Pat's Thoughts Volume 28: Fidel Castro

Actually read this before you bash me. :p :rolleyes:

Fidel Castro: Bad guy or a guy who tried to make things better for a country in need? While most people obviously know now that Communism doesn't work, we have to remember that when Castro was taking over Cuba, Communism was just starting. Countries were 'testing' it out. People didn't know if it'd work or fail.

I don't believe that Fidel Castro should be considered a horrible dictator, but I certainly don't think he should be considered a hero or idol. Castro overthrew a cruel dictatorship and has educated most of the people in Cuba. An article I read today also said that prositution is now very rare and that most of the prostitutes have been educated.

I can understand why many Cubans in America hate him because their relatives are still in Cuba. We have to remember that Castro sent over 100,000 Cubans to America in 1980, so not only did this enable some Cubans already in America to reunite with their families, but Castro also sent the criminals over, so he also decreased the crime level in Cuba by doing that. -Pat

I hate him. There is nothing else for me to say.

Also you wouldn't enjoy Scarface today if it was not because of what he did...

Pat, Do you love it that he housed nuclear weapons for the Soviet Union to destroy us with?

You're putting words in my mouth. I never said I loved the guy. -Pat

I think castro is a big moron and I hope cuba can be free of that dictador soon.

Sorry Pat. I didn't mean it to sound like that. "Do you love it?" is a terrible expression that I use to often. My apologies.

I was just pointing out one of the many reasons I do not like Castro.

Now seriously about this guy, I think he started with good intentions but either power has corrupted him or he has no faith in his people to find the right way on their own. His long speeches, his control over media, the fact that the whole government is not chosen by people with a free election on regular basis and all and all reminds me of my own country and I hated it this way. However, this is another country and I strongly believe freedom and democracy has to evolve within a society and it can't be delivered from other countries because it simply wouldn't be democracy anymore. People of a country have to pay for their freedom themselves. They have to grow politically before they can handle these issues.

And Krlea, don't be so sure that what you say is right because media says so, they were telling the same stuff about Iraq and they have not found anything yet.

Kristen--I think I know what you meant. I don't think Castro is a good guy, but he certainly gets a bad wrap. He's no where near as bad as Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, or Minh. -Pat

[QUOTE]Originally posted by afsaneh77:
And Krlea, don't be so sure that what you say is right because media says so, they were telling the same stuff about Iraq and they have not found anything yet.


Are you trying to say that the Cuban Missle Crisis might have never occurred because the media reported it? Right.

I'm as sceptical as the next person, if not more so, about what our government tells us, but as far as the Cuban Missle Crisis goes, I gotta believe we were being told the truth.

There was photo surveillance of the actual missles, which, I suppose, could have been fake, but all we did was put up a blockade, make some Russian ships turn back that were supposedly carrying more, and force the Soviets to remove their missles from Cuba, in exchange for which we made a secret deal with Khruschev to remove some or all of ours from Turkey (I'm a little hazy on the details of the last part).

So what would the point have been if there were actually no missles in Cuba and the whole "crisis" was a fake? What did we accomplish?

You know Plawrence, you might be right and as I said I hate Castro. But this whole Iraq issue has made me very pessimist and I don't want to be fooled with it anymore. I simply have doubts about every single thing we're being fed by media. :rolleyes:

We agreed to remove some outdated Jupiter missles from Turkey that were obsolete. The agreement was an "understanding" between the Soviet foreign minister and RFK that was unofficial, but carried out.

Have you seen Havana cica 1958. Now look at it in 2004. Communisim wasn't "just starting" in 1960. Communisim started when Marx met Engle in the 1840's and they wrote, The Communist Manifesto. The Soviet Union had already become Communists when Lenin and the Bolsheviks pulled the rug from under Czar Nicholous II in 1917. I'd of thought you'd of known this. In the 1950's, I belive Mao Tse Tung took China and made it "The Peoples Republic Of China". Communisim wasn't just starting out. It had been tryed many times.

Communisim works like this. Revolution, folwed by a temporary leader, who them must conside his power to the people so that one and all are equal. The problem is is that no leader would ever let go of theat power. Commuinisim had also failed MANY TIMES!

Fidel Castro over threw Fulencio Bautista, a man that assosiated with the Mafia but had brought so muich American dollars into Cuba. Then, of course, Castro took over and closed gambling and was embargoed and so he has destroyed Cuba's economic prosperaty of the '40's and '50's.

In the early 1960's Castro killed thousands of his fucking enemies! He forced so many people to come to America as refuges.

Castro never gave a shit about people reuniting with their families. He sent them here as cover for those criminals which came to Miami (A there where quite a few cases like that in the '80's here in Miami).

You don't think he's a horrible dictator? Destroyed Cuba's ecoonomy, killed his enemies, constantly attacks America, killed everyone who invaded Cuba during the Bay Of Pigs. No. He's not that bad.

I'm insulted by this thought Patrick.

Why don't you go to hell! Or beter yet, go to Cuba. It's tthe same goddamn thing! You'll never understand how horrible a man he really is!

I forgot you knew everything, Mike. What was I thinking? :rolleyes: The rich Cubans and Americans in Cuba to gamble were the ones that prospered under Batista. NO ONE else did. Poverty has DECREASED under Castro.

Kills his enemies? What countries DON'T kill their enemies?! That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. That's like me saying, "America is horrible. We're killing our enemies in Iraq." :rolleyes:

And who the hell is Mao Tse Tong? Mao Zedong took over China with Comunism. Yes, Communism was JUST starting all over the world in the 1930's (Italy and Germany). After that, Cuba had its' resolution just after the Vietnam war started and North Korea turned into Communism in the mid 50's right before the Revolution.

And I never said, "Communism doesn't fail." I said =, "It DOES, but was just being 'tested' out by countries at the time." You should've read the first sentence of my post and actually READ the paragraphs that followed, then maybe you'd have a clue. -Pat

You're just pissed because you can't see your family. That has nothing to do with the economical status of the country. -Pat

I would say that if there have been so many great advances under the Castro regime people would be risking their lives to immigrate to Cuba.

People would rather risk their lives in inner tubes and rowboats across rough water full of sharks than live in Cuba. Even Jose Contreras would rather work for George Steinbrenner than live in Cuba!

Don't mix up fascism with communism. Germany and Italy in the 1930's were fascist states, not communist. It's very different.

Well said, Don Marco. Just what I was thinking.

Castro was a pimp and a whore at times with Russia.

Is he the same guy who makes those convertible couches?

No, that is his cousin- Carlos
Carlos Castro's Convertible Couches

While I don't agree with his politics, Castro is a brilliant statesman. If you have any chance read any of his epistles and letters. The guy knows what he's talking about.

And the fact that Cuba is bad because "Castro kills his enemies"...that's one of the dumbest statements ever! Of course he kills his enemies! Tell me what rulers haven't killed their enemies. Even God's chosen (King David) killed all of those who opposed Israel. What do you think Bush's going to do when he finds bin Laden? Shook him by the ear and say: "Bad boy! Bad boy!"?

"Why don't you go to Hell? Or Cuba! Is the same gddamn thing!"

No it ain't. Is an amazing place. I heard is beautiful or that's what my uncle and his Cuban wife tell me.
Too bad you can't visit in now, thanks to Bush's brand new sanctions.
I wouldn't live in Cuba, though. There aren't a lot of movies in their cinemas. Maybe spending a vacation in the summer.
I'll like to meet the Old Fox before he goes. I'll have an interesting conversation with him on politics and the merits of Communism.


Giorgio Luigi Gambino

I'm certainly not up on Cuban politics, but it would seem to me that either Castro is doing something right, or he has a real strangle hold on the whole island. How long has he been in power? 40+ years. Is there any country any where in the world that has had the same ruler for that long? A handful at best. All the other "Communist" dictators have been deposed or their countries restructured.

This argument has been going on for more that 40 years and Castro is still there.

Don't you think Castro is thankful for Florida electoral politics? He can cleverly blame every problem on the US embargo! Gee, if something hasn't worked for 40 years, why keep trying the same thing?

The people in that country are scared of Castro and the power that he has over them. They haven't had the balls to rebell. Those that dispise him decide to take refuge in America.

I am a Cuban AMerican. Everyday I talk to my Grandmother, who after being married to a Marine for several years in the United States, went back to Cuba to see her father who was dying. She lived through Castro's revolution. There we're gunfights in the hills of Cuba for over a year. The people thought he'd be beter than Bautista, but he would become a monster.

My grandmother had to come to AMerica without a husband, with two childeren (Ages 11 and 9) because Castro (The Not So Bad Guy) had launched Cuba into turmoil.

It's a beautiful country if you have MONEY! Something Castro can use. If you ae a foregner, chances are your living in a resort, were you can not see Castro's atrocities.

Why don't you look at some photo's of the slums of Havana sometimes, huh? People have only governemnt controled stations on the air, and any networks that come in from the US, are censored by Castro's totaliterian policies.

Castro's enemies were people that disagreed with his ideals! Do we kill people we don't agree with? Hell no!

I will tell you one thing, Castro is a very inteligent man. The fact that he has his law degree and is such a great orrator (and he is) proves his inteligence. That still does not change the fact that he is a horrible, dispicable man.

..and poverty has DECREASED under Castro.

No, we just kill people who don't listen to us when we tell them to do something.

Couldn't have said it better myself, Mike.

There are slums in EVERY country. -Pat

Where have you gotten that idea? Just wondering because I looked up economic data on Cuba and the poverty level was unknown.

At any rate, I can't believe that anyone here is defending Castro. If he is such a great guy, why do thousands of Cubans flee each year? Castro has imprisoned, tortured, and murdered thousands of his own people over the years. Disagreement with the government is simply not tolerated. I find it despicable that people would be willing to defend a man that has oppressed his own people for 40 years.

Where have you gotten that idea? Just wondering because I looked up economic data on Cuba and the poverty level was unknown.

At any rate, I can't believe that anyone here is defending Castro. If he is such a great guy, why do thousands of Cubans flee each year? Castro has imprisoned, tortured, and murdered thousands of his own people over the years. Disagreement with the government is simply not tolerated. I find it despicable that people would be willing to defend a man that has oppressed his own people for 40 years. [/quote]OMG! Thank you! I finally have back up on here!

Where have you gotten that idea? Just wondering because I looked up economic data on Cuba and the poverty level was unknown.

At any rate, I can't believe that anyone here is defending Castro. If he is such a great guy, why do thousands of Cubans flee each year? Castro has imprisoned, tortured, and murdered thousands of his own people over the years. Disagreement with the government is simply not tolerated. I find it despicable that people would be willing to defend a man that has oppressed his own people for 40 years. [/quote]A Republican talking about something he hasn't researched and knows nothing about. :rolleyes: Who would've thought? :rolleyes: Why do Cubans flee each year? Because they're the ones that DO have it bad, but DON'T rebel because there are too many people who still LOVE Castro for what he has done. Disagreement with the government isn't tolerated? Wow, you know, it's usually not if a country is communist. :rolleyes: Oppressed his own people?! He freed them from Batista, who is 50 times more worse then Castro himself! -Pat

PAtrick, you are a communist... I jsut can't belive some of these statements.

Oh good God. Are you insane? I'm not the one who didn't research Pat, I asked you to post sources to back up your claim that the poverty level was lower under Castro than under Batista because I DID research this. I looked economic statistics on Cuba specifically to find if your claim was correct. I found nothing to support what you said, so I asked for sources. Surprisingly, I actually do research things before I reply to them in threads, and I suggest you should do the same. You have no evidence that there are people that "love" Castro, and judging by the thousands of people that attempt to leave Cuba each year, I'd say he is generally hated, as most dictators are. Why you attempt to defend a murderous, repressive, communist dictator is a mystery to me, especially since you have no evidence to back up any of your claims.

Oh good God. Are you insane? I'm not the one who didn't research Pat, I asked you to post sources to back up your claim that the poverty level was lower under Castro than under Batista because I DID research this. I looked economic statistics on Cuba specifically to find if your claim was correct. I found nothing to support what you said, so I asked for sources. Surprisingly, I actually do research things before I reply to them in threads, and I suggest you should do the same. You have no evidence that there are people that "love" Castro, and judging by the thousands of people that attempt to leave Cuba each year, I'd say he is generally hated, as most dictators are. Why you attempt to defend a murderous, repressive, communist dictator is a mystery to me, especially since you have no evidence to back up any of your claims. [/QB][/quote]Although I never finished reading it after school let out. This is/was my source:

It's a book that tells you the passion Castro had to fix that country up. And I apologize for my Republican remarks, but anyone who talks ALL negatively about that guy obviously has learned it from a totally biased source. Like I said, I don't think the guy should be considered a hero, but he's certainly not as bad as cut out to be. -Pat

Oh good God. Are you insane? I'm not the one who didn't research Pat, I asked you to post sources to back up your claim that the poverty level was lower under Castro than under Batista because I DID research this. I looked economic statistics on Cuba specifically to find if your claim was correct. I found nothing to support what you said, so I asked for sources. Surprisingly, I actually do research things before I reply to them in threads, and I suggest you should do the same. You have no evidence that there are people that "love" Castro, and judging by the thousands of people that attempt to leave Cuba each year, I'd say he is generally hated, as most dictators are. Why you attempt to defend a murderous, repressive, communist dictator is a mystery to me, especially since you have no evidence to back up any of your claims. [/b][/quote]Although I never finished reading it after school let out. This is/was my source:

It's a book that tells you the passion Castro had to fix that country up. And I apologize for my Republican remarks, but anyone who talks ALL negatively about that guy obviously has learned it from a totally biased source. Like I said, I don't think the guy should be considered a hero, but he's certainly not as bad as cut out to be. -Pat [/QB][/quote]SO if I talk bad about Hitler, I got it for a biased source?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Talk about a totally biased source. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Oh good God. Are you insane? I'm not the one who didn't research Pat, I asked you to post sources to back up your claim that the poverty level was lower under Castro than under Batista because I DID research this. I looked economic statistics on Cuba specifically to find if your claim was correct. I found nothing to support what you said, so I asked for sources. Surprisingly, I actually do research things before I reply to them in threads, and I suggest you should do the same. You have no evidence that there are people that "love" Castro, and judging by the thousands of people that attempt to leave Cuba each year, I'd say he is generally hated, as most dictators are. Why you attempt to defend a murderous, repressive, communist dictator is a mystery to me, especially since you have no evidence to back up any of your claims. [/b][/quote]Although I never finished reading it after school let out. This is/was my source:

It's a book that tells you the passion Castro had to fix that country up. And I apologize for my Republican remarks, but anyone who talks ALL negatively about that guy obviously has learned it from a totally biased source. Like I said, I don't think the guy should be considered a hero, but he's certainly not as bad as cut out to be. -Pat [/b][/quote]SO if I talk bad about Hitler, I got it for a biased source? [/QB]

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That is absolutely the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Hitler wanted to exterminate a whole race and nearly did. Wow. Just don't even reply to this. I thought it couldn't get much worse then your, "But Fidel kills his enemies" comment, but WOW!


Freddie C.--Have you read the book? -Pat