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Soldier killed in London!!

Posted By: Yogi Barrabbas

Soldier killed in London!! - 05/22/13 07:16 PM

This is just breaking over here. A soldier in London has been hacked to death and(apparently beheaded) in the street by 2 machete wielding muslims, who were laughing and asking passers by to take photos of them????

Armed police turned up and shot them both dead. Police are treating it as a terrorist attack.

This crap just never ends. It is beyond disgraceful mad
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/22/13 07:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Yogi Barrabbas
This is just breaking over here. A soldier in London has been hacked to death and(apparently beheaded) in the street by 2 machete wielding muslims, who were laughing and asking passers by to take photos of them????

Armed police turned up and shot them both dead. Police are treating it as a terrorist attack.

This crap just never ends. It is beyond disgraceful mad


Complete scumbags mad

Here's an article that features a video of one of the guys holding a machete with bloody hands - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22630303
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/22/13 07:30 PM

Here's a live feed - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22630304
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/22/13 07:33 PM

This is good news at least - The two men shot by police are both still alive and are being held under armed guard in hospitals, the BBC's Nick Robinson reports. Thank god the fuckers didn't die and now can be punished.
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/22/13 07:36 PM

Former Scotland Yard commander of specialist operations, Roy Ramm, tells the BBC News Channel that police will be looking into the background of the two men in custody, trying to establish whether this is part of some kind of organised network or individuals acting alone. I've got a feeling it was just lone nuts but hopefully it's not an organized group.
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/22/13 07:41 PM

Here's a longer video that shows the soldier lying on the street -http://www.itv.com/news/story/2013-05-22/woolwich-police-incident/

Scroll down to see it
Posted By: DE NIRO

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/22/13 07:50 PM

Shocking scenes, but knowing our country they will probely be given a free house while there on bail.. Bring back the death penalty..
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/22/13 07:52 PM

Originally Posted By: DE NIRO
Shocking scenes, but knowing our country they will probely be given a free house while there on bail.. Bring back the death penalty..


What would that achieve? The death penalty is not a deterrent.
Posted By: SC

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/22/13 07:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Yogi Barrabbas
Police are treating it as a terrorist attack.


ABC News here in the States is reporting it to be a terrorist attack. Simply disgusting!!

It's now the lead story on our local news here in the States.
Posted By: Five_Felonies

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/22/13 08:10 PM

Originally Posted By: Camarel
What would that achieve? The death penalty is not a deterrent.

the death penalty should never be looked at as a deterrent, its about justice. people who are crazy enough to commit a capital crime more than likely don't give a shit about the end result anyway. putting aside the cost of keeping people like this locked up (maybe 15 years in the uk if we're lucky), people who commit acts like this have forfeited their own right to live.

as far as the whole "terrorism" thing, lets wait until we get more info, rather than just going on some slogan that was apparently uttered. terrorism has become a favorite buzzword for the media and politicians alike, and has been used for nothing more than the constant erosion of civil liberties as well as justification for foreign intervention. from what it seems so far here, this is not much more than some crazy dopes who have gone mad. makes me sad that citizens in the uk are not allowed the right to defend themselves, and this is yet another example that the government can't protect you..
Posted By: Don Zadjali

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/22/13 08:15 PM

Heinous and disgusting!
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/22/13 08:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Five_Felonies
Originally Posted By: Camarel
What would that achieve? The death penalty is not a deterrent.

the death penalty should never be looked at as a deterrent, its about justice. people who are crazy enough to commit a capital crime more than likely don't give a shit about the end result anyway. putting aside the cost of keeping people like this locked up (maybe 15 years in the uk if we're lucky), people who commit acts like this have forfeited their own right to live.

as far as the whole "terrorism" thing, lets wait until we get more info, rather than just going on some slogan that was apparently uttered. terrorism has become a favorite buzzword for the media and politicians alike, and has been used for nothing more than the constant erosion of civil liberties as well as justification for foreign intervention. from what it seems so far here, this is not much more than some crazy dopes who have gone mad. makes me sad that citizens in the uk are not allowed the right to defend themselves, and this is yet another example that the government can't protect you..


Fair enough i was only responding because i thought Deniro's comment was implying that. They will spend the rest of their lives in prison imo or at the very least 30 years i seriously doubt they'll be out in 15.
Posted By: Mignon

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/22/13 09:10 PM

These bastards need to suffer just like that soldier did then put them to death.
Posted By: The Italian Stallionette

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/22/13 09:45 PM

That is absolutely beyond horrible. mad



TIS
Posted By: DE NIRO

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/22/13 09:50 PM

There would be an up roar in the UK if a white person did this to a muslim..Religion again by the sounds of it..
Posted By: NickyEyes1

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/22/13 09:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Camarel
This is good news at least - The two men shot by police are both still alive and are being held under armed guard in hospitals, the BBC's Nick Robinson reports. Thank god the fuckers didn't die and now can be punished.

That's not good news they desverve to be dead
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/22/13 10:04 PM

Originally Posted By: NickyEyes1
Originally Posted By: Camarel
This is good news at least - The two men shot by police are both still alive and are being held under armed guard in hospitals, the BBC's Nick Robinson reports. Thank god the fuckers didn't die and now can be punished.

That's not good news they desverve to be dead


I don't see them getting killed straight after the attack a good thing, that's clearly what they wanted because they stayed at the scene until the armed police came.
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/22/13 10:07 PM

Originally Posted By: DE NIRO
There would be an up roar in the UK if a white person did this to a muslim..Religion again by the sounds of it..


What exactly do you think would've happened different if it was the other way round?
Posted By: DE NIRO

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/22/13 10:14 PM

Think it's better if i don't get into this as i might get banned for being racist.... All im saying is there would be thousands of muslims on the streets protesting a race crime if this had happend to them..FACT
Posted By: IvyLeague

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/23/13 09:47 AM

Originally Posted By: Camarel
What would that achieve? The death penalty is not a deterrent.


Justice. Look it up.
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/23/13 12:41 PM

Shot machete man's 'soldiers are targets' view shocked caller

Continue reading the main story
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Security services knew Woolwich men
A caller to the BBC's radio station for London listened to one of the men shot by police in Woolwich exhorting people to go to Syria to fight, he says.

The man then told the audience outside a community centre in Plumstead it may not be necessary to go "because their soldiers are here".

Abdullah, who spoke on condition his first name only was used, told BBC London 94.9 he would speak to police.

He told the man his views were contrary to the teachings of Islam.

'Success is closer'
In the interview he said he recognised the man seen on the television with bloodied hands as the same man who addressed their meeting two weeks ago.

He had urged people at the meeting to go to Syria to fight, he said.

He then said 'We may not have to go there because their soldiers are here', said Abdullah, 37.

He had added: "Success is closer than you think."

Abdullah, who would occasionally see the man he knew as Mujahid in Lewisham, said he was so disturbed by what he said on 10 May that he spent a long time arguing with him saying that his views were opposed by Islamic teachings.

He told BBC London: "He said he would blow himself up even if my family was there. He said to me 'It's their government. They wanted them in. They are responsible'."

Abdullah added: "These people are so deluded that even Muslims aren't safe.

"The frightening thing is that there are more of them out there."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-22638908
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/23/13 12:44 PM

According to BBC sources, one of the alleged attackers, Michael Adebolajo, is 28 years old.
He left college in 2001 and one of the subjects he studied at college was Sociology. He comes from a very devout Christian family but converted to Islam after college. Described as bright and witty when he was at college.
Posted By: GerryLang

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/23/13 01:35 PM

The stuff the guy is saying about Syria doesn't make sense. The UK Government and the guy both support the Salafi jihadist in Syria. Yes, despite the blowback, the scores of dead from 9/11 and the bus bombings in London a few years ago the US and UK Government continues to support these Muslim thugs in many of places. They also continue to allow these types of people to continue to immigrate to their lands. The Muslims bare a lot of the responsibility too. Muslims shouldn't be immigrating to the West, Islam and liberal Western democracies are incompatible. It isn't the traditional Muslim world producing these people, it is our liberal Western democracies. These Muslims don't really fit in, so they embrace the most fundamentalist teachings of Islam. You mix these young Muslims with fundamentalist crap on the Internet, and the "woe is me" stuff they learn in their liberal schools you get a combustible mix. So don't write these guys off as some nutters who just "went off" one day. These guys are a product of rotten system, a system that isn't natural, but forced.
Posted By: Yogi Barrabbas

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/23/13 02:56 PM

Both of Nigerian descent and both known to the security services. Prime Minister SlimeBall Cameron says we shouldn't be scared to walk the streets. I see his point of course, but no doubt he has no worries walking down the street, with all his body guards.
Posted By: The Italian Stallionette

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/23/13 03:03 PM

I'm behind and not in the know. I've actually haven't been able to follow the news much & this story much due to a busy few days BUT I saw the interview of the guy holding a bloody meat cleaver? uhwhat OMG Unbelievable.




TIS
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/23/13 03:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Yogi Barrabbas
Both of Nigerian descent and both known to the security services. Prime Minister SlimeBall Cameron says we shouldn't be scared to walk the streets. I see his point of course, but no doubt he has no worries walking down the street, with all his body guards.


Here's an article about the security forces knowledge and also about a brave woman who talked to the attackers and tried to get their weapon from them. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22634468
Posted By: Toodoped

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/23/13 03:12 PM

Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: Camarel
What would that achieve? The death penalty is not a deterrent.


Justice. Look it up.


What fuckin justice?Are you mad?An eye for an eye?!Really?!

Condolences to the family of the soldier and god help the souls of the two men......and yeah,also condolences to the thousands of families that live on the east and r loosin a fam member every fuckin day.Nothing is goin to change.
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/23/13 03:13 PM

Originally Posted By: The Italian Stallionette
I'm behind and not in the know. I've actually haven't been able to follow the news much & this story much due to a busy few days BUT I saw the interview of the guy holding a bloody meat cleaver? uhwhat OMG Unbelievable.




TIS


The weird thing about that is all the people standing around next to a knife wielding maniac seemingly calm not to mention the guy who was videoing standing just feet away.
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/23/13 03:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Toodoped
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: Camarel
What would that achieve? The death penalty is not a deterrent.


Justice. Look it up.


What fuckin justice?Are you mad?An eye for an eye?!Really?!

Condolences to the family of the soldier and god help the souls of the two men......and yeah,also condolences to the thousands of families that live on the east and r loosin a fam member every fuckin day.Nothing is goin to change.


Justice will be dealt they will spend the rest of their lives in prison but lets just leave it there because i dont want to get into a pointless death penalty debate when that's clearly not the issue.
Posted By: The Italian Stallionette

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/23/13 03:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Camarel
Originally Posted By: The Italian Stallionette
I'm behind and not in the know. I've actually haven't been able to follow the news much & this story much due to a busy few days BUT I saw the interview of the guy holding a bloody meat cleaver? uhwhat OMG Unbelievable.




TIS


The weird thing about that is all the people standing around next to a knife wielding maniac seemingly calm not to mention the guy who was videoing standing just feet away.


Exactly! OMG, I would have never spoken to the guy and would have ran. I swear, It looked like something from a slasher horror movie. uhwhat


TIS
Posted By: dontomasso

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/23/13 03:33 PM

This may be the new face of terror -- smaller attacks in seemingly random places by home grown terrorists. While I oppose the death penalty per se, I do not oppose law enforcement and/or the military using deadly force to stop someone in the act of committing terror. I don't think it is a deterrent, and I also thought these crazy jihadists wanted to die to meet their 5,000 virgins or whatever.
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/23/13 05:31 PM

The soldier killed in an attack on a London street has been named as Drummer Lee Rigby of the 2nd Battalion the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers.

Drummer Rigby, 25, from Manchester, leaves behind a two-year-old son.

Two men are under arrest after police shot them near Woolwich Barracks after Wednesday's attack. A man and a woman were arrested on Thursday.

Two of the suspects, believed to include Michael Adebolajo, were known to security services.

The latest arrests were on suspicion of conspiracy to murder in relation to the killing of Drummer Rigby, Scotland Yard said. Both people were aged 29.

The victim's name was announced by the Ministry of Defence pending formal police identification.

"An extremely popular and witty soldier, Drummer Rigby was a larger than life personality within the Corps of Drums and was well known, liked and respected across the Second Fusiliers," the MoD statement said.

"He was a passionate and life-long Manchester United fan."

He had joined the Army in 2006, and is described as a "loving father to his son Jack" and someone who would be "sorely missed by all who knew him".

'Senseless murder'
Drummer Rigby had taken up a post with the Regimental Recruiting Team in London in 2011.

"An experienced and talented side drummer and machine gunner, he was a true warrior and served with distinction in Afghanistan, Germany and Cyprus," said 2nd Fusiliers commanding officer Lt Col Jim Taylor. "His ability, talent and personality made him a natural choice to work in the recruiting group."

Capt Alan Williamson said: "Drummer Rigby or 'Riggers' as he was known within the platoon was a cheeky and humorous man, always there with a joke to brighten the mood."

Defence Secretary Philip Hammond said: "This was a senseless murder of a soldier who has served the Army faithfully in a variety of roles including operational tours in Afghanistan.


Graphic footage from ITV News shows a man with bloodied hands making political statements
"Our thoughts today are with his family and loved ones who are trying to come to terms with this terrible loss."

Speaking earlier outside 10 Downing Street, Prime Minister David Cameron said the attacks were "solely and purely" the responsibility of the individuals involved.

Mr Hammond was asked if the attack showed how vulnerable soldiers were, whether they were in uniform or not.

He replied: "I think it reminds us how vulnerable we all are, but it also reminds us, by the response of the public, that we are not going to be cowed by this kind of terrorist action."

In other developments:

The Metropolitan Police said police officers arrived within nine minutes of the first 999 call and armed officers were there within 14 minutes
An increased police presence will be in Woolwich and the surrounding areas through Thursday night and "as long as needed", Assistant Commissioner for Specialist Crime and Operations Mark Rowley said
Properties in Greenwich and Saxilby, Lincolnshire, have been searched in connection with the attack
With dozens of witnesses to the killing, police are urging them to contact the Met's anti-terrorism hotline with information
Chief of Defence Staff General Sir David Richards said: "It's always a tragedy, it's particularly poignant that it happened on the streets of this capital city of ours.


Michael Adebolajo was filmed at a protest
"We're absolutely determined not to be intimated into not doing the right thing - whether it's here in this country or in Afghanistan or wherever we seek to serve the nation."

Security at Woolwich Barracks and others in London has been increased, and Gen Richards said: "I'm confident that base security is as tight as it's every been, and necessarily so.

"It's a very difficult balancing act. We are very proud of the uniform we wear, we have huge support around the country, this is a completely isolated incident."

Shortly after the killing a man, thought to be 28-year-old Mr Adebolajo, was filmed by a passer-by, saying he carried out the attack because British soldiers killed Muslims every day.

Sources said reports the men had featured in "several investigations" in recent years - but were not deemed to be planning an attack - "were not inaccurate".

According to BBC sources, Mr Adebolajo, a Briton of Nigerian descent, comes from a devout Christian family but took up Islam after leaving college in 2001.

Continue reading the main story

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22644857
Posted By: ronnierocketAGO

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/23/13 06:51 PM

Incidents like this the Left need to condemn as hardcore as possible because these assholes behind this monstrosity are right wingers, religious extremists who apparently tolerate living in a western cosmopolitan society. Remember the UK Parliament are debating legalizing same-sex marriage. Maybe the idea of gay people being happy set these lunatics off?

But of course the UK Left won't, out of some misguided sense of being PC or worse not wanting to help fringe crazies like the UKIP. Which is stupid. Avoiding taking upon this cause just gives the UKIP and that ilk the chance to own the conversation, and air out their racist, paranoid nonsense which really misses the absolute cause of this murder.
Posted By: MaryCas

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/23/13 11:45 PM

My apologies for not reading all the news reports, but where are the muslim clerics denouncing these acts? Unless my feeble mind is missing something, I don't recall Christians doing anything like this. In the name of Allah....muslim claims to be a peaceful religion. I'm waiting.
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/24/13 12:07 AM

Originally Posted By: MaryCas
My apologies for not reading all the news reports, but where are the muslim clerics denouncing these acts? Unless my feeble mind is missing something, I don't recall Christians doing anything like this. In the name of Allah....muslim claims to be a peaceful religion. I'm waiting.


Farouk Murad, spokesman for the Muslim Council of Britain, says the attack is "an insult and attack against our faith and our community", adding: "We must stand united against this kind of criminal activity... Islam does not under any pretext give the licence to kill innocents on our streets.

Julie Siddiqi, of the Islamic Society of Britain, tells BBC Radio 4: "The people who did this act yesterday do not speak in my name, do not speak for my community or the rest of the country. We have to come out with the strongest condemnation, which is what I'm seeing this morning."

The Greenwich Islamic Centre condemns Wednesday's "barbaric murder": "The Muslims of the Greenwich Islamic Centre in the Royal Borough of Greenwich... share the grief and sorrow of the nation. Our hearts go out to the family, colleagues and friends of the victim of this despicable and horrific tragedy."

The Greenwich Islamic Centre adds: "The local Muslim community has always enjoyed an excellent relationship with the people from all walks of life regardless of their religion, colour or ethnic background. At this moment of confusion, uncertainty and naturally highly charged emotions, we earnestly appeal to the media not to rush to judgement and wait for the final findings by the law enforcement agencies."

Mrs Azeem in Peterborough emails: This attack is barbaric totally against what the Koran and our prophet teaches us. Islam is about peace. It teaches us love and respect for every being. No true Muslim could behave in such a manner. It also causes tensions between communities. I just pray we can learn to accept people of all faiths and communitie
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/24/13 12:08 AM

Rise in anti-Muslim attacks after Woolwich soldier killing

By Catrin Nye
BBC Asian Network

A small group of English Defence league supporters gathered in Woolwich on Wednesday night
Continue reading the main story
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As a small group of supporters of the English Defence League gathered at the scene of the brutal killing of a soldier in Woolwich, they marked a wider pattern of anti-Muslim feeling across the UK, according to monitoring groups.

The EDL grouped at Woolwich Arsenal station near the scene of the murder on Wednesday and pelted police with bottles.

Their leader, Tommy Robinson, stated: "They're chopping our soldiers' heads off. This is Islam. That's what we've seen today.

"They've cut off one of our Army's heads off on the streets of London."

Two mosques were attacked in the aftermath of the killing, one in Essex, the other in Gillingham in Kent with events there unfolding live on Twitter.

'Smashing things'
Police were at the mosque just after 21:00 BST on Wednesday and a local Muslim shop owner tweeted: "They broke the book case and some other windows.

"Guy ran in and started smashing things."

Continue reading the main story

Start Quote

It seems that groups like the EDL have capitalised on this incident quite well both at a street level on with online support”

Fiyaz Mughal
Director of Faith Matters
He added: "However bad the backlash is, it's nothing compared to what the prophets went through. Stand firm and patient - Allah is with us."

A spokesman for Kent police said a man was in custody on suspicion of racially-aggravated criminal damage.

Essex Police are questioning a 43-year-old man arrested outside the Islamic Centre in Braintree on suspicion of possessing an offensive weapon and attempted arson.

He was detained after officers were called to reports of a man, armed with a knife, in Silks Way.

No-one was injured but Essex Police have increased patrols as a result.

Conservative MP for Braintree, Brooks Newmark, has met leaders at the mosque and said he was stunned by developments.

'Anti-Muslim hatred'
He said: "I was shocked to see that in Braintree, a relatively small market town, with a very small Muslim community who are fairly well integrated into our community, that this would happen.

"The mosque is in a converted house and doesn't even look like a traditional mosque."

Tell Mama (Measuring Anti-Muslim Attacks), a London based group that monitors anti-Muslim hatred, spent the evening logging any incidents of Islamaphobia that occurred in reaction to events in Woolwich.

It documented 38 reports of anti-Muslim incidents - most of them online and eight at a street level.

By comparison, in its first year of operation (to March 2013) Tell Mama recorded 632 incidents in total, averaging at about 12 a week.


Fiyaz Mughal of Faith Matters says he has had direct threats
Tell Mama said the latest incidents involved, at their worst, threats to kill but largely low-level abuse - spitting, negative comments about Muslims and one incident in which a woman was threatened with violence.

It also said on top of the recorded attacks on mosques there were five further threats to attack religious buildings.

Fiyaz Mughal, director of Faith Matters, which runs Tell-Mama, told BBC Asian Network that his address had been posted directly to Twitter and users had been invited to shoot him.

He said the organisation expected to be dealing with more hatred over the coming days.

He said: "I think we are going to see a growth of activity over the next few days, we are already seeing activity online from people who we thought were no longer a problem.

"It seems that groups like the EDL have capitalised on this incident quite well, both at a street level on with online support."

'Just delusional'
He added that his organisation was contacting police and mosques ahead of Friday prayers.

He added: "We are concerned with Friday coming up because of the sheer numbers who will be going to the mosque - we are asking police to monitor prayers to make sure everything can pass smoothly and we are just hoping for no more flash demos."

In Woolwich local British Muslim Murad Rasul, 30, told BBC Asian Network he was concerned about any backlash because relations had always been good in the area.

He said: "I've been born and raised in this area of Woolwich and the Army barracks have been a part of the Greenwich borough forever.

"There has never been any animosity between any members of the Muslim community and the Army."

Mr Rasul said, for him, the men who carried out the attack were not representing Islam or Muslims.

"Anybody could carry out this act and shout 'Allahu Akbar' - they're just words.

"You can't kill an innocent person and try and justify it with religion - they're just delusional."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-22636991
Posted By: Capo de La Cosa Nostra

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/24/13 01:24 AM

Originally Posted By: DE NIRO
Shocking scenes, but knowing our country they will probely be given a free house while there on bail.. Bring back the death penalty..
BRING BACK GRAMMAR AND SPELLING IN SCHOOLS!
Posted By: Capo de La Cosa Nostra

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/24/13 01:26 AM

Originally Posted By: DE NIRO
There would be an up roar in the UK if a white person did this to a muslim..Religion again by the sounds of it..
That's a pretty stupid thing to say, frankly. I understand the anger and confusion and fear, but why are you separating "white person" from "muslim"?

Careful, sonny, you're sounding like a thick bigot who doesn't know his arse from his face.
Posted By: Capo de La Cosa Nostra

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/24/13 01:31 AM

Originally Posted By: MaryCas
My apologies for not reading all the news reports, but where are the muslim clerics denouncing these acts? Unless my feeble mind is missing something, I don't recall Christians doing anything like this. In the name of Allah....muslim claims to be a peaceful religion. I'm waiting.
Haven't you read any history? You "don't recall"?

What a very stupid and ignorant thing to say.
Posted By: Capo de La Cosa Nostra

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/24/13 01:41 AM

"In the last analysis terrorism is an idea generated by capitalism to justify better defense measures to safeguard capitalism." - Rainer Werner Fassbinder

I cringed when the first news reports mentioned very early on yesterday that the victim was wearing a Help the Heroes t-shirt. And I was appalled when the BBC's Nick Robinson referred to the suspects as being "of Muslim appearance". Eh?!

Everyone should read this: "Death by the Barracks", by Richard Seymour, who analyses the dialectical relationship between ongoing governmental policies and the English Defence League's own political objectives. Some quotations from the article:

"The consequence of over a decade of syncopated Islam-baiting has been a pronounced political turn to the Right, especially on questions of immigration, nationality and 'race'. Coterminously, 'Britishness' has increasingly been merged with militarism. The ultimate test of one's integration, one's loyalty to 'British values', is to fight for said values. The ultimate proof of one's betrayal is to insult the soldiers who defend them. One can be against war, on the ground that it is too much benevolence for an undeserving mob, but one can't denounce the troops themselves. The case of Azhar Ahmed, whose sole offence was to castigate British soldiers on Facebook, indicates the potential costs of doing so, particularly for a Muslim. It also illustrates the centrality of the state to the development and implementation of these ideologies."

"Cameron was briefly magnanimous enough to say, yesterday, that the attack was not the fault of Islam but of the individuals alone. The Muslim Council of Britain and the Ramadhan Foundation corroborated this exoneration of the faith with their strenuous denunciations of the killing. But they will know very well that such corroboration implied that the exoneration was needed. They will also know that in his speech Cameron also referred to the problem as one of 'extremism', and it is this which he charges ordinary Muslims with tolerating or harbouring. They will know that Cameron's government will hold Muslims and Muslim organisations answerable for this, irrespective of diplomatic statements made in the heat of the moment. Their every statement can now be combed for potentially disloyal nuance. Police searches, internment, a few more Forest Gates - all this is possible until the government is satisified with the degree of cooperation it is receiving."

"And it is because of the dominant role of the British state, and in the context of that state's action, that a right-wing 'counter-jihadist' politics of street mobilisations and violence has developed."

In other words, those angry, confused many who have for too long been disillusioned with and continually failed by their government (in fact, an entire political system), who are now misplacing their energy and time to a racist political group (the EDL) are doing so under the false assumption that their own objectives are entirely different from the government's.

But big business and fascism are bedpals through and through.

I'm fearful, in all honesty, because I know how rapidly things can escalate when irrationality and confusion are the driving forces behind a group of people desperate for purpose and direction.

But I think we should also fight fear, and the bigotry with which it manifests itself.
Posted By: GerryLang

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/24/13 11:12 AM

Originally Posted By: ronnierocketAGO
Incidents like this the Left need to condemn as hardcore as possible because these assholes behind this monstrosity are right wingers, religious extremists who apparently tolerate living in a western cosmopolitan society. Remember the UK Parliament are debating legalizing same-sex marriage. Maybe the idea of gay people being happy set these lunatics off?

But of course the UK Left won't, out of some misguided sense of being PC or worse not wanting to help fringe crazies like the UKIP. Which is stupid. Avoiding taking upon this cause just gives the UKIP and that ilk the chance to own the conversation, and air out their racist, paranoid nonsense which really misses the absolute cause of this murder.



You're wrong as shit homey, these guys are a product of the Western liberal system. They just didn't get off the boat from some backwards village in Pakistan or Somalia, they were reared in the West. The same with the Tsarnayev brothers, they weren't from war torn Chechnya, but the liberal college towns in Mssachussets. Their degenerate liberal surrondings cause them to seek out the most fundamentalist aspects of Islam. The Muslims still have their responsibilities not to immigrate to these countries though, I mean they are going out of their way, spending thousands of dollars to immigrate from Muslim countries to non Muslim countries that are against the teachings of Islam.
Posted By: 123JoeSchmo

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/24/13 11:50 AM

^and we've heard from the extreme right nonsense peanut gallery. Somebody else wanna talk?
Posted By: MaryCas

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/24/13 12:08 PM

Originally Posted By: Capo de La Cosa Nostra
Originally Posted By: MaryCas
My apologies for not reading all the news reports, but where are the muslim clerics denouncing these acts? Unless my feeble mind is missing something, I don't recall Christians doing anything like this. In the name of Allah....muslim claims to be a peaceful religion. I'm waiting.
Haven't you read any history? You "don't recall"?

What a very stupid and ignorant thing to say.


Thank you. I shouldn't respond to these things under the influence of alcohol.
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/24/13 12:20 PM

Here's a link to video that contains some information on the killers backgrounds - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22651303
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/24/13 12:23 PM

Here's a link that's contrary to the comments i posted yesterday
of muslims condemning the attack

Radical Islamist preacher Anjem Choudary has said he was "shocked" by the murder of a soldier in Woolwich, but has refused to condemn the attack.

Drummer Lee Rigby was killed in broad daylight on Wednesday by two men, who were subsequently shot by police. The suspects, now known to be Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale, were known to security services.

Mr Choudary told the BBC's Newsnight programme that he encountered Adebolajo at a number of Islamist demonstrations.

"When I saw what took place I was shocked... but what he said in the clip, I think not many Muslims can disagree with," he added.

Mr Choudary was participating in a Newsnight discussion on the attack with Shams Adduha Muhammad, imam and director of Ebrahim College, and Julie Siddiqui, executive director of the Islamic Society of Britain. Newsnight's presenter Kirsty Wark chaired the discussion.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22650053
Posted By: GerryLang

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/24/13 01:13 PM

Originally Posted By: 123JoeSchmo
^and we've heard from the extreme right nonsense peanut gallery. Somebody else wanna talk?


We've been through this before with you, no adult commentary, just childish little insluts. The guys in London didn't drive over from Heathrow after their plane ride from Karachi. They found their ideology and it was nurtured in Britain, just like the Tsarnayev Brothers in Massachussets. The more degenerate the West becomes the more young Muslims in the West are going to embrace fundamental Islam. The liberal turds behind multiculturalism thought these Muslims would stop taking their religion serious and assimilate into the wider liberal society, but that ain't gonna happen buddy, we are going to see more and more of this stuff in the future. Guys like you can keep the blinders on though, and call everyone who doesn't agree with your crap a "lunatic," a "nutter," etc.
Posted By: klydon1

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/24/13 02:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Capo de La Cosa Nostra
I'm fearful, in all honesty, because I know how rapidly things can escalate when irrationality and confusion are the driving forces behind a group of people desperate for purpose and direction.

But I think we should also fight fear, and the bigotry with which it manifests itself.


Very true. There's a lot of horror in this world, and we can't defeat it if we're shackled by fear, bigotry and ignorance.

I feel very sorry for this gentleman's family, who have to deal with the painful senselessness of his loss of life.
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/24/13 04:07 PM

Clegg quotes Koran to condemn attack - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22655020
Posted By: IvyLeague

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/24/13 07:20 PM

You listen to this guy ranting and his argument of the West killing Muslims crumbles for a few reasons.

First, the Brits, U.S., etc. are in Afghanistan because A) that's where Al-Qaeda and the Taliban were based, and B) to protect Muslims from other Muslims.

Second, right now, Muslims are killing other Muslims in far greater numbers then those being killed by Western "infidels." See Syria, for example.

Third, he mentions "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth." But when have any Western soldiers ever stabbed and attempted to cut off the head of a Muslim?

This guy doesn't care about his fellow Muslims. Just spreading Islamism.
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/24/13 07:29 PM

Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
You listen to this guy ranting and his argument of the West killing Muslims crumbles for a few reasons.

First, the Brits, U.S., etc. are in Afghanistan because A) that's where Al-Qaeda and the Taliban were based, and B) to protect Muslims from other Muslims.

Second, right now, Muslims are killing other Muslims in far greater numbers then those being killed by Western "infidels." See Syria, for example.

Third, he mentions "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth." But when have any Western soldiers ever stabbed and attempted to cut off the head of a Muslim?

This guy doesn't care about his fellow Muslims. Just spreading Islamism.


+1 Especially for the bolded part.
Posted By: 123JoeSchmo

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/24/13 07:56 PM

Originally Posted By: GerryLang
Originally Posted By: 123JoeSchmo
^and we've heard from the extreme right nonsense peanut gallery. Somebody else wanna talk?


We've been through this before with you, no adult commentary, just childish little insluts. The guys in London didn't drive over from Heathrow after their plane ride from Karachi. They found their ideology and it was nurtured in Britain, just like the Tsarnayev Brothers in Massachussets. The more degenerate the West becomes the more young Muslims in the West are going to embrace fundamental Islam. The liberal turds behind multiculturalism thought these Muslims would stop taking their religion serious and assimilate into the wider liberal society, but that ain't gonna happen buddy, we are going to see more and more of this stuff in the future. Guys like you can keep the blinders on though, and call everyone who doesn't agree with your crap a "lunatic," a "nutter," etc.


If you seriously think Muslims are blowing things up due to "liberalism" in the west you're out of your mind.
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/24/13 08:20 PM

A few developments from today -

A statement of condemnation of the murder by the Greenwich Islamic Centre is displayed on its door. It says the centre shares in the "grief and sorrow of the nation".

The Metropolitan Police say a 29-year-old woman and a 31-year-old woman arrested as part of the murder investigation have been released without charge. A 29-year-old man arrested on suspicion of conspiracy to murder remains in custody.

The Metropolitan Police say searches are ongoing at six residential addresses - three in south London, one in east London, one in north London and one in Lincolnshire.

Murder suspects Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale remain in hospital in a stable condition.

After Friday prayers, Swaleh Ahmed, the imam of Woolwich Mosque, tells reporters his heart "goes out to the family, colleagues and friends of the victim of this despicable and horrific tragedy".

Paul Ramsamy, a neighbour of Michael Adebowale, says he feels lucky he wasn't attacked when he met Mr Adebowale and Michael Adebolajo while he happened to be wearing military style clothing and boots.

One man is in custody after being arrested by Lincolnshire Police following an investigation into messages sent on social media following the death of soldier Drummer Rigby. Officers are continuing to search a house in Saxilby in Lincolnshire in connection with their inquiries.

Police have carried out a full search of this flat in Greenwich, which is registered in the name of Michael Adebowale.

The Metropolitan Police said two women arrested as part of the murder investigation had been released without charge, but a 29-year-old man arrested on suspicion of conspiracy to murder remains in custody.
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/25/13 07:21 PM

Woolwich murder sparks anti-Muslim backlash

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22664835
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/26/13 06:51 PM

Here's a video of the attackers charging at police then being shot - http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/woolwich-attack-video-watch-full-1908975
Posted By: IvyLeague

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/28/13 04:11 AM

Originally Posted By: 123JoeSchmo
If you seriously think Muslims are blowing things up due to "liberalism" in the west you're out of your mind.


The liberalism of Western Europe, and increasingly of the U.S., certainly makes it easier for these radical Islamists to flourish.

Originally Posted By: Camarel
Here's a video of the attackers charging at police then being shot - http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/woolwich-attack-video-watch-full-1908975


Those police should have done everybody a favor and put two in their heads after they were down.
Posted By: 123JoeSchmo

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/28/13 04:18 AM

Does that mean we should appeal to Muslims who would enslave women, rule under Islamic law and blow up anything that doesn't agree with them? Hell no. You make them understand the US and Europe ain't changing the way they do things, they try any attacks they get pulverized with a missile
Posted By: IvyLeague

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/28/13 04:26 AM

Originally Posted By: 123JoeSchmo
Does that mean we should appeal to Muslims who would enslave women, rule under Islamic law and blow up anything that doesn't agree with them? Hell no. You make them understand the US and Europe ain't changing the way they do things, they try any attacks they get pulverized with a missile


Not at all. I'm all for pounding them all into the dust. Of course, the libs of the West are just as bad as the radical Islamists; just on the other end of the spectrum. And the irony is, the radical Islamists exploit the naivete and multi-culturalism of Western libs to their advantage.
Posted By: 123JoeSchmo

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/28/13 05:05 AM

Western civilization is centuries ahead of that of Arab nations. I don't think you can call that extreme liberalism, it's basic right and wrong
Posted By: IvyLeague

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/28/13 05:17 AM

Originally Posted By: 123JoeSchmo
Western civilization is centuries ahead of that of Arab nations. I don't think you can call that extreme liberalism, it's basic right and wrong


In many ways, yes, but ironically enough, the one thing Muslims are right about are the excesses and increasing moral bankruptcy and secularism of Western civilizations. Of course, what the Islamists would do about it is all wrong, and ultimately trade one evil for another.
Posted By: Danito

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/28/13 09:16 AM

Original geschrieben von: IvyLeague
Of course, the libs of the West are just as bad as the radical Islamists.


I think you should take this back and apologize to the liberals here.
Posted By: IvyLeague

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/29/13 02:07 AM

Originally Posted By: Danito
I think you should take this back and apologize to the liberals here.


Why? Are what these Islamic extremists nutjobs do any worse than liberal-championed abortion, which has claimed tens of millions of lives since it was legalized?
Posted By: Toodoped

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/29/13 08:25 AM

Liberals....muslims....aliens....but in the end



lol shhh
Posted By: Danito

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/29/13 12:04 PM

Original geschrieben von: IvyLeague
Original geschrieben von: Danito
I think you should take this back and apologize to the liberals here.


Why? Are what these Islamic extremists nutjobs do any worse than liberal-championed abortion, which has claimed tens of millions of lives since it was legalized?


I think we should still keep up some respect here in this forum. Even though I despised the politics of guys like Rumsfeld, Bush, Cheney, and I even think that they are responsible of war crimes, I'd never compare any of their supporters here with islamists.
In any way, I don't think any discussion is gaining substance from name calling.
(I will not answer to the abortion topic, because I don't want to open a new discussion in this thread.)
Posted By: Sicilian Babe

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/29/13 12:45 PM

Danito, We all could use a lesson in civility now and again, but there are certain topics that bring out the worst in people, or at least certain people. Respect would be nice, wouldn't it?
Posted By: XDCX

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/30/13 06:14 PM

Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: Danito
I think you should take this back and apologize to the liberals here.


Why? Are what these Islamic extremists nutjobs do any worse than liberal-championed abortion, which has claimed tens of millions of lives since it was legalized?


Comparing liberals to radical Muslims is probably the stupidest, most ignorant things I have ever seen you post, and that is saying something. Are you suggesting that a mother who has zero chance of surviving giving birth to a child should just have the child anyway? Or what if there is a near certainty that the cold is going to be born with a life threatening affliction that will cause it unimaginable pain, and which may probably end up killing it anyway? You can't see why a mother wouldn't want to bring a child into this world with such a condition? Because I personally know someone who had to make such a decision, and let me tell you, it was the hardest choice she every had to make. Her child was going to be born with many of it's internal organs on the outside of it's body. If taken to full term, the baby had a less than 25 percent chance of surviving, and the mother had a less than 50 percent chance of surviving. So until you've walked a mile in the shoes of someone who has had to make such a decision, I suggest keeping your ignorant fucking mouth shut.
Posted By: IvyLeague

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/30/13 06:30 PM

Originally Posted By: XDCX
Comparing liberals to radical Muslims is probably the stupidest, most ignorant things I have ever seen you post, and that is saying something. Are you suggesting that a mother who has zero chance of surviving giving birth to a child should just have the child anyway? Or what if there is a near certainty that the cold is going to be born with a life threatening affliction that will cause it unimaginable pain, and which may probably end up killing it anyway? You can't see why a mother wouldn't want to bring a child into this world with such a condition? Because I personally know someone who had to make such a decision, and let me tell you, it was the hardest choice she every had to make. Her child was going to be born with many of it's internal organs on the outside of it's body. If taken to full term, the baby had a less than 25 percent chance of surviving, and the mother had a less than 50 percent chance of surviving. So until you've walked a mile in the shoes of someone who has had to make such a decision, I suggest keeping your ignorant fucking mouth shut.


I've said many times that exceptions can be made in the extremely rare instances of rape, incest, where the mother's life is in danger, or the child can't survive outside the womb. I'm talking about the vast majority of abortions that are for nothing more than selfish convenience. You and other libs know this is the case but, of course, you'll always bring up the very small percentage of abortions related to those rare instances above. rolleyes
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/30/13 06:37 PM

One of the killers has appeared in court - http://news.sky.com/story/1097277/woolwich-murder-suspect-appears-in-court
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/30/13 06:39 PM

Why is abortion getting discussed on a thread about the murder of a British soldier? confused
Posted By: XDCX

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/30/13 06:51 PM

Originally Posted By: Camarel
Why is abortion getting discussed on a thread about the murder of a British soldier? confused


Threads tend to digress every once in a while, that's just the nature of the general discussion forum. Back on topic now!
Posted By: GerryLang

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 05/31/13 11:51 AM

Originally Posted By: 123JoeSchmo
Originally Posted By: GerryLang
Originally Posted By: 123JoeSchmo
^and we've heard from the extreme right nonsense peanut gallery. Somebody else wanna talk?


We've been through this before with you, no adult commentary, just childish little insluts. The guys in London didn't drive over from Heathrow after their plane ride from Karachi. They found their ideology and it was nurtured in Britain, just like the Tsarnayev Brothers in Massachussets. The more degenerate the West becomes the more young Muslims in the West are going to embrace fundamental Islam. The liberal turds behind multiculturalism thought these Muslims would stop taking their religion serious and assimilate into the wider liberal society, but that ain't gonna happen buddy, we are going to see more and more of this stuff in the future. Guys like you can keep the blinders on though, and call everyone who doesn't agree with your crap a "lunatic," a "nutter," etc.


If you seriously think Muslims are blowing things up due to "liberalism" in the west you're out of your mind.


You dont have a clue of what you're talking about. Western liberalisn is a big factor in why Western Muslims become terrorist, it is the incubator. Tamerlan Tsarnayev became a terrorist while living in the liberal college towns of greater Boston. That is where he became alienated, as he said " I have no American friends, I don't understand them." He couldn't connect with them and their liberal lifestyle, and multiculturalism didn't work. I feel sorry for todays youth, they have no community. I'm in my early 30's, not an old guy, and I've seen things change a lot in my life time. I had it great growing up, me and my friends had things in common that made us extremly close. None of our mothers wore a burqa, none of our friends had a halal or Glatt kosher kitchen, none followed a religion where animals were sacrificed in front of the house, or it was unlucky to see the number 13 or have a female child, etc.

It is a shame and extremly dangerous most people, including are leaders aren't very deep thinkers. They want easy and simple answers. like blaming guns or poverty. They blame guns for school shootings! The morons don't realize that America has been awash with guns for over a century. but school shootings are a modern phenomenon. They weren't happening in the 40's, 50's, and 60's. They started to happen when the country became liberalized, and kids were screwed up, families and communtites were destroyed....
Posted By: afsaneh77

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 06/01/13 07:39 AM

Originally Posted By: GerryLang
... school shootings are a modern phenomenon. They weren't happening in the 40's, 50's, and 60's. They started to happen when the country became liberalized, and kids were screwed up, families and communtites were destroyed....


Sure, except for this long list of shootings that has happened during 40's, 50's, 60's.

Quote:

1940s

(U.S. Population: 132M-151M)

May 6, 1940: South Pasadena, California, After being removed as principal of South Pasadena Junior High School, Vieling Spencer shot six school officials, killing five, before attempting to commit suicide by shooting himself in the neck.[80][81]
May 23, 1940: New York City, New York, Infuriated by a grievance, Matthew Gillespie, 62-year-old janitor at the Dwight School for Girls, shot and critically wounded Mrs. Marshall Coxe, secretary of the junior school.[82]
July 4, 1940: Valhalla, New York, Angered by the refusal of his daughter, Melba, 15, to leave a boarding school and return to his home, Joseph Moshell, 47, visited the school and shot and killed the girl.[83]
September 12, 1940: Uniontown, Pennsylvania, 29-year-old teacher Carolyn Dellamea is shot to death inside her third grade classroom by 35-year-old William Kuhns. Kuhns then shot himself in the chest in a failed suicide attempt. Kuhns had reportedly been courting Dellamea for over a year but the relationship was ended when Dellamea discovered that Kuhns was already married.[84][85]
October 2, 1942: New York City, New York, Irwin Goodman, 36-year-old mathematics teacher at William J. Gaynor Junior High School, was shot and killed in the school corridor by a youth.[86][87]
February 23, 1943: Port Chester, New York, Harry Wyman, 13, shot himself dead at the Harvey School, a boys’ preparatory school.[88]
June 26, 1946: Brooklyn, New York, A 15-year-old schoolboy who balked at turning over his pocket money to a gang of seven youths was shot in the chest in the basement of the Public School 147 annex of the Brooklyn High School for Automotive Trades.[89]
November 24, 1946: New York City, A 13-year-old student at St. Benedict’s Parochial School, shot and fatally wounded himself while sitting in an audience watching a school play.[90]
February 5, 1947: Madill, Oklahoma, 1st grade teacher Jessie Laird, 40, was shot to death in her classroom, during recess by her estranged husband, Ellis Laird, 62. Laird then fatally shot himself.[91]
December 1, 1947: Bala Cynwyd, Pennsylvania, Donald Peabody Sargent, 14, shot himself to death in his junior high school classroom.[92]
December 24, 1948: New York City, New York, A 14-year-old boy was fatally wounded by a shot from the .22-caliber rifle of a fellow student Robert Ross, 17. The youth was accidentally shot in the head when he chanced into range where Ross was target shooting near a lake on the school property.[93]
March 11, 1949: New York City, New York, A 16-year-old student at Stuyvesant High School was accidentally shot in the arm by a fellow student who was ‘showing off’ with a pistol in a classroom.[94]
November 13, 1949: Columbus, Ohio, Ohio State University freshman James Heer grabbed a .45 caliber handgun from the room of a Delta Tau Delta fraternity brother and shot and killed his fraternity brother Jack McKeown, 21, an Ohio State senior.[95]


1950s

(U.S. Population: 151M-179M)

April 25, 1950: Peru, Nebraska, Dr. William Nicholas, 48, president of Peru State College and Dr. Paul Maxwell, 56, education department head, were shot to death at their desks by Dr. Barney Baker, 54-year-old psychology professor. Baker was found dead of a self-inflicted gunshot at his home on campus.[96]
July 22, 1950: New York City, New York, A 16-year-old boy was shot in the wrist and abdomen at the Public School 141 dance during an argument with a former classmate.[97]
March 12, 1951: Union Mills, North Carolina, Professor W. E. Sweatt, superintendent and teacher at the Alexander School, was shot to death by students Billy Ray Powell, 16, and Hugh Justice, 19. The assailants had been reprimanded by Sweatt, and they waited for him as he locked his office door.[98]
June 4, 1951: New York City, New York, Carl Arch, a 50-year-old intruder to a girl's gym class, was shot and killed by a police officer at Manhattan's Central Commercial High School.[99]
November 27, 1951: New York City, New York, David Brooks, a 15-year-old student, was fatally shot as fellow pupils looked on in a grade school.[100]
April 9, 1952: New York City, New York, A 15-year-old boarding school student shot a dean rather than relinquish pin-up pictures of girls in bathing suits.[101]
July 14, 1952: New York City, New York, Bayard Peakes walked into the offices of the American Physical Society (APS) at Columbia University and shot and killed secretary Eileen Fahey with a .22 caliber pistol. Peakes was reportedly upset that the APS had rejected a pamphlet he had written.[102]
September 3, 1952: Lawrenceville, Illinois, After Georgine Lyon, 25, ended her engagement with Charles Petrach, Petrach shot and killed Lyon in a classroom at Lawrenceville High School where she worked as a librarian.[103]
November 20, 1952: New York City, New York, Rear Admiral E. E. Herrmann, 56, superintendent of the Naval Postgraduate School, was found dead in his office with a bullet in his head. A service revolver was found by his side.[104]
October 2, 1953: Chicago, Illinois, Patrick Colletta, 14, was shot to death by Bernice Turner,14, in a classroom of Kelly High School. It was reported that after Turner refused to date Colletta he handed her the gun and dared her to pull the trigger, telling her that the gun was “only a toy.” A coroner’s jury later ruled that the shooting was an accident.[105]
October 8, 1953: New York City, New York, Larry Licitra, 17-year-old student at the Machine and Metal Trades High School, was shot and slightly wounded in the right shoulder in the lobby of the school while inspecting a handmade pistol owned by one of several students.[106]
March 31, 1954: Newton, Massachusetts, John Frankenberger, 14, was accidentally shot to death in a classroom at Day Junior High School when a pistol being held by a classmate discharged.[107]
May 15, 1954: Chapel Hill, North Carolina, Putnam Davis Jr. was shot and killed during a fraternity house carnival at the Phi Delta Theta house at the University of North Carolina. William Joyner and Allen Long were shot and wounded during the exchange of gunfire in their fraternity bedroom. The incident took place after an all-night beer party. Mr. Long reported to the police that, while the three were drinking beer at 7 a.m., Davis pulled out a gun and started shooting with a gun he had obtained from the car of a former roommate.[108]
January 11, 1955: Swarthmore, Pennsylvania, After some of his dormmates urinated on his mattress, Bob Bechtel, a 20-year-old student at Swarthmore College, returned to his dorm with a shotgun and used it to shoot and kill fellow student Holmes Strozier.[109]
May 4, 1956: Prince George's County, Maryland, 15-year-old student Billy Prevatte fatally shot one teacher and injured two others at Maryland Park Junior High School after he had been reprimanded from the school.[110]
October 20, 1956: New York City, New York, A Booker T. Washington Junior High School student was wounded in the forearm by another student armed with a home-made weapon.[111]
October 2, 1957: New York City, New York, A 16-year old student was shot in the leg by a 15-year old classmate at a city high school.[112]
March 4, 1958: New York City, New York, A 17-year-old student shot a boy in the Manual Training High School.[113]
May 1, 1958: Massapequa, New York, A 15-year-old high Massapequa High School freshman was shot and killed by a classmate in a washroom.[114]
September 24, 1959: New York City, New York, Twenty-seven men and boys and an arsenal were seized in the Bronx as the police headed off a gang war resulting from the fatal shooting of a teenager at Morris High School.[115]

1960s

(U.S. Population: 179M-203M)

February 2, 1960: Hartford City, Indiana, Principal Leonard Redden shot and killed two teachers with a shotgun at William Reed Elementary School before fleeing into a remote forest, where he committed suicide.[116]
March 30, 1960: Alice, Texas, Donna Dvorak, 14, brought a .22 target pistol to Dubose Junior High School, and fatally shot Bobby Whitford, 15, in their 9th grade science class. Dvorak believed Whitford posed a threat to one of her girlfriends.[117]
June 7, 1960: Blaine, Minnesota, Lester Betts, a 40-year-old mail-carrier, walked into the office of 33-year-old principal Carson Hammond and shot him to death with a 12-gauge shotgun.[118]
January 4, 1961: Delmont, South Dakota, Donald Kurtz, 17-year-old senior at Delmont High School, was fatally wounded by a .22 caliber bullet from a rifle. The shot, intended as a sound effect for a school play, hit him in the chest during a rehearsal just minutes before the play was to take place.[119]
October 17, 1961: Denver, Colorado, Tennyson Beard, 14, got into an argument with William Hachmeister, 15, at Morey Junior High School. During the argument Beard pulled out a .38 caliber revolver and shot at Hachmeister, wounding him. A stray bullet also struck Deborah Faith Humphrey, 14, who died from her gunshot wound.[120]
August 1, 1966: Charles Whitman age 25, climbed atop the observation deck at the University of Texas-Austin, and killed 17 people and wounded 31 during a 96-minute shooting rampage in the University of Texas massacre.[121]
October 5, 1966: Grand Rapids, Minnesota, Grand Rapids High School student David Black, 15, killed school administrator Forrest Willey and seriously wounded fellow student Kevin Roth, 14.[122][123]
November 12, 1966: Mesa, Arizona, Bob Smith, 18, took seven people hostage at Rose-Mar College of Beauty. Smith ordered the hostages to lie down on the floor in a circle. He then proceeded to shoot them in the head with a 22-caliber pistol. Four women and a three-year-old girl died, one woman and a baby were injured but survived. Police arrested Smith after the massacre. Smith had reportedly admired Richard Speck and Charles Whitman.[124]
January 24, 1968: High Point, North Carolina, David Walker, 15, was shot to death just outside Central High School by Gerald Locklear, 15.
January 30, 1968: Miami, Florida, 16-year-old Blanche Ward shot and killed fellow student Linda Lipscomb, 16, with a .22-caliber pistol at Miami Jackson High School. According to Ward, she was threatened with a razor by Lipscomb during an argument over a fountain pen, and in the ensuing struggle the gun went off.[125]
February 8, 1968: Orangeburg, South Carolina, In the days leading up to February 8, 1968, about 200 mostly student protesters gathered on the campus of South Carolina State University, located in the city of Orangeburg, to protest the segregation of the All Star Bowling Lane. The bowling alley was owned by the late Harry K. Floyd. That night, students started a bonfire. As police attempted to put out the fire, an officer was injured by a thrown piece of banister. The police said they believed they were under attack by small weapons fire. The officers fired into the crowd, killing three young men: Samuel Hammond, Delano Middleton, and Henry Smith, and wounding twenty-seven others.[126]
May 22, 1968: Miami, Florida, Ernest Lee Grissom, a 15-year-old student at Drew Junior High School, shot and seriously wounded a teacher and a 13-year-old student after he had been reprimanded for causing a disturbance.[127]
January 17, 1969: Los Angeles, California, Two student members of the Black Panther Party, Alprentice Carter and John Huggins, were fatally shot during a student meeting inside Campbell Hall at the University of California, Los Angeles. The motive of the shooting regarded who would own the school's African American Studies Center. The shooter, Claude Hubert, was never to be found but three other men were arrested in connection with the shooting.[128]
January 23, 1969: Washington, D.C., Cardozo Senior High School assistant principal Herman Clifford, 45, was shot to death in the school's hallway by Ronald Joyner, 18, while scuffling with three youths who robbed the school's bank.[129]
November 19, 1969: Tomah, Wisconsin, Principal Martin Mogensen was shot to death in his office by a 14-year-old boy armed with a 20-gauge shotgun.[130]


List of school shootings in the United States

The US is built on immigration. There has always been discrimination against one group or another and the rigid structure of the society was a heaven for people who were happy with the status quo. Otherwise, depending on the sort of gun that was readily available, people have always acted the same.
Posted By: GerryLang

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 06/03/13 02:32 PM

Originally Posted By: afsaneh77
Originally Posted By: GerryLang
... school shootings are a modern phenomenon. They weren't happening in the 40's, 50's, and 60's. They started to happen when the country became liberalized, and kids were screwed up, families and communtites were destroyed....


Sure, except for this long list of shootings that has happened during 40's, 50's, 60's.

Quote:

1940s


(U.S. Population: 132M-151M)

May 6, 1940: South Pasadena, California, After being removed as principal of South Pasadena Junior High School, Vieling Spencer shot six school officials, killing five, before attempting to commit suicide by shooting himself in the neck.[80][81]
May 23, 1940: New York City, New York, Infuriated by a grievance, Matthew Gillespie, 62-year-old janitor at the Dwight School for Girls, shot and critically wounded Mrs. Marshall Coxe, secretary of the junior school.[82]
July 4, 1940: Valhalla, New York, Angered by the refusal of his daughter, Melba, 15, to leave a boarding school and return to his home, Joseph Moshell, 47, visited the school and shot and killed the girl.[83]
September 12, 1940: Uniontown, Pennsylvania, 29-year-old teacher Carolyn Dellamea is shot to death inside her third grade classroom by 35-year-old William Kuhns. Kuhns then shot himself in the chest in a failed suicide attempt. Kuhns had reportedly been courting Dellamea for over a year but the relationship was ended when Dellamea discovered that Kuhns was already married.[84][85]
October 2, 1942: New York City, New York, Irwin Goodman, 36-year-old mathematics teacher at William J. Gaynor Junior High School, was shot and killed in the school corridor by a youth.[86][87]
February 23, 1943: Port Chester, New York, Harry Wyman, 13, shot himself dead at the Harvey School, a boys’ preparatory school.[88]
June 26, 1946: Brooklyn, New York, A 15-year-old schoolboy who balked at turning over his pocket money to a gang of seven youths was shot in the chest in the basement of the Public School 147 annex of the Brooklyn High School for Automotive Trades.[89]
November 24, 1946: New York City, A 13-year-old student at St. Benedict’s Parochial School, shot and fatally wounded himself while sitting in an audience watching a school play.[90]
February 5, 1947: Madill, Oklahoma, 1st grade teacher Jessie Laird, 40, was shot to death in her classroom, during recess by her estranged husband, Ellis Laird, 62. Laird then fatally shot himself.[91]
December 1, 1947: Bala Cynwyd, Pennsylvania, Donald Peabody Sargent, 14, shot himself to death in his junior high school classroom.[92]
December 24, 1948: New York City, New York, A 14-year-old boy was fatally wounded by a shot from the .22-caliber rifle of a fellow student Robert Ross, 17. The youth was accidentally shot in the head when he chanced into range where Ross was target shooting near a lake on the school property.[93]
March 11, 1949: New York City, New York, A 16-year-old student at Stuyvesant High School was accidentally shot in the arm by a fellow student who was ‘showing off’ with a pistol in a classroom.[94]
November 13, 1949: Columbus, Ohio, Ohio State University freshman James Heer grabbed a .45 caliber handgun from the room of a Delta Tau Delta fraternity brother and shot and killed his fraternity brother Jack McKeown, 21, an Ohio State senior.[95]


1950s

(U.S. Population: 151M-179M)

April 25, 1950: Peru, Nebraska, Dr. William Nicholas, 48, president of Peru State College and Dr. Paul Maxwell, 56, education department head, were shot to death at their desks by Dr. Barney Baker, 54-year-old psychology professor. Baker was found dead of a self-inflicted gunshot at his home on campus.[96]
July 22, 1950: New York City, New York, A 16-year-old boy was shot in the wrist and abdomen at the Public School 141 dance during an argument with a former classmate.[97]
March 12, 1951: Union Mills, North Carolina, Professor W. E. Sweatt, superintendent and teacher at the Alexander School, was shot to death by students Billy Ray Powell, 16, and Hugh Justice, 19. The assailants had been reprimanded by Sweatt, and they waited for him as he locked his office door.[98]
June 4, 1951: New York City, New York, Carl Arch, a 50-year-old intruder to a girl's gym class, was shot and killed by a police officer at Manhattan's Central Commercial High School.[99]
November 27, 1951: New York City, New York, David Brooks, a 15-year-old student, was fatally shot as fellow pupils looked on in a grade school.[100]
April 9, 1952: New York City, New York, A 15-year-old boarding school student shot a dean rather than relinquish pin-up pictures of girls in bathing suits.[101]
July 14, 1952: New York City, New York, Bayard Peakes walked into the offices of the American Physical Society (APS) at Columbia University and shot and killed secretary Eileen Fahey with a .22 caliber pistol. Peakes was reportedly upset that the APS had rejected a pamphlet he had written.[102]
September 3, 1952: Lawrenceville, Illinois, After Georgine Lyon, 25, ended her engagement with Charles Petrach, Petrach shot and killed Lyon in a classroom at Lawrenceville High School where she worked as a librarian.[103]
November 20, 1952: New York City, New York, Rear Admiral E. E. Herrmann, 56, superintendent of the Naval Postgraduate School, was found dead in his office with a bullet in his head. A service revolver was found by his side.[104]
October 2, 1953: Chicago, Illinois, Patrick Colletta, 14, was shot to death by Bernice Turner,14, in a classroom of Kelly High School. It was reported that after Turner refused to date Colletta he handed her the gun and dared her to pull the trigger, telling her that the gun was “only a toy.” A coroner’s jury later ruled that the shooting was an accident.[105]
October 8, 1953: New York City, New York, Larry Licitra, 17-year-old student at the Machine and Metal Trades High School, was shot and slightly wounded in the right shoulder in the lobby of the school while inspecting a handmade pistol owned by one of several students.[106]
March 31, 1954: Newton, Massachusetts, John Frankenberger, 14, was accidentally shot to death in a classroom at Day Junior High School when a pistol being held by a classmate discharged.[107]
May 15, 1954: Chapel Hill, North Carolina, Putnam Davis Jr. was shot and killed during a fraternity house carnival at the Phi Delta Theta house at the University of North Carolina. William Joyner and Allen Long were shot and wounded during the exchange of gunfire in their fraternity bedroom. The incident took place after an all-night beer party. Mr. Long reported to the police that, while the three were drinking beer at 7 a.m., Davis pulled out a gun and started shooting with a gun he had obtained from the car of a former roommate.[108]
January 11, 1955: Swarthmore, Pennsylvania, After some of his dormmates urinated on his mattress, Bob Bechtel, a 20-year-old student at Swarthmore College, returned to his dorm with a shotgun and used it to shoot and kill fellow student Holmes Strozier.[109]
May 4, 1956: Prince George's County, Maryland, 15-year-old student Billy Prevatte fatally shot one teacher and injured two others at Maryland Park Junior High School after he had been reprimanded from the school.[110]
October 20, 1956: New York City, New York, A Booker T. Washington Junior High School student was wounded in the forearm by another student armed with a home-made weapon.[111]
October 2, 1957: New York City, New York, A 16-year old student was shot in the leg by a 15-year old classmate at a city high school.[112]
March 4, 1958: New York City, New York, A 17-year-old student shot a boy in the Manual Training High School.[113]
May 1, 1958: Massapequa, New York, A 15-year-old high Massapequa High School freshman was shot and killed by a classmate in a washroom.[114]
September 24, 1959: New York City, New York, Twenty-seven men and boys and an arsenal were seized in the Bronx as the police headed off a gang war resulting from the fatal shooting of a teenager at Morris High School.[115]

1960s

(U.S. Population: 179M-203M)

February 2, 1960: Hartford City, Indiana, Principal Leonard Redden shot and killed two teachers with a shotgun at William Reed Elementary School before fleeing into a remote forest, where he committed suicide.[116]
March 30, 1960: Alice, Texas, Donna Dvorak, 14, brought a .22 target pistol to Dubose Junior High School, and fatally shot Bobby Whitford, 15, in their 9th grade science class. Dvorak believed Whitford posed a threat to one of her girlfriends.[117]
June 7, 1960: Blaine, Minnesota, Lester Betts, a 40-year-old mail-carrier, walked into the office of 33-year-old principal Carson Hammond and shot him to death with a 12-gauge shotgun.[118]
January 4, 1961: Delmont, South Dakota, Donald Kurtz, 17-year-old senior at Delmont High School, was fatally wounded by a .22 caliber bullet from a rifle. The shot, intended as a sound effect for a school play, hit him in the chest during a rehearsal just minutes before the play was to take place.[119]
October 17, 1961: Denver, Colorado, Tennyson Beard, 14, got into an argument with William Hachmeister, 15, at Morey Junior High School. During the argument Beard pulled out a .38 caliber revolver and shot at Hachmeister, wounding him. A stray bullet also struck Deborah Faith Humphrey, 14, who died from her gunshot wound.[120]
August 1, 1966: Charles Whitman age 25, climbed atop the observation deck at the University of Texas-Austin, and killed 17 people and wounded 31 during a 96-minute shooting rampage in the University of Texas massacre.[121]
October 5, 1966: Grand Rapids, Minnesota, Grand Rapids High School student David Black, 15, killed school administrator Forrest Willey and seriously wounded fellow student Kevin Roth, 14.[122][123]
November 12, 1966: Mesa, Arizona, Bob Smith, 18, took seven people hostage at Rose-Mar College of Beauty. Smith ordered the hostages to lie down on the floor in a circle. He then proceeded to shoot them in the head with a 22-caliber pistol. Four women and a three-year-old girl died, one woman and a baby were injured but survived. Police arrested Smith after the massacre. Smith had reportedly admired Richard Speck and Charles Whitman.[124]
January 24, 1968: High Point, North Carolina, David Walker, 15, was shot to death just outside Central High School by Gerald Locklear, 15.
January 30, 1968: Miami, Florida, 16-year-old Blanche Ward shot and killed fellow student Linda Lipscomb, 16, with a .22-caliber pistol at Miami Jackson High School. According to Ward, she was threatened with a razor by Lipscomb during an argument over a fountain pen, and in the ensuing struggle the gun went off.[125]
February 8, 1968: Orangeburg, South Carolina, In the days leading up to February 8, 1968, about 200 mostly student protesters gathered on the campus of South Carolina State University, located in the city of Orangeburg, to protest the segregation of the All Star Bowling Lane. The bowling alley was owned by the late Harry K. Floyd. That night, students started a bonfire. As police attempted to put out the fire, an officer was injured by a thrown piece of banister. The police said they believed they were under attack by small weapons fire. The officers fired into the crowd, killing three young men: Samuel Hammond, Delano Middleton, and Henry Smith, and wounding twenty-seven others.[126]
May 22, 1968: Miami, Florida, Ernest Lee Grissom, a 15-year-old student at Drew Junior High School, shot and seriously wounded a teacher and a 13-year-old student after he had been reprimanded for causing a disturbance.[127]
January 17, 1969: Los Angeles, California, Two student members of the Black Panther Party, Alprentice Carter and John Huggins, were fatally shot during a student meeting inside Campbell Hall at the University of California, Los Angeles. The motive of the shooting regarded who would own the school's African American Studies Center. The shooter, Claude Hubert, was never to be found but three other men were arrested in connection with the shooting.[128]
January 23, 1969: Washington, D.C., Cardozo Senior High School assistant principal Herman Clifford, 45, was shot to death in the school's hallway by Ronald Joyner, 18, while scuffling with three youths who robbed the school's bank.[129]
November 19, 1969: Tomah, Wisconsin, Principal Martin Mogensen was shot to death in his office by a 14-year-old boy armed with a 20-gauge shotgun.[130]


List of school shootings in the United States

The US is built on immigration. There has always been discrimination against one group or another and the rigid structure of the society was a heaven for people who were happy with the status quo. Otherwise, depending on the sort of gun that was readily available, people have always acted the same.


I stopped reading that crap you posted after the first couple were of grown men killing their estranged wife and stuff like that. Kids shoot up schools today because they are the product of a degenerate liberal society. The US wasn't built on the kind of immigration we have today, to compare immigration of the 19th early 20th century to todays immigration is beyond stupid. The US never had 40 to 60 million illegal immigrants from a single country before. There were no Chechen or Somalis in small town America. Moden immigration took the soul out of the country. People dont build strong ties with people who are very different from them.
Posted By: afsaneh77

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 06/03/13 03:04 PM

Originally Posted By: GerryLang
I stopped reading that crap you posted after the first couple were of grown men killing their estranged wife and stuff like that. Kids shoot up schools today because they are the product of a degenerate liberal society. The US wasn't built on the kind of immigration we have today, to compare immigration of the 19th early 20th century to todays immigration is beyond stupid. The US never had 40 to 60 million illegal immigrants from a single country before. There were no Chechen or Somalis in small town America. Moden immigration took the soul out of the country. People dont build strong ties with people who are very different from them.


And you sound like a broken old record that blames everything on change: World is much better when we were kids, but then we got older and things change and we don't want them to change, so every bad thing that happen is blamed on change.

However, bad stuff used to happen, and just because there was no media coverage as there is today, you lived your childhood in blissful ignorance of what was going on. People have not changed. They are the same and they act the same.
Posted By: Sicilian Babe

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 06/03/13 07:56 PM

First of all, Gerry, your post was disrespectful. Please don't refer to someone's post as "crap" or "beyond stupid". That's against the rules. As it says, disagree all you want, but be respectful. You're the furthest thing from respectful.

Secondly,
Originally Posted By: GerryLang
Moden immigration took the soul out of the country. People dont build strong ties with people who are very different from them.
Really??? Because the Jews from Eastern Europe or Russia were so similar to the Irish or the Southern Italians? Remove those retro rose-colored glasses of yours.
Posted By: fathersson

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 06/03/13 08:42 PM

Very Interesting...all I need is someone to post a

Seriously?? and I hit the big numbers!


Question?- Doesn't bad things give birth to change?

and if a person says: "First of all" is that almost like pointing a finger at someone? Is that down dressing someone?

Does an old broken record sound any differnt then a new broken record?

Now Gerry you really must learn how to get your point across without showing disrespect. Sometimes you have to ask yourself...is it really worth the time, engery or anger to correct others? That you know are not correct? Will it change the persons way of thinking, the cruel world?
Nope... another one will just pop in and take its place. SOOOO Just grab yourself a beer and relax. It is Monday!
Posted By: Sicilian Babe

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 06/03/13 10:05 PM

First of all?? What?? I think you may have had a few too many beers, because I don't know that your point about the phrase "first of all" makes any sense! lol

And just what about Afsaneh's post makes it incorrect? Is it not factual?? Did she make up these acts of violence? Did they not happen? How is it incorrect? confused

As for change, Prometheus was punished for giving man fire and the pioneers often ended up dead in a ditch with an arrow in their backs. You're right. We should just accept life and not try to change or progress in any way. And these kids today? With the hair and the clothes and the loud music! UGH!

I will try to remember - Status quo good. Change bad.
Posted By: fathersson

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 06/03/13 10:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
First of all?? What?? I think you may have had a few too many beers, because I don't know that your point about the phrase "first of all" makes any sense! lol

And just what about Afsaneh's post makes it incorrect? Is it not factual?? Did she make up these acts of violence? Did they not happen? How is it incorrect? confused

As for change, Prometheus was punished for giving man fire and the pioneers often ended up dead in a ditch with an arrow in their backs. You're right. We should just accept life and not try to change or progress in any way. And these kids today? With the hair and the clothes and the loud music! UGH!

I will try to remember - Status quo good. Change bad.


Maybe because you didn't see it from your side of the trees...

Come on now...you are from NY. Whenever you see someone say to you "First of all" they are pointing their finger at you. and it is followed by the "Secondly" like a repremand.

Could care less about Afsaneh's post's correct or incorrect, I just enjoy seeing how many people she has a run in with and has pissed them off to the boil over point... lol

but the "old" comment is my point.

Does an old broken record sound any different then a new broken record? does it?
Or is ok for the new generation to change things at will, just for the sake of change? using the old line to jusifty the change?
are things tagged with the old label no good any more? never?

oh and status quo is wonderful if that is the way that person wants it to go...sucks for the other person who want to change something. wink

and some want to change everything don't they. smile
Come on SB lets have a brew and enjoy the night!
Posted By: Sicilian Babe

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 06/04/13 12:26 AM

I honestly have no idea what you mean about "First of all" and "Secondly". I was just keeping count of the fact that I made two points. Maybe it's because we're from different parts of NY!

As for Afs and the information she posted, you told Gerry "...is it really worth the time, engery or anger to correct others? That you know are not correct?" I was curious what you specifically found incorrect about the information she posted. I guess you don't really care about the facts, just the fact that people don't want to hear them.

We do agree, though, that plenty of old things are good. Change for the sake of change is silly. You only change something if it's needed. However, saying things have changed when a case can be made that maybe they haven't is different.
Posted By: Frank_Nitti

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 06/04/13 12:42 AM

Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
Secondly,
Originally Posted By: GerryLang
Moden immigration took the soul out of the country. People dont build strong ties with people who are very different from them.
Really??? Because the Jews from Eastern Europe or Russia were so similar to the Irish or the Southern Italians? Remove those retro rose-colored glasses of yours.

Modern immigration is the reason why the US is the youngest country on Earth. In fact, among all of the world's powers we are the one and only country that is getting younger. Unless we want to become an old, stale populus like Russia or Italy we should continue to embrace immigration, not forgetting that *we* are the original illegal immigrants.


Originally Posted By: GerryLang
Kids shoot up schools today because they are the product of a degenerate liberal society.
Charles Whitman shot up the UT Austin campus in 1966 from the observation deck of a clock tower--that observation deck is still closed today, btw. But that's only one of various examples from the past as has already pointed out. Seems you're being intentionally obtuse on this issue.
Posted By: fathersson

Re: Soldier killed in London!! - 06/04/13 02:15 AM

Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
As for Afs and the information she posted, you told Gerry "...is it really worth the time, engery or anger to correct others? That you know are not correct?" I was curious what you specifically found incorrect about the information she posted. I guess you don't really care about the facts, just the fact that people don't want to hear them.

If you know that you are right on a subject...then how long should you go on to try and change the other persons mind...My point is if you keep getting YEAH BUT or "how about this and that" and you are getting a deaf debater then you are wasting your time, and only anger and frustration will come about.

Often you will find that it is not what the person is saying, but rather if you like that poster or not.
So often people will look at something to pick apart on a poster they have come to dislike or find to be a rival to prove they are right and the other person is wrong. cool
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