that listen to Rap.

Percentage, Pat.

This is totally an example, so don't take it literally.

Maybe 10% of whites listen to rap, but that 10% of whites is still more people than 80% of blacks. So, rap would still be more popular with blacks. Get it now?

I got your point in the first place, but according to polls I viewed, Rap is popular among Whites and in America. I'm finding it hard to believe that you actually listened to all of those songs too. Some of those are under rated and rare...

Originally posted by Patrick:

You may not know many white people that listen to Nirvana. Hell, you may not know many people period that listen to Nirvana. But that most definitely shouldn't suggest that they aren't out there. Kurt Cobain did for the music industry what Jimi Hendrix did for it almost 30 years prior. They invented a whole new genre. Jimi Hendrix is the father of guitar-based rock n' roll. Sure, there was Jimmy Page and the like, but no one did it like Jimi. Same with Kurt Cobain. When Nirvana hit the scenes in the mid to late 80's, they brought the death of the sissy glam rock that everyone was listening to, and invented the grunge that dominated the music industry in the mid-90's. They spawned countless bands in this genre (Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains, etc.). But Pat, I will give you this. Both genres of music have surpassed their prime, their golden years. After 2-Pac and Biggy passed, rap music turned to shit. When Cobain died, grunge died with him. I think what we all can gain from this debate is the music industry suffered tremendously with the loss of these musical pioneers.

I haven't listened to either of the two (hard to believe I know lol)

and why wouldn't pop be the most popular j/k

Okay, Pat. But I know Nirvana is still popular.. let's forget race. I guess my original question was, not whether or not it's listened to a lot, but to people in the ghetto, particularly the struggling minorities, do they like Nirvana? Not if a lot listen to it, but if they like it? That was what I was getting at.

In any case, let's compare their songs. I have heard those Tupac songs, but maybe only once and I didn't like them. I'll list what I think are Cobain's top five, and you obviously can list five Tupac songs because I don't even know five.

Smells Like Teen Spirit
Lithium
In Bloom
Heart-Shaped Box
Come as You Are

Sorry Pat, but I have to agree with him on this one. A few years back EVERYONE listened to Nirvana. I remember the day he died (I was in 8th grade) it was a huge deal with huge mourning and so forth. He was like the start and finish of the whole grunge period.

As DV said, Smells Like Teen Spirit isn't even that great.

The top 5 Tupac songs of all time:
1.) Changes
2.) Me Against the World
3.) Brenda's Got A Baby
4.) Keep Ya Head Up
5.) Ghetto Gospel

I never said it wasn't sad he died or that it wasn't a major impact on grunge. I just don't think he influenced as many people or was as good a writer as Tupac. -Pat

Smells Like Teen Spirit is that great, it's just overplayed and overplayed. If it was heard only as much say All Apologies, another great one, then it could probably easily be declared the best one. Because it' so hyped and overplayed it's over-analyzed.

Kurt Cobain. Hands down. No contest.

Of course, I'm slightly biased.

Okay, I'm really biased.

I'm in love with Kurt. And I've only heard a handful of Tupac songs.

The reason people say Smells Like Teen Spirit "defines" are generation is because it was the MTV flavor of the week. All the posers who wanted to be cool just listened to SLTS and bandwagoned like Tupac posers listen to Hit 'Em Up and say they are a fan.

Kurt expressed himself in many sides (disagreeing to Pat) and a lot more then in Smells Like Teen Spirit. I can name dozens of songs better then it, among them: Serve the Servants, You Know You're Right, Heart-Shaped Box, Rape Me, Lithium, Something in the Way, Drain You, Paper Cuts, Polly, Dumb, Pennyroyal Tea, All Apologies, Scoff, Sifting, etc.

changes? sounds like to me he stole the name of a great bowie song to me

Pat, could you post the lyrics to "Changes," if that's your pick for best Tupac song. Obviously, it's hard to find Cobain's best work. Best song on a personal level, In Bloom. On a broad level, Lithium, SLTS, I don't know.

Are you kidding? More personal then "Serve the Servants"?

In Bloomd is about the people who sing their lyrics without knowing what they are singing.

Changes isn't his best lyrical sign. It's his most influential song.
Not including his poetry, this is probably his best song, based on lyrics. I had a hard time picking one and debated with Me Against the World and Unconditional Love. I think I'm going to go with Unconditional Love.

I'll never deny Tupac's being a lyrical genius. He was before his time. And I'm not biased by any means. I don't have a favorite genre, or a genre I prefer. I like songs that I like, whether it's rock, rap, country, it doesn't matter. So, as an unbiased person, I have to say, I believe Kurt Cobain was a better lyricist, his songs were deeper, and his music touched more people. My opinion, nothing more. I've touched on some points, as have everybody else. I'll leave it at that.

Did Signore go running off? :p

No... I'm in the process of compiling a quality post to explain their quality in lyrics and music....

I found this interesting article... perhaps there is a racial divide with music preference...


Kurt Cobain vs Master P

There is? You're acting like I'm a Black guy living in the projects. Let it be known that I'm White and I live, relatively, in the burbs.

It took you 2 days to come up with something totally irrelevant? Master P is the worst rapper alive and should be put out of his misery. His label just went bankrupt last year. Now, I'm waiting for your realy reply. 'Kurt Cobain Vs. Tupac Shakur' BTW, I REALLY hope you're not even trying to say that comparing Master P to Cobain is like comparing Tupac to Cobain. I await your argument, which is obviously nothing right now.

I'll check back later. -Pat

For one, that wasn't my response. And second, I'm not talking about racial divide in music preference as if you're black, I was just expanding on something we talked about earlier about whites and blacks liking different music, and I wanted to post that to show that there is a divide. It wasn't my response to this debate, it was just something extra.

And I never said anything about Master P, which if you read the article which I bet you didn't, you'd know it had absolutely nothing to do with this Master P guy, it was about the white youth knowing of white music stars, and blacks knowing of the blacks, but the two didn't know about eachother. The Cobain-Master P thing wasn't the topic, and it's just a coincidence Cobain was there. I was just pointing out an article on racial division on music preference, as it relates to culture.