Bruce Jenner

Anyone see the special interview with Jenner last night? Opinions? One thing I will mention is that he never had an auto accident until he became a woman
I think the media is trying to promote this lifestyle. Shortly a new TV series about this will start.

He's going to look a bit freakish - he'll have the body of a 25 year old AND 80 year old woman! Honestly though, why bother at that age? Attention seeking fame whore..

Why isn't this man in jail after he committed involuntary manslaughter?

Of course it is. That whole LGBT thing is a media invention. So is the "It Gets Better" project. And while the latter is admirable because it's aimed at depressed and confused teenagers, the former is funded by phony Hollywood Lefties who are half-gay themselves and can't deal with it.

I have no problem with gay people. I've lived in New York City for more than half a century. You live here, and you become sensitive to what people who are "different" go through. But it's the media shoving this LGBT crap down our throats that drives me crazy.

Oh, Bruce Jenner is nuts. And that has nothing to do with his sexual preference. He could be married to Cindy Crawford and banging Halle Berry on the side, and I'd still say he's crazy.

Jenner should have the balls to do the right thing before he cuts them off.

They wouldn't know where to house him/her/it.

still, hard to believe that an olympics games champion would change sex. if the media promotes this kind of lifestyle, then we straight people are not being heard at all.

bill Clinton started most of this liberal same-sex thinking by letting gays in the military where they don't belong. back in the 90s.

There was a programme on the other week by Louis Theroux about confused KIDS from about 4up who's parents were putting them forward for a sex change, utterly disgusting.

My father used to work with a telephone company before he retired a few years back and one of his male collegues had a sex change op - Colin to Chloe. He said it just looked like the same guy, hands like shovels, but with long hair and a dress on. All the staff were warned to act as if nothing had happened, any negative comments would result in disciplinary action etc. People can do what they want I suppose, but Trannys/sex change people must understand how utterly ridiculous they usually look and not demand that everyone else entertains their fantasies...you can bet Bruce Jenner will insist on being called Betty and if anyone mentions anything negative they'll be accused of being against the entire LGBT "community". Will he have to return his Mens Decathlon medal?

That's what drives me up a wall. If they're confused at 16, maybe they ARE straight. But the Left will have none of that. To them, confused means they MUST be gay.

You get a kid at that age and you can make him/her whatever the fuck you want. If you need proof, look no further than terrorist groups who hand out AK-47s to ten-year-olds.

No one---but no one---should be coerced into a sexual preference. Middle aged gay men have been preying on these "confused" teenagers (many of them not of legal age yet) for years. They tell them they're "helping them come out of the closet." Bullshit. They're trying to cornhole a 16-year-old boy, plain and fucking simple.

Let them decide for themselves, that's all I'm trying to say.

I cannot imagine why anyone cares if people choose to change gender. They aren't hurting anyone.

It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg......

PB, exactly, what is a kid NOT confused about at that kind of age. Any adult, especially their parents, should definitely not be putting them forward for a sex change..what's the world coming to?

Helen-the example I gave shows just why it does impact on others unfairly. A colleague you worked with for years suddenly comes in dressed as the opposite sex, looking ridiculous and you've just to pretend nothings happened. If he/she feels you aren't playing the game completely, you might lose your job? Its a completely unnatural situation in which others are expected to act naturally. Its like a sick version/twist of the emperors new clothes

I am so bothered by Jenner. He was a hero to us kids. Now the guy is obviously friggin nutso.

I believe the gender confusion starts at a very early age. What I noticed since I've been working around kids all my life is that at the AGE OF 3 is when these kids start to want and do things that are not necessarily acceptable behaviors. They are VERY EASILY INFLUENCED.

They, meaning boys, start wanting to put on lipstick and play in the kitchen and with baby dolls. There is an interest there. Now they are just curious. It's UP TO THE ADULTS to steer them in the right direction. They also need to have MALE role models who show them how to act like men and/or females who do not allow them to be effeminate.

I used to help out at a preschool. When this kid wanted to wear high heels and lipstick I gave him chap stick and bought him some costume fireman boots to wear. He did wear the heels a few times but I did not pay him any mind. I didn't give what he was doing ANY ATTENTION. Then he went back to wearing the boots. This is what adults need to do. Once a kid sees that he/she gets attention for doing these things they do them MORE OFTEN. Parents think it's cute behavior. Look how cute my Joey looks in lipstick and heels I'm gonna take his pic isn't it funny? NO it's not funny it's friggin stupid to do that. This is a very influential age and if you do not do something to stop it they will continue to think IT'S OK BEHAVIOR.

Fergie- If you have an opinion on what your hypothetical coworker did why say anything? I work with people who I think have shitty spouses, are raising their children badly, are overweight and look ridiculous, etc. But I don't say a word. Its not my life, so its not my business.

I'll give you a similar example - some people are flat out racists. They may work in an office with black people. Can they say racist things to their black coworkers and not get in trouble?

And if a kid is confused about sexuality or gender identification, the issue is there. Most straight kids don't go through a period where they're confused. They just like the opposite sex period, without ambiguity from as soon as they begin to have sexual feelings. Thinking you can make a kid gay is as silly as those religious nuts that think they can pray them straight.


I look down on jenner more for his life with the vile kardashians than a sex change

Well if the guy in a dress starts demanding to use the female toilets, do the females in the office have any right to be uncomfortable? Or if he keeps using the male toilets, do the guys have a right to be a bit confused when he's doing his make up opposite the urinal? Should you be disciplined if you are confused with the situation?

Its not that people might overtly or deliberately say something offensive, but the lack of understanding around how to treat this issue may well lead to others being treated unfairly. Theres an expectation that everyone shouldn't even consider being shocked/surprised. Do you seriously think the vast majority of people would have no reaction whatsoever if a tranny turned up the their place of work who used to be called Bob and now said he was Brenda? Its an OBVIOUS change which people will naturally react to, its not comparable to racism -already though, and you're proving it, I can just see people being accused of that level of hatred if they fail to understand/accept things...

There's no reason anyone who is confused should be disciplined. Confusion would be natural.

Shock and surprise would also be natural reactions. We are humans after all, and gender transformation is a complicated thing.

As far as toilets go, I think that one is pretty simple. genitals would dictate which toilet they use, the same as non trans people. Penis=little boys room,vagina = little girls room.

Helen, when Jenner has his surgery, I challenge you to post here and confirm he doesn't look like a complete freak and you've never even thought it strange that he now has a new first name. If he worked beside you, it wouldn't cross your mind to even comment on it to a co-worker? Would you report your co-worker if they made a negative comment to you about it?

The toilet issue isn't that straight forward, if they are pre-op and dressed as the opposite sex, they might demand to use whatever one they felt appropriate. If that was your company, what would your decision be? Bearing in mind you don't want to be sued...

I would be interested to know the real numbers of gays that actually saw combat. Like to know how many dead and in wheel chairs. There are from Iraq and Afghanistan.

fergie- So what if he looks like a freak? I'm not fucking the guy,lol. I see freaky looking people all the time, and 99% of them aren't trans. Just freaks.

And yes,if one of my coworkers became a trans I would definitely talk about it with other coworkers. Gossiping is human nature. But if I had liked that coworker before they changed I would still like them, and would treat them as kindly as I had before.

As for the toilet thing I don't get all freaked out because I'm a woman. We don't piss out in the open like men, so even if a man wearing a dress and taking hormones uses my ladies room there still is privacy. Stalls with closed doors. You guys using urinals have it different, but no one with a vagina is using a urinal, even if they're a woman transforming into a man.

This guy was married three times. He had 2 kids with each wife that's 6 kids total.

I find it hard to believe he is that weak that he could not shut his mouth about this just for his kids sake.

Foot, why would you like to know how many gays saw combat? Lol!

What about if he had both. Then he could really go fuck himself.

Seemingly he considered the op back in the 80's, but didn't for the sake of his kids. Now he's nearly in his 80's obviously its a great time to go ahead with it and have the tits of a 25 year old porn star and a vagina stronger than a jockeys left hand grip stuck on the body of an old man-Im sure that'll make him happy

To see if they really are gays in the military and if they really did fight and die for our country. I don't believe they were a lot of them.

Lol, there have been gays in the military as long as there has been a military. The Spartans were famous for it. Alexander the great, Lawrence of Arabia......Baron Friedrich Wilhelm Augustus von Steuben- maybe you are not familiar with his name,he served as Inspector General and Major General of the Continental Army during the American Revolutionary War. He is credited with teaching the Continental Army the essentials of military drill and discipline, and helping to guide the United States towards victory against the British. He served as General George Washington’s chief of staff in the final years of the war. He originally served in the Prussian Army, before he was forced to resign because of being homosexual. George didn’t have a problem with this and hired him on to train the troops at Valley Forge. If he hadn’t, we might still be a colony to Great Britain.

Even Churchill famously said "Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy, and the lash."

yes, I agree with you completely, let the kids alone.

I cant help having a caricature picture in my mind when I hear about gays fighting in the military. Nothing at all against gay people, but it just sounds funny..

it is funny, and thank bill Clinton for it.

Apparently LGBT will turn into LGBTQ to include "queer" too just in case you're not 100% sure... because nowadays even if you don't even know what the fuck you are, you deserve some extra rights.

Mainly the right to be "offended"...

I would like to say that to each his own with this transgender stuff but I just can't. Being gay or lesbian is one thing but changing your gender really bothers me. I can't imagine someone dating a person thinking he/she is a male or female only to find out that he/she changed gender. To me, it's completely disgusting. I do not think I will ever accept it.

I don't care about the Jenners or the Kardashians, I look forward to the day where I don't have to hear about them.

I watched the Met game last night, I wouldn't have watched it if I wasn't watching the game. It is all for t.v. and ratings these people will do anything to stay/be in the news. They are becoming irrelevant so they need something like this to boost their fan base. I do think it is funny that how big a deal it is with all that is going on in the world these people are on the front page of the news. They are winning

I try to live by "not my wife not my life," I don't care how people want to live, I live my life how I see fit they do what they do that being said god forbid a gay or lesbian wants to defend their country, the constitution and our rights. It's not like a gay man is wearing a hot pink fatigues and is scared to break a nail



Probably would be very uncomfortable if I was on a date and found out the women is actually a man that is where I would have to draw the line.

Alfanosgirl, totally agree..transgender is the beyond the threshold of acceptance for me. It just should never be taken seriously as a physical condition, its psychological and should be treated as such. Cutting off/adding bits to bodies and pretending your the opposite sex is just plain wrong and yes, disgusting.

Except science shows that it is a physical condition. Trangenders have both different gene sequences in the NR3C4 and CYP17, and different brain structure in the Stria terminalis

Well if thats correct, its still only the cause, not the treatment. Surely treatment should never at any stage be to start slicing and dicing genitalia and creating freaks? Surely psychological support would help people cope better with the problem? You cant go changing peoples sex..they will never really be accepted seriously by anyone they meet.

Yes Helen, but with XX and XY chromosomes determining their outward gender, what would that make them at the very best? Androgynous? My point is that you can't prove that someone is really a man and not a woman, or really a woman and not a man, by using DNA, while simultaneously ignoring the glaring presence of the XX and XY.

If Bruce Jenner has XY throughout his body, he is male. End of story. And he admitted as much in the same interview wherein he declared himself a bonafide woman. He said he has "a feminine side". Well there it is, Ladies and Gentlemen. If he is a woman, why would he have a "feminine side"? You only have a feminine side, if you are a man.

I say he is just a gay man that wants to cross dress and role play in the bedroom, and he's trying to make himself seem more complex and mysterious ("transexual") than what he actually is (which a lot of women tend to do also btw).

But sex and gender are different. Sex is biological, so your point regarding chromosomes above applies there. You can turn a penis into a vagina but would still have male genes.

Gender is characteristics that a society or culture delineates as masculine or feminine. So while you can't change your biological sex, you can change gender. Which is what trans people do.

I also don't think Bruce Jenner is the ideal example of trans people. He came across quite strange in his interview, or at least in the clips I bothered to watch.

Like, where he wants to be a woman, but is still attracted to women but wouldn't then consider himself a lesbian. That's the opposite of what most trans people would think/how they identify.

The only thing that really bothers me about trannies is when they want to be called by the opposite label and use opposite bathrooms and stuff like that when they haven't even had an operation yet. Taking pills and wearing a dress doesn't make you a woman. Being gay is fine, changing sexes is weird but not something I lose sleep over, but you at least gotta get your Wang chopped off before you call yourself a woman

I would never accept them as the opposite gender, no way. Whatever you're born as is what you are. There's disabled kids and kids with down syndrome who would love to just have a normal life. And then you have there's these nuts complaining about their gender.

Fuckin Whacko.

But can't you see, that if gender is nothing but what society dictates and nothing more, then there is nothing to change. You are talking about changing a social construct, not the person. So it is immaterial, and he is still male with a bunch of ever shifting social constructs swarming through his mind. Understand?

he's going to piss off nickyeyes1, first he's going to move to Chicago, then he's going to have a try-out with the white sox. or it it she?

Although he said that he "feels" like a woman and is biologically a man who is attracted to women, he said that he's asexual and has no interest in having sex with anyone. He's 65 years old and wants to stay celibate for the rest of his life.

The side issue of the cause of this brought up by Alfanosgirl is on the money. The argument we hear is that it's either biological or a choice. That's really an either/or fallacy that leaves out the truth: it's developmental. There's no known biological or genetic reason for homosexuality or transgenderism despite all the research that's gone into it. Yet the explanation that Alfanosgirl pointed out should be obvious to everyone. During the earliest years of childhood development some behaviors are encouraged so you get more of them. It's not only basic behavioral psychology, but basic economics.

No,because there's self identifying as well which is part of gender identity. And if people want to go through hormones and surgeries to change themselves I have no issues with it. Like I said up thread it causes me no injury.

I guess we see it differently. And that's fine, the world would be less interesting if we all thought the same way. I take no issue with opposing views,especially when people can disagree and discourse repectfully. But I don't now, and never will take issue with what other people do as long as they don't hurt anyone.

But that's just it Helen, he has killed someone, very recently. Several days ago to be precise. Maybe you didn't hear about it? The car accident?

You see, he might have had that accident because what he is going through is very painful, thinking that by changing an immaterial social construct he can change his very soul.

I think everyone mocking Bruce needs to stop because he might kill again.

He mentioned on the TV interview that he thought about taking himself out to end his pain. So this is not harmless. We can encourage him and empower him, but where is his pain coming from then? We can call him a her, and let her use the lady's room, and serve in the military amongside fighting men while wearing lipstick, yet he is still in pain. So something is wrong there and it's not society oppressing him. Maybe just maybe his pain is because he bought into the line of bullschitte that he was born into the wrong body. Of course he will try to kill himself if he can't get a sex change, because, after all, he's in the wrong body.

???

Dude, youre hilarious


Bruce may just be a shitty driver, like all women

ok somewhat related to topic

Does anybody here know where the term or phrase "gay Bruce" comes from?

I saw a special about the Incredible Hulk tv show and they explained why the TV character was David Banner and not Bruce Banner like in the comic book. Something about a phrase term "gay Bruce" from the 1970s...and while that wasn't the direct reason....it impacted the decision to change the name of the character for tv.

Now I remember watching the doc. and, having never heard of the term or slang, thinking that it was a joke. I thought that Bruce Jenner's popularity in the 1970s would have removed any stigma that there was attached to the name Bruce. Wheaties boxes, tv appearances,endorsements..you name it. Coming off his decathlon gold and for several years after I cannot think of a more popular American sports figure in the mid to late 70s.

He's basically going to fit into the same category as Michael Jackson, which he'll no doubt secretly love.

Speaking of the hulk- If Bruce Banner gets a sex change, does that mean The Hulk is a lady now, too? Or would The Hulk have to get his own procedures? And how would that work??? Are there even scalpels strong enough to perform surgery on him? Would his Hulk form be affected by hormone therapy?

Even worse, would the hulk then get PMT?!

I'm not going to be mean, but Monthy Python predicted this bullshit going back 30 years now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFBOQzSk14c

Stan: It’s every man’s right to have babies if he wants them.
Reg: But you can’t have babies.
Stan: Don’t you oppress me.
Reg: Where’s the fetus going to gestate? You going to keep it in a box?

There is no science-based medicine reason to do this procedure. People that undergo this monstrosity have either the same or higher rates of suicide post op. Most of the time, the entire thing is paid for by the government or your insurance company- both raising the rates/tax dollars for everyone.

Then, on top of all this, these people come to your work and send emails DEMANDING that you call this man with no unit a "woman" in all conversations. Sorry, you don't get to change the fucking discourse and how I use the language. If someone came in tomorrow said he was "Napoleon" and demanding he was to be referred to as "Emperor of the French"- who would allow this bullshit.

Finally, as documented by harvard psychologist steven pinker- this is a long running trend in an attempt to say there is no difference between men and women. Which is the liberal dream- the deconstruction of the family, any gender distinctions, any small societies beyond the government.

Yup, the androgynous Far Left fantasy. A Black guy, married to a post-op White "woman," raising a baby born in China. God Bless America.

Nicky, thats the problem, as I said earlier, your work will essentially demand that you DO entertain the person's fantasy and call her Brenda from Monday onwards. If not, you'll have to leave and no doubt be made to feel like a closet trannyphobe-or whatever name society eventually is forced to call people.

Its not a case of live and let live, its the fact you will be forced to join in with the "Emperors new clothes" bullshit. As I said, its ALREADY happened at my fathers old workplace. The women were forced to accept this guy using their toilets - a 6foot guy with long hair and a dress trying to force conversation about make up etc with female co-workers was just creepy and everyone thought so. But mention it, or attempt to be offended, and you can clear your desk.

The gays have already won the culture war here in America, and I honestly don't care. It's over. You can't unring a bell, and I don't give two shits what two adults do in their own bedrooms. But two things:

1) Don't force it on my Church (which they've essentially already done by barring Catholic Charity adoptions because they won't allow gays to adopt).

2) My kids are grown. My son just turned twenty, and he's the youngest. They're all straight. But had one of them been gay, I would have lived with it for THEIR happiness. But God forbid one of them was in the guidance counselor's office back in high school, and someone tried to coax them into a gay lifestyle, I probably would have killed someone. And, unfortunately, I mean that. Let nature take its course, and let these kids decide for themselves.

So again, if you're gay, you're gay. But as far as this androgyny goes:

Both sides (Left and Right) are all too quick in invoking the Founding Fathers of this country. Well, I like to think I'm a Centrist. But I do lean a little left or a little right depending on the situation. But what do you think the Founding Fathers would think of an androgynous world?

Yeah, that's what we broke away from England and fought countless (and often pointless) wars for: Androgyny .

Thanks to the complicity of the left wing media and moderate democrats who voted democrat but would rather have died before seeing their son's kiss another man.

Do these people still vote for these dems?

Having views that lean to the left or right depending on the situation is EXACTLY how any truthful and right minded person should think PB. You wont find many politicians who would admit thinking that way, which is mainly why they cant be trusted.

The acronym, LGBT is a clue in itself as to how this will play out. For some reason, the "tranny community" is becoming more vocal (in whatever pitch), probably wound up by others in that acronym getting their agenda on the table and it wont be long before crazy equality demands are made. I can see it now, 2 sex changed people having a kid...thatll be nice for the child eh.

Unfortuantely, this type of person will never honestly be treated seriously by any right minded people, and its unfortunate for everyone.

As Ive said before, if I were gay, I would be outraged that I was lumped in the same group as transexuals.

Is Bruce Jenner basically saying he's a eunuch?

The emergence of the T in the "LGBT" helps the gay community because by comparison they are more "normal" to many straight people.

I joked in a thread before about how outsiders can't keep up with whatever new term a specific group is using to identify as. The same guy who forgot to go to jail and tell Billy Batts that Tommy don't shine shoes anymore isn't getting the word out fast enough about these new terms.

Maybe 2 years ago, I read that using the term "sexual preference" is now either offensive or wrong. The correct term is now "sexual orientation" because apparently preference indicates choice..and yada yada yada.
It's cool, have no problem using the correct term.

The golden rule states that the ones with the gold make the rules. Lot of very power and influential people in that LGBT community, so this is just how it is.

There ARE gays in the military. My daughter works for the Army and they have been instructed on how to handle and address gay couples. I don't think I've ever seen any though.
Back when I lived in NY there was a small town where a man came home and told his family that he was now "Peggy". His son, a star HS football player committed suicide. I ran into him in a grocery store one time and couldn't stop laughing. (Yes I was immature) He had on high heels and nylons and a dress and cute little purse, and stood about 6'5" with huge hands. Down here, up in Raleigh NC there is a militaria collector show several times a year. One of the dealers decided a couple years ago that he was now a female. Now he shows up in a dress, heels makeup and wigs but still sits there selling helmets, bayonets and other assorted militaria.

I have nothing against the LGBT community. I do feel they are a little heavy handed in their tactics, but overall, I say live and let live.

I'm not a religious person, but I would be opposed to the LGBT community trying to impose their will on churches. Separation of church and state works both ways: the government can't institute a "national religion", and gays shouldn't be able to force religious institutions to perform gay marriage ceremonies. It is fundamentally against their belief system (right or wrong), which makes it unconstitutional to force them to perform these ceremonies.

On to Bruce Jenner. I think he truly is a confused man who has legitimately been dealing with a confusing issue his whole life. I'm not an expert on the science behind sex and gender, but I am sympathetic to those who deal with these issues. Bruce Jenner feels like he's a woman. He's more comfortable being a woman than being a man. He had the decency to wait until all of his children were adults to finally come out with it. Could it all be for publicity? Absolutely. There's nothing I wouldn't put past that group of publicity whores. But I don't think that's the case here.

Just my two cents.

And a bottomless pit of money, mostly from the Hollywood elite. That's why I said the culture war is over. That's as far as the gays go. But this androgyny crap is an entirely different story.

There are gay men in this country that are a lot more conservative than you'd think. And most of them don't want to be lumped in with a bunch of trannies who had their junk cut off.

Hes a guy though, not a woman! There's things in life you just need to accept and get on with it. Instead of bleating on about it and turning yourself into a freak that no one will ever take seriously, grow a bigger set of balls and enjoy life

Or get them cut off. Like Bruce .

The problem is that they are imposing their beliefs on others. Kindergarteners are now being taught about LGBT and as they advance they are being taught LGBT sex acts. They go after Christian businesses and not only shut them down, but some threaten them with arson and death. In Oregon a Christian baker was not only forced to close her business, a judge recommended that she pay $135,000 -- an amount so high that she and her family will be forced to live in poverty. When supporters started a crowdfunding campaign on GoFundMe, GoFundMe shut it down. LGBT extremists have gone after several other Christian business owners, but as far as I know I have heard of a single case where a gay couple demanded that a Muslim bakery cater to them. LGBT activists have also tried to rewrite American history and put in school textbooks, like claiming that Abraham Lincoln was gay. There are plenty of other examples where they FORCE their beliefs on others.

There are extremists on every side of every argument, be it "creationism vs. evolution" or "traditional marriage vs. gay marriage." As I stated, I'm not religious, and my religious friends and family members respect that and don't try to force their beliefs on me. But then there are incidents where someone will try to force their beliefs on me, and it pisses me off. So I can understand the outrage at those in the LGBT community trying to force their agenda on the masses. It's one thing to promote equality. It's an entirely different thing to go out of one's way to harm or negatively affect someone who doesn't agree with them. So I'm with you on that, but I'd also extend that anger towards any sort of extremist.

Wonder what this guy thinks about all this?..

Very well put.

Probably something close to this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nL95ieVXbHM

Seeing this reminds me of when I was a teenager. Back in the Madonna wanna days, I dressed up like her. My dad says to me what the hell are you wearing ya got 9 million bracelets on, ur hair looks like a wreck all over the place and who wears gloves with the fingers cut out of em. You look fuckin ridiculous. He wouldn't walk near me, he crossed the street and walked on the other side til we got to the party lol.
The funny part was that all the ppl my age were dressed the same as me lol

Very interesting. I looked into what you said about how it may be a physical condition. Although many of these individuals may feel "disconnected" to their biological gender most go on to live normal lives. Only a small percentage of them actually go through with the surgery. I still believe that it is more of a developmental behavioral issue than a biological one.

I am going to go out on a limb and guess that most of the guys who walked into that military memorabilia store and saw the tranny holding the bayonet...did not laugh.

What a dangerous situation.

"Kindergarteners are now being taught about LGBT "

What? Before puberty, no stranger should be trying to educate kids about sex in any way shape or form. That is perverted all by itself.

These days as a parent you need to constantly communicate with your kids. If you do not then they can be guinea pigs for these educators. Be aware of what these teachers are teaching and preaching. This goes for coaches too. Don't ever assume that every one of these educators have your children's best interest in mind. Most do but some don't and will try to push their ideals and beliefs on your children. Communication is the key. Be a smart parent.

For transgenders it's not all that cut and dry. Behavior can change the brain due to its neuroplasticity. Learning creates new neural pathways, so what you wrote about could be an effect and not necessarily a cause. As the old dictum says, "correlation does not necessarily imply causation."

I'm not nearly as intelligent as Faithful1. But it sounds a lot like, "What came first, the chicken or the egg?"

My opinion? People can talk themselves into believing whatever they want to fight off the self-hatred. So Faithful1's post makes a lot of sense to me.

And different gene expressions code for every mental illness from schizophrenia to OCD that result in unique, dysfunctional structures. That tells us absolutely nothing.

And there has been study whether these people have the opposite gender's brain structure- hint they didnt. NationalReview's Williamson wrote about it at length.

Wow, that looks like some type of Hollywood inside joke. How prophetic. Back when that first aired, who would'a thought?

yes, I've actually read 2 of Williamson's pieces on transgendered people (cox and manning), they do not dispute the studies that I mentioned, and have both been highly criticized. In fact, the Chicago Sun Times retracted the op-ed on Cox, issuing the following statement:

A recent op-ed piece we ran online that was produced by another publication initially struck as provocative.
Upon further consideration, we concluded the essay did not include some key facts and its overall tone was not consistent with what we seek to publish. The column failed to acknowledge that the American Medical Association and the American Psychological Association have deemed transgender-related care medically necessary for transgender people.
[/i]

So you'll have to understand that some of us dont consider Wiliamson's pieces canon.

And of course, the actual studies are there for anyone who would like to read them without media agenda or editorial, but for pure data

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3402034/
http://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282%2807%2901228-9/abstract
http://www.journalofpsychiatricresearch.com/article/S0022-3956(10)00158-5/abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2754583/
http://m.cercor.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2014/09/12/cercor.bhu194.full
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306453005001770

Brown didn't have a very long career. That had to be right after the Cowboys won their last Super Bowl in '96. Man, talk about prophetic!

I agree that it's likely a combination of development/ biology. I tend to think most things are. Like cancer or schizophrenia. You can have the genetic predisposition but never develop the condition which shows environment plays a role.

And yes, it is only a small percentage who go through with surgery. Most probably find some smaller way to incorporate these feelings into their 'straight' life. It makes me think of those old jokes about the business guy in the 3pc suit with the women's silk undies on under it. There's definitely some truth in jokes like that.

Are transgender people aware of Williamsons works? manning, but especially Cox. I think Cox make sense and I'm sure at least some transgender people would agree. Its those that are uncomfortable with Cox that I take issue with.

They no doubt would like to live without Cox, but unfortunately it's there and the sooner it's acknowledged the better.

Some transgenders seem to be very comfortable with cox. Like Chaz Bono

I bow to your superior knowledge on the subject Helen, you've obviously devoted far more time on Cox than me.

I've just never felt the need to study Cox.

fergie - I'm surprised you haven't studied more about cox. I find most guys have done intensive solitary cox lab studies from the ages of about 12 - 15. They seem to spend countless hours devoted to cox during that period

I think this is really what's at the heart of the matter. The world will continue to spin and society and pop culture will twist and turn in unpredictable ways. The things we CAN control are the ways we communicate with our family members.

I think that at the time, it was just a dig at Marcy Darcy's character....that she looked boyish or androgynous.
Maybe it was a joke about her plastic surgery and changing appearance.

Anybody who is a fan of people snapping on each other..a la Fred Sanford and Aunt Esther from Sanford and Son, Al Bundy and Marcy used to really get in some good jokes.

I was a big fan of this show and the woman who played Marcy was one of the first stars that I remember coming out. Show was funnier back when her original husband, Coach K from Duke, was on there.

I never even thought of that. They could be twins. And he was much funnier than Marcy's second husband.

Nowadays with this bullshit ultraliberal culture apparently you can expect to change your gender and everybody better be okay with it, or else...

What a shitty time and place to live in.

im a lot older than you, and I was a teenager in the 50s, things like this thread is discussing now, were unheard of in my day.

people who were different like that were considered freaks. and you know what? they still are.

Youre sons and daughters wont be able to say that soon Binnie (or grand etc!)

that's what makes me sad, fergie. and its so wrong.

Exactly, kids are EASILY influenced. I think most that are gay are like PB said, probably messed with as kids and told it was ok or they were helping them come out of the closet.

I used to listen to rap some around my son until I noticed he was trying to sing and cuss. Now he doesn't hear ANY of it and gets in trouble if he does. Now his favorite song is Kenny Rogers and The First Edition-Just Dropped In which isn't much better with the background of the lyrics, but he doesn't understand all of that yet.

Hell I've noticed where he'll even drink the same color of Gatorade that I do just so he can be like me. I'm sure if I was a fag he would be following the same path there as well because I'm his father. Luckily mine wasn't around much and I learned to not be him and become my own man even though my Mom raised me alone. Of course she gave me a ton of leeway so safe to say I was wild and crazy. But it all starts as kids, seeing what they see and they will think it is ok. Like Alfanosgirl said, we must teach them and help them along the way. I'm not telling my son he is a fag or actually a woman in a mans body, he can make that choice at 21 and on his own damn dime and not mine. Until then, he is all man and will act like a man.

I see the press are now planning a "paint your nails for Bruce" day...they're quick at spying an opportunity - Miss Bruce no doubt will be profiting...

I've stayed out of this thread for the most part because I loathe reality television types, and to me this is one big money grab, whether or not Jenner has been struggling with his sexuality or not. It's repugnant.

The media--even the Left-leaning media--doesn't give two shits for this guy/girl/thing. They're making millions off of this, and so is the Jenner-Kardashian reality machine.

They're all despicable, and it has nothing to do with this guy getting his nuts chopped off. It's the way they're exploiting it that turns my stomach.

And so it begins PB

That is the truth

"It's bullsh*t it's all bullsh*t and it's bad for ya"- George Carlin

bruce jenner needs help

Well said. It's like everyone else is supposed to play along with the charade.

I've said before how it's funny that liberals are all about science, so called. But when an issue like this comes up, they throw science out the window in favor of their social agenda.

There was this guy I used to see in my doctors office. He was a real strang weirdo.

He was the Principle of the Frank Sinatra HS for the arts.

He wore the worst hair piece I have ever seen anyone wear.

He could not help looking at himself in a mirror. In his minds eye he was gorgeous.

That is what Bruce is probably going to think of himself when he gets whatever it is he is getting.

Science has always been subject to politics and social agendas. Just look at global warming...I mean "climate change"...or whatever they'll want to call it five years from now. The extreme Left-wing believes that man-made global warming/climate change/bullshit is a greater threat than ISIS and or nature (including volcanic eruptions, the sun, etc.). The far Left social/political agenda is its own religion. You can even find many YouTube videos of college students stating their belief that the Earth would be better off without humans (I'm still waiting for the mass suicides of these true believers).

I'd say both sides of the political world ignore aspects of science when they feel like it, or it suits their agenda. The anti-vaccination beliefs among clusters of affluent, left-wing parents being a fair example of it on one side, while the denial of evolution by certain members of the right wing is a fair example on the other.

Who denies eveloution?

On the anti vaccination a lot of doctors up until just recently did not have the answer if vacations caused autism or not. If you had a baby 7 years ago you would not know the right answer either

I'd watch it on pay-per-view. Eco-terrorism is the "other" terrorism to which Lefty politicians pay too little attention.

I had babies before 7 years ago, and knew enough to vaccinate them. Wakefield's study, (a study of only 12 children BTW) which was the precursor to the autism/ vaccination scare was discredited almost as soon as it was published, which was back in 1998. I'm also old enough to have known people that had polio, measles, mumps, etc in their own childhoods, which was enough to make me willing to take the minute risk of autism over the risk of these diseases even if it had been true.


As for people not believing in evolution, here's a Pew poll from last year, showing the stats by political affiliation:

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/12/30/publics-views-on-human-evolution/

Look my daughter made a study of that shit. She has a seven year old doctors were telling her to wait as long as possible before getting them.

I'm sure your daughter looked into it, she's a concerned parent.The same way all concerned parents did after Wakefield's study. But its better to have a living child with autism than one that died from whooping cough.

Vaccines also run the risk of dangerous reactions having nothing to do with autism, but we weighed those risks vs. the risk of illness and made our decision. That's they way most medical decisions are, pro vs. con. Benefits vs. risk.

One of the concerns with vaccinations is that they often give several at once, which maybe dangerous to an infant. In those cases it's not anti-vaccination, but just a preference to spread them out. They shouldn't be combined with the anti-vaxers.

Yes, of course they aren't the same. Spacing them makes sense for many people, its easier to monitor a child's reaction to a specific vaccine that way.


But there are too many people who choose to forgo vaccination altogether, and it's a threat to all of us. It compromises herd immunity, endangers babies that are too young to have been vaccinated, the immune compromised and the percentage of us that have been vaccinated but don't develop immunity.

Most routine childhood vaccines are effective for 85% to 95% of recipients. For reasons related to the individual, some of us will not develop immunity. So for some vaccines it can mean 15% are still susceptible, even with the jabs, and most of us don't know as we generally dont get titer tests to check immunity unless we work in healthcare. Add that percentage to the infants and immune suppressed and we're talking about a lot of people that may be affected.

You have some areas of the US where the percentage of unvaccinated is double the norm, like Marin County. Its a public health issue, as the measles outbreak in CA so scarily illustrated.

I know "of course they're not the same," but they've been mentioned together in some media reports that I've seen.

You have no disagreement from me on the necessity of being vaccinated, but clearly part of the reason for the lack of vaccinations is the recent influx of child immigrants from Central America.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "evolution." The people who bring that up seem to forget it's the "theory of evolution." And, if they're talking about limited change, I would't necessarily have a problem with that. But they usually mean that man over million of years descended from apes or some lower form of life, who by extension descended from something that crawled out of a prehistoric pond somewhere. That's ridiculous and has not and will never be proven as scientific "fact." Yet the evolution-loving, religion-bashing lefties just love to talk as if it has been proven.

I think there are so many fags in Hollywood and they have been promoting this kind of crap for ages, brainwashing our youth that this is all OK because they want everyone else to accept their warped lifestyle.

comedy ahead of its time



I'm flipping channels recently and I see a show that looks EXACTLY like the skit that used to run on In Living Color.I'm thinking it's a comedy show but it's an actual show with two flaming Black guys reviewing fashion.

I've never cared about what somebody else was into but I have an aversion to the flamboyant attention seeking flaming gay guys that are parodied in the skit...and who are the real life hosts of the show that is now on the air.

No more comedy sketch shows on tv because here's nothing left to parody. The culture is a living parody.

==
In terms of the blatant LGBT agenda being promoted in popular culture now, I think we have to blame ourselves for being conned into allowing this stuff to flood airwaves. I call it a con because I saw exactly when and how it began. When they started allowing "hot chicks" to kiss each other on tv....male viewers for the most part were all for it.Fringe religious groups protested but nobody else really cared.
You can trace the events from there....

"You gotta stop them in the beginning. Like they should have stopped Hitler in Munich" Peter Clemenza

I think it goes back to the gay-themed shows and shows with gay stars "Will & Grace" and Ellen Degeneres. After they became popular if you disagreed with them you were suddenly a bad person. But before that change in the popular culture the biggest change that led to all this was when the American Psychological Association took homosexuality out of their book of mental disorders. That was way back in 1973. From that point on it was no longer considered abnormal by the psychological community. The backstory on that goes back to the studies Alfred Kinsey did and were published in 1948 and 1951, but what they don't tell you is that he used pedophiles for his information, including prisoners and pedophiles on the street who were literally having sex with BABIES. A few years ago actor Liam Neeson tried to turn Kinsey into some sort of hero.

Along the lines of gender equality

I'm pretty sure it is a joke, just shows you how easily some people are brainwashed

I really hope this is a joke.

It is unfair to women. When I go to the theather we are in and out in less then a minute. Poor women the lines of women outside the women's bathroom can go on forever.

I actually don't know how a women can sit on a public toilet seat. Do they put a ton of toilet paper on top of the seat first before they sit. Who the fuck wants crabs.

Foot you have kids right? With you being married (or was) you should know women don't touch the seat. They squat and hover over the seat

I don't know if that's a joke (I hope so) but there was a real campaign I think it was in Germany where men were encouraged to sit down while urinating just like women, and they even made up some stupid scientific reason that supposedly it's more healthy and now I hear that it's heavily encouraged by the feminists there. Go figure.

I never actually saw a women go to a public bathroom. So that's what they do.i just asked the wife she says she hovers over it

Am I the only guy that had no interest in seeing a women pee? I guess I did not know what I was missing all this time.

I would like to pee on Hillary Clinton.

What do they do with Bruce's penis after the operation? Is it cremated or kept in a jar of formaldehyde?

What do they do with Bruce's penis after the operation? Is it cremated or kept in a jar of formaldehyde?

it will go on e-bay.

The Kardashians thought about keeping it, but what would they do with a white penis.

It'd be a first for most of them .

I never saw my soon to be ex-wife go either, but I still knew she squatted over public toilets.

That's correct. And oddly enough, that's next on the Obama agenda for our military. It's called "Squat to Pee Week."

I'm 40 this year and can't think of a bigger media whore family than the Kardashians in my lifetime... can anyone tell me if there's ever been a more publicity hungry family than the them? (Even including the technology excuse)

What will Bruce's name be now? Or will he keep Bruce? That isn't really much of a ladies name though. Maybe Brianna? Just soft balling ideas.

His name will be whatever his media circus advisors think up...

"[BadWord] Jenner" would be a good start...

I meant "Bunt"

Do not use that word, please... we don't accept "slut shaming" around here.

you will never then or now ever find a more publicity hungry family than they are, why people even bother with these no-talent freaks is beyond me.

Bottom line is that Jenner is a freak.

yes, philly mob you are correct.

Too bad his balls couldn't be given to obama

Word is that Bill Clinton has a vigil waiting for the second that Jenner becomes a woman.

So Jenner's gotta new name now: Caitlyn. How do you like them apples? lol

Good point. He still has an Adam's Apple, so his asshole shouldn't be open for business. He's a freak, who's making millions off this exploitation. I have ZERO sympathy for him or his "confusion."

That might be your best quote

I might feel more sympathetic were it not for the fact he is a part of the most attention seeking family in the history of America. I could care less if she wants to be a woman, but there's going to be a lot of press regarding this. Jenner is arguably the most famous trans person out there right now

It's a money grab, plain and simple.


I think you mean it. "She" was born with balls. And this has nothing to do with homosexuality. Most gays are appalled by this nonsense.

I'm really not educated on this....does he still have his junk? Or can a dude screw him like he can a woman? He reminds me of the cop in Boondock Saints....

You're correct. This has nothing to do with homosexuality in fact Jenner says he/she whatever prefers women.

That's interesting you mention the gay community. You know gay people who think this is bullshit?



He's still got his junk. He can get it removed via surgery after about a year his doc said. The transition process is pretty long. I've known someone who's gone through it

Please.. gender is something you GET TO CHOOSE. This is what Social justice warriors believe. The world revolves around their feelings and if you don't accept it then you're part of this global conspiracy, the biggest one yet, called the "Patriarchy" which is to blame for every single problem in the world.
If you don't accept that then you're automatically sexist/racist/ableist/[insert other shitty label here] etc.

If he is going to transform to a woman who likes women, I guess that will make him a lesbian. A lesbian with male chromosomes.

Social Justice warriors are the fucking cancer of the internet. And I say internet, because these people won't show their worthless faces in public. They threaten, bully, whine, complain, scream and shout from behind a computer. The worst part about it is that they've taken words like 'racism' 'oppression' and 'discrimination' and completely twisted the definition. It's absolute insanity. They're worse than the 'bigots' they fight against(usually white males).

And what's even more peculiar is that issues like homosexuality, transgender people, civil rights, etc have been ruined and marred by these people. They marginalize and stomp all over the very groups they claim to protect. It's sickening and hypocritical to the 12th degree.

Back to Jenner. He'll technically be a lesbian. Whether you believe he's an actual woman is up to the individual. I say let him do what he (or she) wants

The sad thing- I read like three things in the morning. I'll read google news, espn, and yahoo finance. I have little interest in politics at this point and even less in social justice bullshit that the media pushes. I just like to follow my stocks and look at baseball scores.

Even in this small, admittedly narrow world- I cannot get away from this fucking story. Every site is carrying. Every site- from sports sites to fucking stock sites have it on the front page.

You can no longer shield yourself, your children, etc from this shit. It is everywhere. Politics is now injected into everything. Social justice themes must be placed in all parts of life.

I can't stand the kardashians, they are absolutely no-talent tramps. now, brucie or whatever he/she is called now, has his/her picture on the cover of the vanity fair magazine.

looks like the media is indeed fixated on these freaks [kardashians] why, I will never know.

I agree Binnie, I just don't get it either.

Well now it looks like the President weighed in, saying he admired Jenner's courage. Times have changed that's for sure. I can't think of one US President other than our current one that would openly speak about or praise this. Very interesting.

Did he admire General Greene's courage? You know, the hero whose funeral that he didn't even show up for? The highest ranking officer killed in action since Vietnam?

He still can't utter the words Muslim and terrorist in the same sentence, yet he makes time to weigh in on this freak of fucking nature. Courage my ass. It's a repugnant money grab by a man who wants to be a lesbian. Freud couldn't have figured this thing out. And by thing, I don't mean the situation. I mean Jenner itself.

But this is America today. The President of the United States and the Khardashians joined at the hip. Disgraceful.

Apparently putting on a wig and getting a fake pair of tits is more heroic than being a war hero. What a joke.

Obama is so full of shit. Do any of you guys thing that Obama gives a shit about Jenner?

It is just something to say that will keep the fucked up twisted part of his party happy.

What Jenner should have done was tie a rope around his neck and hang himself or have someone do it for him. That would have given his family less grief then what he did. He is a selfish mother fucker.

I would like to see Obama change his name back to Barry. Then maybe I might believe he is an actual American.

Click revenue, Ad revenue. That's it. Nothing more than that.

bruce jenner is one ugly woman

whatever sanity his kids had left is now gone

Bruce Jenner is confused, at the very minimum, and Obama should not have encouraged confused psychotic behavior, at a minimum.

One of the forgotten arts lost to many high profile Americans today, is the art of ignoring things not worthy of attention. When you publicly acknowledge buffoonery, some of it rubs off on you.

I give him credit for trying to be true to himself but his Vanity Fair cover photo has to have inflicted serious emotional damage on his children.

I really think this is Bruce's way of getting back at Kim, Kanye, Courtney, Kris, et al. Viewed that way, it's a humorous saga.

Couldn't agree with you more. I think he wants revenge for what TV did to that family

Just heard that Bruce Jenner won the Arthur Ashe award for courage. And guess who the runner up was? A marine that served in Iraq that lost two limbs (1 arm/1 leg) and still competes in marathons and other sporting events. Makes me sick.

Makes me sick to my stomach!

I am absolutely so friggin disgusted. What is this world coming to? Bruce Jenner you fn dumbass, you were once a hero now look at you!

Bruce is now Caitlyn Jenner. Check out the photo:

http://www.tmz.com/2015/06/01/bruce-jenner-photo-caitlyn-woman-vanity-fair/

You're not the only one! To hell with that weirdo.

Well put. This nonsense didn't need any more attention than it was already getting.

I've never watched the show, and I couldn't tell you what half of the Kardashians even sound like. But there's one headline I'd definitely tune in for:

Kanye Leaves Kim: For Caitlyn.

Now THAT would be some funny shit.

Arthur Ashe award=ESPN=Media=Controlled by out of touch SJW liberal whack jobs

A man with all the money in the world decides to have surgery to change into a women (just to stay relevant and make money, in my opinion) has more courage than someone who served in the armed forces, strange and frightening times we live in. If she has any decency she will decline the award or give it to the Marine

Now that's fucked up. He can be a woman all he wants, but to get a damn award for it.

And PB you're absolutely right about the hypocrisy of Obama. He congratulates this guy for coming out as transgender but doesn't even bother showing up to a General's funeral? Won't even call ISIS Muslim terrorists? He is possibly the worst President of the post WW2 era.

Fuck the Kardashians man. They don't deserve anything they have.

amen to that! I wish all those media whore kardashians would just disappear. the country would be better off.

The guy that Fergie mentioned, who traded in his kilt for a skirt, and the other real life examples of people transforming gender mentioned in this thread are extreme examples of people being honest about who and what they are. Absolutely takes guts to do it. It even takes guts to do it as a rich celeb, because your fame isn't going to insulate you from the ENTIRE world considering you a freak.

There's no law that says that I have to feel comfortable about such a switch or accept anybody who does it. I just recently, in the past 3 years, learned to deal with flaming flamboyant gay men in professional settings.If I had to work with or around transgender folks...would learn to deal with it or work elsewhere.

I've avoided really following the story because, while Bruce should be free to do what he wants, I don't have to pay attention to every step.

If you keep referring to IT as "she," you're only lending credence to this sickening cause.

Yea, thats kind of hard when it is on the front page of every paper, every sports website, every website in the world.

Honest- they are mentally ill people. And going through a procedure that makes outcomes even worse (people commit suicide as much or more afterward). Being brave would be going to therapy. There is nothing brave about dictating to others about your identity and the major narcissism of attention seeking. These lunatics often send emails to major departments or faculties announcing this and threatening consequences for not getting their preferred titles. In my experience, they are people with major issues that now have a trump card for the lunatic behavior- where the guy calling himself Napoleon or Jesus just gets ridiculed.

Eventually, when we end up here- http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada...#__federated=1. You tell me how much longer this bullshit can go on.

Its not about "live and let live". Nobody says they can't do this. It is about restricting speech, shutting down dissent, pushing hardcore ideologies under the guise of compassion down your and your children's throats.

I have no problem with the LGB, only with the T. If you were born with a male organ, then you are not a woman. Simple as that. It doesn't matter how you feel about it. Feelings ain't worth shit.

As for the award, it's physically sickening to think about... it's ridiculous beyond words. Years ago if I saw something similar in a comedy movie I would have just laughed and NEVER in a million years think it would become a reality in a couple of years.

I said it when the whole ROTC in high heels story came out, this is all nonsense just to keep the people focusing on the wrong "issues." We have China strategically taking control of islands in the South China Sea, Russia is becoming more dominant, ISIS gaining power, Iran building a nuclear weapon, power vacuum after power vacuum throughout the Middle East, we have a "recovery" with no jobs. This f**king bulls**t is front page news instead of the US leadership failures, wag the dog.



Who am I to tell Bruce Jenner what to do, how to live his/her/its life. If he/she/it wants to be called her because that is what makes her happy who am I to say no. That being said I think (which drives my liberal friends and family nuts) you should be able to criticize and call them whatever you want without recourse. I don't believe in political correctness, liberals are always preaching freedom but only for those on their side (conservatives do the same).

On the money. They threw themselves into the victim group with the gays (and I admit that in far too many instances that gays HAVE been victims), and it worked. I'm still baffled by how it worked out for them. I can't imagine a self-respecting gay man wanting anything to do with a man who wants to be a woman so he can be a lesbian. It's beyond fucking absurd .

There's people with disabilities who would love to just have a normal life. And then you have these assholes whining about not being the gender they want to be. Give me a break, there's much worse problems than that.

Dudeman you just nailed it on the fucking head.

I personally support Jenner's transition, BUT I also feel if you disagree or don't like it you should have the ability to say so without PC backlash.

Goddamn you should see my news feed. "If you're not supportive of Caitlyn Jenner's transition to a woman like get out you're stupid bigot who should stop being friends with me"

How bout if you don't like someone's opinion, fuckin ignore it! Freedom of speech applies to everyone not just you're feelings

Sick world. I feel bad for you kids. I really do. How old are you guys, 20? Maybe 22?

By the time you have kids that are your age now, you're going to look back at your naivete and make yourselves sick.

Maybe one of your kids will want to enter into a civil union with a goat. And if that happens, you can put it all on yourselves. After all, who were you to tell Bruce Jenner what to do twenty years ago?

0 for 2. Age has nothing to do with anything in this why bring it up?

Bestiality isn't really a rational argument since civil unions are between two consenting adults, besides if someone wants to bang an animal they are going to making it illegal hasn't stopped it from happening yet. Bruce Jenner is an individual who can make decisions for himself. I don't see a problem with people not dictating what is right and wrong and how someone should live. If my neighbor John Smith become a transgender I wouldn't notice and I wouldn't care, why? Because other peoples lives don't affect me

You only think that because you're still a kid (your hipster white boy winemaking abilities aside). Talk to me after you've lived a little bit.


That part was clearly a joke. RockStar Man gets it because he knows me, you don't.

I make beer for the most part and yes I am white, your ability to see ethnicity is superb



It is quite alright, I didn't initiate this interaction and I don't plan on it in the future




I guess I will have to deal with that for the rest of my life

Easy dudeman, PB is a good guy. He was only joking.

He's been around, seen a lot and in the end we could learn a thing or two from him.

Bruce or Caitlyn, whatever you wanna call 'it' is just a person trying to find their identity while also cashing in. This person is part of the most media whore, attention seeking family in the nation. Yet in principle, I do support trans people.

But I also understand while PB and I might not agree on everything, he has my fullest respect. What he believes to be moral is his right.

Hey man that's fine, I am not worried about it.

Good then there are no problems then. All fine and dandy

Pizza, take this as a compliment:

You probably should have been writing comedy professionally.

Now, for all I know, you might in fact engage in that as a lucrative pastime. But if you don't, that is an avenue.

And now he's getting a reality show

Just another publicity stunt from that attention-whore of a family that people of course buy into.

Who is going to watch it? The Immense transexual population and Obama

WHAT? He's got a reality show now? Oh good God. Come on why do we have to draw some much attention to this? Who the hell cares?

Jenner's courageous? Bull shit. He's selfish. A soldier who is willing to put his life on the line for his country and his fellow soldiers is courageous. A woman having the guts to leave her abusive husband is courageous. Not this freak. Makes me sick to my stomach that people are calling him courageous.
The only Caitlyn I care about is the stray dog that was abused and now getting treatment in Charleston, SC.

What's really sickening is how the press is actually playing into this sick BS and calling HIM "Caitlyn."

And Obama just needs to shut up. The sooner that phony piece of shit is out of office, the better.



Fortunately they arrested and charged that (insert N word here) who abused the poor thing.

http://heavy.com/news/2015/06/william-le...dshire-caitlyn/

@Ivy,


Part of the reason why younger generations seem to be more tolerant of others is because they've seen the hypocrisy of past generations.For example, you've planted the morality flag in the ground for years here. Your consistent hateful tone and choice of words are openly in contradiction to a person who actually has morals and self respect though. If an outsider can see this, surely those around you have noted this for years....especially younger generations of your family.
The way a person lives and carries himself speaks louder than any religious posturing or verbal claims of morality.

I don't think anybody compared Jenner to a firefighter, who potentially risks his life every day, or a soldier. There's no comparison. This arbitrary award by ESPN was given to Michael Sam last year, so I mean you can see the politics behind the decision making.

controversial polarizing person = ratings and press coverage

and the rumor about the second place finisher...was...just a rumor

http://m.snopes.com/2015/06/02/caitlyn-jenner-arthur-ashe-espys/

Those who are religious (I'm not really the older generation yet), like myself, have never claimed to be perfect or immune to the same foibles common to everyone (we just recognize our need for a Savior while the younger generation often doesn't). I freely admit I can have a temper at times, and feel strongly about certain things, but I don't think there's anything on this board that I care enough about to truly hate.

I've made no secret that I loath Obama's blatant hypocrisy. He made this big pretense of believing in traditional marriage in order to get the votes necessary to get into the White House. But it's obvious to any objective observer that he's always had liberal leaning views on homosexuality, transgenders, etc. and only now feels free to express them.

One of the things I feel very...and I mean very...strongly about is animal abuse. If you click on that link, what you should be upset about isn't my saying (insert N word here) but the evil SOB's treatment of that dog.

Perhaps I could be a little more eloquent or whatever in expressing my views, especially when I'm angry, but you can't argue what I said about both schmucks above certainly applies.

hit the nail on the head, people with morals don't say (insert n-word)

Watch the 20 second Family Guy video from 2009... yes, over 5 years ago!

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2015/06/03/family-guy-predicted-caitlyn-jenner-news-2009/

great find

Jenner is VERY brave...he must know he'll be passed around like a peace pipe in prison now if he gets convicted!

That's a mental picture definitely worth washing out.

http://eyebleach.com/

😄

Sorry that was supposed to be a smiley face!

This is an extreme mental illness which needs to be treated by MH professionals. I can't believe that a medical doctor could recommend irreversible mutilation as a remedy. Think of how many confused kids who are going through a 'phase' will be influenced by this Jenner freak and think that they can solve all of their problems by having their junk hacked off.

I've being reading up on gender identity disorder and it's shocking how many post op patients commit suicide.

Maybe Jenner should move in with the Duggers.

Good Fit, they can have a new show and make few more Millions.

They can call the show... The Juggers.

strange that someone knew about him then, i don't think the public had any idea at that time.

yeah i think the mothafucka is nuts

Thing that bothers me about this all this attention the media is giving him. It's really disgusting to. Soldiers come home from war and the media could care less.

A kid fighting for his life due to illness is brave.
A woman who finally leaves her spouse after years of abuse is brave.
Not Jenner.

Agreed. I think there is a case to be made that Jenner can be a hero and looked up to in the transgender community. But not in general. There are better things worthy of our time and attention. You couldn't get away from this story. You could live under a rock and somehow the news would still reach you

Mignon, you are absolutely correct. There's scared children fighting for their lives trying to beat cancer and military returning without all their limbs or with brain damage. That's bravery.

Maybe he is just doing all the publicity to further the cause of the transgender community (anyone know where that is so I can stear clear?) in which case, argueably he might be described as a hero amongst their most deranged members. However, I suspect the real reason is hes getting paid "handsomely" for all the publicity and once again selling his worthless soul to the media. That is NOT a hero...

Great article

http://thefederalist.com/2015/06/04/why-bruce-jenner-can-never-be-a-woman/

"Transgendering is inherently sexist because it reduces people to the most shallow aspects of our sexuality and completely ignores our development as men and women."

Something I will never understand nonbinary gender, I met someone last night who told me they are neither a man or a women because they don't feel comfortable with being recognized as that. Now I don't care either way not my business but that has to be one of the dumbest thing I have ever heard

I don't believe that people should apologize for existing.

Some of you have expressed animosity towards towards the growing trend in America(and the West) to stigmatize White men, just for existing.That just by the fact that you are alive and breathing, that you are directly to blame for most of the worlds "isms"...racism, sexism,etc.

I've had discussions in real life with people for years where I expressed my feelings about people wanting me to apologize for BREATHING. Like I am personally responsible for every crime that ever took place and that I cannot move freely within society . I was told to stop playing the victim card, and I kid you not...many of these same folks are now expressing some of the same stuff I used to say. That they are made to feel directly responsible for female victims they never violated, Africans that they never enslaved, murdering people in death camps in Europe, or oppressing people that they never even met.That they must somehow apologize for living as a white male in America(or the West).

I've always said that unless or until something happens to you , it's VERY easy to dismiss it or trivialize it.


I said all that to say that whoever and whatever a person is, they shouldn't have to apologize for living and breathing air. Jenner and some real life people are being open and honest about who they are.I don't have to care, empathize with them, or accept it...but this is still America and they shouldn't have to apologize for being who they are.

that's a good statement nicky, but, these freaks keep it up, and keep it up, not caring who they offend, constantly throwing their perversions in peoples faces.

it's like two gay punks kissing in a public place, and saying they have a right to do it in front of people.

they are wrong -its offensive to people like myself who are not gay, and what about children seeing their sick display.

these people have got to be told that there are people in the world who find them sick and vulgar.

I agree 100%. Solid post gets, I always enjoy your insight

Good posts Gets, however there is a difference...black/white people (men specifically if you like) are who they are and whatever their feelings about how they are judged, we all either accept it, or do our bit to change wider perceptions. The difference with transgender is that, in my opinion, the individual expects others to entertain their fantasy...or else-it's simply not true that they are what they say they are. I find that extremely offensive-if I suddenly said my dog was a cat and demanded you always treat it that way, then threatened legal action against you if you refused to accept my lies, how would you feel? Especially if I COULD actually win the lawsuit...it's life imatating the old fable "the emporer's new clothes". It's not about live and let live, societies are slowly becoming more and more fucked up because of individuals thinking they are oppressed and subsequently being given a platform they never deserved to spout their threatening message of equality. I've said before, any race or gender etc who has REALLY suffered serious inequality, genocide, intolerance surely can't sympathize with transgender people-especially considering they'd have you believe theyve suffered just as much and expect the same level of airtime.

@Ferg,

I'm gonna follow my own advice about "until/unless it happens to you, it's easy to dismiss" and defer to you on your points.You were telling us about first hand experiences and legal issues which I absolutely have not experienced.Things that I'm not qualified to address...and which are very easy for me to overlook.

Touche,Ferg.

Just saying that people shouldn't have to apologize for who/what they are.

great post fergie, I hope you saw mine, im sick of people who threaten someone with legal action because they refuse them service. because they are gay, or transgender. a business should have the right to turn away whomever they want.

a private business is private,and should stay that way.

If two people of the same sex decide to kiss on public property you (not you individualy Binnie) have no right to say yet can't. They have every right to express themselves as if they were a straight couple, regardless if you feel ot is moral or not





100% right, private business should be able to serve who they want without any fear of lawsuit. Freedom= Do what yo want w/o limitation i.e to serve or not serve who you want).

now espn is giving IT the "Arthur Ash" courage award of the year,what a joke, we used to burn people at the stake for a lot less not that long ago(in the scope of human history), you know game of thrones style. now if someone has the audacity to speak out against this hero like snoop dog did the other day, hes the one that gets ostracized. what a great place the world has become.

Well said.

I would also add how it funny that if a person is anorexic, based on an incorrect and faulty image of themselves, they are diagnosed as sick and everyone agrees they should get treatment.

And yet, if a person has an incorrect and faulty image about what gender they really are, they are encouraged to indulge it and lauded for doing so.

The sickness and hypocrisy of the liberal mindset.

Just imagining the surgery alone brings me close to vomiting. My guess is that Bruce did this to embarrass the kardashian family. They have been running around 10 years acting like fools and embarrassing themselves and Bruce.
Now it's his turn. Still disgusting though.

But guys, would you sleep with him for a million bucks?? Some guy essentially will on whatever reality show spin off and he'll pretend he's in love with Bruceyboy etc...! Then they'll fall out and we'll get all the dramatic bullshit that follows..

Explain that one positively to the kids....

What bothers me the most about this is that it's consistently shoved down our throat that transgenderism should be considered "normal" behavior. And that anyone who thinks otherwise and has a different opinion on topics like this should be labeled a socially maladjusted degenerate.

You can't believe how much shit I get from a large amount of my peers when I openly state that I find there's something terribly wrong with transgenderism. Shit I find homosexual behavior pretty distasteful -without pointing my finger at the persons as INDIVIDUALS (I have met some gay men that as persons were alright), it's just the act I find distasteful- so I'm not going to lie and pretend I find there's anything normal with transsexualism because I find that ten times as worse. And if those people have the right to express themselves in their homosexual/transsexual/whatever way in public, I feel I have the right to express my opinion about it. Doesn't matter how negative that opinion might sound to a lot of people, it still is my opinion and I have every right to express that. Because everytime I see obvious transsexuals parading down the street in a major city -and yes also here in Europe in any major city there are plenty of obvious transsexuals and crossdressers walking around- my stomach turns at the sight of it. I'm not going to be violent against them, but it's just the sight of it that I find so distasteful that I can't help being disgusted.

But whenever I openly state outside of my own social circle (which is mostly composed of people who share my opinion on this matter) that I find transsexuals quite distasteful, I'm immediately labeled a sociopath. And that bothers me. Because transsexuals, who not in any way, shape or form practice what I call standard behavior are described as "normal". But I, as someone who expresses his own honest personal opinion on that matter -and I feel I do have the right to express my own fucking opinion as long as I'm not getting violent- on the other hand am considered "abnormal".

I know transgenders can't help the way they are. It's their nature. I get that. All well and good. But at the same time, I can't help my churning stomach either now can I?

Maybe you need a stomach readjustment operation to become normal again!

LMAO

@Killing Joke

I personally support transgender people, but you have a right to believe what you want to believe and say what you want to say. You're not acting violent towards the person and that's all anyone can ask for.

I consider it sad that almost everyone who considers themselves progressive these days will go SJW on anyone who disagrees with their twisted view of the world. And I'm not talking about political Democrats or regular liberals, but the internet types that go crazy and use made up terms like "girlfag" "cisgender" and "white privilege" whatever the hell any of that means.

Do you man. Don't let anyone think you're a psycho just because you have a different opinion. It isn't called freedom of speech for nothing

@ Rockstar_Man

Thanks. Exactly, everyone is free to believe what he/she thinks is right and everyone should be free to express that opinion. You support transgender people and that's fine, it's entitely your right to do so. I on the other hand will never support them. To me it's tasteless, that's just how I feel about it. And I just can't be hypocretical to others and tell them what THEY want to hear.

I support transgender as well, they always make me smile with their quasi feminine appearance...there's always a telltale sign though which keeps us straight guys safe at night...usually hands like shovels, clowns shoes and a voice that sounds like its sucked on 60 marlboro a day for 200 years.

Fairly accurate though.

I think a majority of people can agree that genital mutilation (gender reassignment surgery) is far from normal that is certainly not something I support because you are how "God" made you and that shouldn't be changed.

You can be okay with people doing what they want, as long as they don't interfere on your own life, you don't have to agree with the lifestyle. The idea of accepting someone's life choices without having to agree with lifestyle shouldn't be that hard of a concept to grasp. It is really nobody's business what an individual does, the problem is constantly shoving it in peoples faces trying to force people who have different views to accept it as "normal," which is certainly an understandable gripe people have, on both sides.

SJW are the worst, they generally are "Socialists" who say that they believe in free speech unless it is against what they believe, that is not free speech. Unfortunately you find intolerance of other views/opinions on both sides of the spectrum though.

people thought bruce jenner was the most sane kardashian....I GUESS THE FUCK NOT

i can see how most of the kardashian women are whores and the son is a total punk

Ice T has an interesting take on Bruce Jenner's transgender story
short audio clip

https://instaud.io/8he

Ice says that he's transfinancial....
he's a billionaire living in a broke man's body..gonna start a kickstarter campaign to raise a billion so people can help him be who he REALLY is

@Gets

LMAO
He'll probably really get some money out of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crWSV2V0-8w

Too bad Lord Jamar anytime he opens his mouth in an interview feels the need to somewhere make a borderline racist remark.

Concerning Jenner he has a very good point though.

I like that transfinancial joke lol. I've been hearing, ladies in particular, commenting on how pretty Caitlyn is

Yentl...in reverse



I left Hasidism to become a woman







I left Hasidism to become a woman

By Danika Fears

November 18, 2015 | 9:36am

A man descended from a Hasidic “dynasty” is transitioning into a woman — enraging members of the ultra-Orthodox Jewish community she left behind.

Srully Stein — who now goes by Abby — recently came out as a woman and said she’s finally living as her true self — something she said was impossible to do growing up in her restrictive household in Brooklyn.

“In the community that I was raised in, Trans did not exist, neither was it ever discussed,” the 24-year-old writes in her blog.

“I was therefore convinced that I have to be crazy, and that I have to get this ‘stupidity’ of feeling like a girl, out of my head.”
Modal Trigger
Stein posted these photos to her blog documenting her transition.Photo: thesecondtransition.blogspot.com

Stein — who some say has “royal blood” coursing through her veins because of her grandfather, the prominent Rabbi Mordechai Stein — began hormone replacement therapy Sept. 4.

The results have been “amazing,” she kvelled.

“The road is long, but with the support of some amazing friends and professionals, for the first time in my life I feel like I am getting to be my real self,” she wrote in a recent post, which received more than 20,000 hits in just a couple days.

Stein’s roots trace back to Rabbi Yisroel ben Eliezer, believed to be the founder of the Hasidic Judaism

Her grandfather, Mordechai, was born in Fălticeni, Romania, and her father was born in Israel.

Her ancestors are part of several Hasidic sects, her grandfather’s mother was part of the Twersky family, a “very famous” old dynasty from the Ukraine, she said.

Stein recently broke the news to her father — and hasn’t heard from him since.

“I think right now it’s shock more than anything,” Stein told The Post. “He doesn’t know what to do.”

Others took to social media to spew hate-filled messages about her transition.

Photo: Chad Rachman

“And family is nothing?” one member of the Lee Avenue WhatsApp group wrote. “The lowest scum of earth live with deficiencies with lifelong pain not to hurt their family. I saw your father today in synagogue, he is going to die of the shame you have caused him.”

The person continues: “No human in the world puts his pleasure in front of the pain of his loved ones. What kind of animal are you?”

Another added, “It’s all the devil, the evil inclination that says there is such a thing a man can be born in the wrong body.”

But Stein said she’s prepared for the backlash.

“My main goal is to get people to talk about it,” she said. “I don’t care how hateful the reaction might be within the Orthodox community.”

Stein added that many of the Orthodox people she’s heard from are in “denial” about transgender people.

“For most of them, they don’t even know what this is, they have no context for it,” she said.

Stein said she hopes that will change and that her story will reach other transgender Orthodox teens who’ve been battling similar conflicts.

“Since I’ve gone public, 17 people have reached out to me who still live within the community and struggle with similar things,” she said. “Most of them didn’t know there’s help.”

Stein said that while she felt like a woman for many years, she couldn’t even consider taking action until she left her Orthodox community.

Initially, she followed the traditional path of most in Hasidic Williamsburg. By 18, Stein was married, and soon had a son.

“I was raised in an extremely sheltered community,” she said. “No Internet, no TV and no movies — not even Jewish ones.”

“My family and community was so sheltered that up to around 14 I thought that most of the world is Jewish and most of the Jews are ultra-Orthodox,” she added.

With an intense desire to pursue a college education, Stein divorced, and ultimately left the Orthodox community about four years ago.

Being part of a famous Hasidic family made that split even more difficult, Stein said.

“My family had more restrictions than most families even in Williamsburg,” she explained. “Like men were expected to work only in Jewish scholarly jobs, not drive, and I was constantly told that we ought to be role models.”

Now Stein is a second year student at Columbia University’s School of General Studies, where she’s taking courses in political science and gender studies.

Adjusting to a secular scholar’s life wasn’t easy, but she said she’s found comfort in the campus’ strong Jewish community and trans support group.

“Culturally it took me quite a while to blend in, and until [now] there were so many basic references to popular culture that everyone ‘just knows’ and I had no idea what they are talking about,” she said.

Stein is interested in someday working in the nonprofit world, advocating for other transgender people from similar backgrounds and shaping public policy.

She’s currently raising money for her own transition on her blog.

“But my main goal is to raise awareness for trans people within the ultra-Orthodox community,” Stein said.

She added: “It’s been totally ignored until now.”

Will Smith must have sold his soul to the devil.


https://www.yahoo.com/style/jaden-smith-face-louis-vuitton-152428414.html


Jaden Smith is fulfilling his fashion destiny and taking his daring approach to apparel to Louis Vuitton. Will and Jada’s 17-year-old heir has just been announced as the newest face of the fashion house’s Spring/Summer 2016 campaign. In Instagram posts by the brand’s artistic director Nicolas Ghesquière, shots of Smith were premiered. The shoot, snapped by photographer Bruce Weber, features the young actor/rapper in pieces from Louis Vuitton’s women’s collection, debuted at Paris Fashion Week.

Smith’s barrier-breaking sartorial choices have been buzzed about since he was first seen rocking a dress back in April. He has since worn a dress to prom, as well as a Batman costume to Kim Kardashian and Kanye West’s wedding. In an interview with GQ, Smith discussed the motivations behind his fashion choices, marking them as a form of expression.

There's been a lot of rumors about the Smiths for a long time, about their having an "open marriage." Don't know if it's true or not, but if so it could have had an effect on Jaden.

The amount of flabberghausts is unfathomable and just beyond weird.

Don't know if this story was posted yet

Thanks Dude,
Serious topic but I couldn't help noticing that article title sort of suggests that person returning award is transgender.

Lol yes can definitely see that

Basically by bruce jenner changing his name ,he is basically announcing to the world that he is and probably has , put another mans hairy genitals in both his mouth and anus. To me its reprehensible. How disgusting !!!
Can you imagine doing such a thing. Two males being intimate and dressing like a girl. He belongs in a fuckin circus.
How dare espn honor that freak.