Pope Francis

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/13/pope-francis-mario-bergoglio-election

He's 76, from Buenos Aires, and like I said in the other thread, he's a traditional conservative when it comes to abortion and same sex marriage. No surprise there. Anyone hoping for gay marriage or abortion inside the confines of the Church is pipe dreaming. It will NEVER happen.

He is Argentine but he was an Italian immigrant. In argentina he travels by public transportation. A pope of the people

Behold the man.

Congratulations to pope Francis the first! And though most on here know I'm not religious, I wish him good luck and I hope his papacy is successful, and you're right pizza boy, despite hope among some I don't think there will ever be a Pope who bends on the traditional conservative values.

He is the son of Italian immigrants. He was born in Buenos Aires.

His Wiki page seems fairly accurate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Francis

Anyway, I'm pleased by this choice. South Americans make up a huge percentage of the faithful, so it's great that they're finally represented. But like Richie says, Pope Francis has Italian blood .

The best we can hope for is the acceptance of others, and that we won't shun anyone in the future based on their sexual inclination. But you'll never see abortion or gay marriage in the Catholic Church. Not in the last 2000 years. Not in the next 2000 years.

No argument there. No one should be denied entrance into any religion based on race or sexuality. But it took the catholic church years to apologize for things like the crusades and the inquisition. But marriage and abortion are two things that isn't changing

Thanks Richie, i was just going to ask if that was an Italian name.

My mother is so happy about this you have no idea. She's calling me every 5 minutes. lol

I don't know much about the new Pope but i wish him well and hope he can straighten out some of the Church's problems.

76? I thought they might go for a younger guy but i guess not.

Vatican just admitted that their salvation lies not in the West, but in the 3rd World.

If they had elected an African Pope, my neighbors would go nuts. Not just a black President, but now a black Pope? WHAT IS THE WORLD COMING TO?!?!

But yes pb is right. Same old shit in the rotting corrupt cesspool that is the Church, which is a great shame. Congrats dude, you get to captain the Titanic.

I hate to say it, but that is so true. Alot of people would of freaked out over it.

Congrats to Pope Francis

I heard on the news he's not really a Vatican insider so it'll be interesting to see how he'll handle the papacy.

They must be the true Christians.

I wish Pope Francis the best in his endeavors. He seems to be a bit shy.

Yes, me too. He has alot of hard work ahead of him and i wish him well.

I'm really not up on the structure of the Vatican, but does a new Pope get to bring in all new people to help him run things at the Vatican. In other words will some of the old timers presently at the Vatican be removed?

The Pope has almost unlimited authority. Any limits are a function of Church law.

Very happy for Pope Francis. Looking forward to his leadership and wish him the best in the future.

From that viewpoint, you can make the argument that Pope Francis is a compromise. Because although he was born in South America, his parents were Italian. So it pacifies the West and the Third World at the same time.

Oh, and for the record, I think you meant their future lies in the Third World. Our salvation lies in Christ .

Argentina is not a third world country (think of Somalia, Haiti, etc as the proper use for that phrase), it is a developing country.

Sorry, its my politics/economics education kicking in lol

A frat brother of mine who spent a semester down in Argentina during college, equated it to a "developing country with first world skin (European)".

argentina makes some great wine!

Tell me about it, great women too!

thick at the hips, and quiet at the lips!

Very historic day for the Church. First pope from the southern hemisphere; first pope from the western hemisphere; and just as intriguing, if not more so, the first Jesuit pope. The Jesuits, an order founded on the solemn ideal of loyal service to the pope, now has one of its own as the Vicar of Christ. They are the scholars of the Church and have had a dynamic influence in the world.

By the way, the title of the thread is a little off. The Pope will be known as Pope Francis. He will only be referred to as Francis the First after a subsequent pope adopts the name Francis II. Let's hope our Argentine pope will go down in history as Francis the Great.

Incidentally, Nostradamus predicted this would be the last Pope.

What amazes me is that there has never been a pope named after Saint Francis of Assisi before. When I first saw text that read "Pope Francis I" on a TV news show at the coffee shop today, I figured it was a typo for "Pope Francis IX" or something.

Most all I have to say has already been voiced by other posters.

But still, I wish the new Pope had been someone younger. From what I heard on the news this evening, those who are close to him say he has already been slowed by age.

He's 76. Will there be a new conclave within just a few years?

I honestly thought the Cardinals might go for someone just a little bit younger this time around (like, under 70...).


Signor V.

That's what we need some Juvenal delinquent who is under 70. Funny thing is I am pretty sure I will never make it to 70.

But listening to the things he did as a cardinal. Maybe you have to be old so you can get the tools you need to be a Pope?

Don't forget Argentina puts out some pretty good soccer players as well as women and wine.

Do we get a new Santa Claus too?

Just saw an interview with cardinal Egan. He is a friend of the new pope. He said right after 9/11 when the pope was still a cardinal he came to the US to see if he could help in any way.

Egan said he the pope loves classical music. So Egan would send him tapes. Egan Can not vote because he is too old 83. We should all look so good at 83. He also said if Francis was younger he would have been on his short less. So he thinks he was a little old to have been picked.

Egan left Rome early but before he left he met with the Cardenas from Argentina and asked him if he was going to come to the Us in the future. He said he would come.

Danito I never let God or religion interfere with my fun. But I never made fun of anyone's religion either.

When I was in tge hospital the first time for leg infection. I had the room mate from hell. It did not take me long to dislike the guy.

My kids are in my hospital room visiting me.

Then a women from another religion comes in and asks me if she could pray for me. So I say sure because I like to cover all the bases just in case.

Then she ask the room mate from hell if she can pray for him. He evidently said yes. I could not see him because the curtain was closed enough so I could not see him.

But I could see the women praying over him. Then all of a sudden she puts her hand over her eyes while she is praying. Then she leaves. As my kids left I asked my oldest son if the room mate from hell did anything while the women was there.

He did not want to tell me because he knows I got a temper. The room mate from hell exposed himself to her while she was trying to pray for him.

I went a little wild on the guy. I told him don't sleep because if you do I will take my intravenous stand and put it through your head one night.

Finally they put him in another room. The day my wife came to get me out of the place. While she was paying the bill I got dressed and visited my former room mate from hell. He was by himself and he was sleeping. Before I left his room I put him into a bigger deeper sleep.

Want to know his religion. It doesn't really matter does it he definately was tge room mate from hell

I too was hoping for a little younger Pope. Did you know that Pope Francis only has one lung? I don't know the details except he's had one lung for many years. He appears to be in good health but geez, that's not a good sign.

TIS

Some medical experts weighed in on the issue of the pope having one lung, and the overall opinion was that if the condition hadn't adversely affected him from his early teenage years to age 76, it's likely that it won't manifest into a problem for him.

I agree. Their roster is aging, especially in the outfield and starting rotation, but I'm still not counting them out in the National League.

Are you telling me, you killed him?

No

Is that necessary?

Yeah, I kinda jumped the gun there, Klyd. But in my defense, that's just what CNN flashed in their original headline. But I should have thought it through after almost twenty years of Catholic schooling .

And I'm very aware of the Jesuit thing, having gone to Fordham and all. And I, too, am surprised that this was the first Pope Francis. Francis of Assisi is one of the biggest icons in the Church. But that aside, the Franciscan Order is so influential that it's just hard to believe.

Yo, Frank-eeee!

I was wondering whether he'd be "called" the "1st". I am surprised he is the first one to choose the name "Francis".

Btw does anyone know what name has been chosen the most? Pope John XXIII comes to mind.

TIS

Correct - John it is.

Here is an interesting article from The Newark Star-Ledger about papal names:

********************************

What's in a name? New pope Jorge Mario Bergoglio selects Francis as papal name


By Caleb Bell
Religion News Service

Once Jorge Mario Bergoglio was elected as the new leader of the Catholic Church, he had a big initial decision to make: what his new papal name would be.

Bergoglio chose Francis as his new name, the first pope to select that moniker.

Choosing a new name is a decision that's tied up in history, tradition and more than a little symbolic value.

In papal tradition, newly elected pontiffs choose a name to identify themselves during their reigns. The tradition has been around for centuries, even though no law or rule requires that a pope pick a new name.

Chester Gillis, a professor of theology at Georgetown University, said that the pope's choice of name offers an early indicator of what his papacy might be like.

"The pope's choice will reflect his own personal spirituality, but he knows it will send a political message," Gillis said.

Gillis said the pope's new name could also indicate the theological direction he wants to take during his reign. Popes usually choose names to honor a predecessor or to symbolically link their reigns with that of a past pontiff.

"Whatever name is chosen, there will be spiritual logic to it," said Michele Dillon, a Catholic scholar at the University of New Hampshire. "There's a pattern whereby the pope takes the name of someone who was spiritually significant to that person."

Benedict XVII was an unlikely choice because it could have caused confusion between the current pope and the pope emeritus, Benedict XVI.

There was a chance the new pope could have adopted the name John XXIV due to the Catholic Church's emphasis on "new evangelization." Pope John XXIII is already on the path to sainthood, is known as "Good Pope John" and was a revolutionary figure who convened the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965) that modernized the church.

Benedict XVI took the name of Benedict XV, who guided the Catholic Church through World War I. "Treading in his footsteps, I would like to place my ministry at the service of reconciliation and harmony between persons and peoples," Benedict XVI said in his first general audience.

Benedict XVI also sought to honor St. Benedict, a major influence in early European Christianity.

Cardinal Karol Wojtyla became John Paul II in 1978 to honor his short-lived predecessor John Paul I, who had picked his name from his two immediate predecessors, John XXIII and Paul VI.

Adopting a papal name became common in the 10th century, though there are examples of popes changing their names centuries before.

John II was the first pope to change his name, in 533. His birth name was Mercury, but in order to avoid naming a pagan god the head of the Holy See, he changed it.

The last pope to use his own birth name was Marcellus II in 1555.

One name, however, is off-limits: Peter is considered sacrosanct in honor of the first pope, who tradition holds was also the longest-serving.

Here's a list of the most popular papal names:

1. John (23)
2. Benedict (16)
3. Gregory (16)
4. Clement (14)
5. Leo (13)
6. Innocent (13)
7. Pius (12)
8. Stephen (9, although some debate 10)
9. Boniface (9)
10. Alexander and Urban (tied at 8 each)

The 10 Most Unique Papal Names

1. Telesphorus (c. 125-136 A.D.)
2. Eleutherius (c. 174-189 A.D.)
3. Zephyrinus (198-217 A.D.)
4. Eutychian (275-283 A.D.)
5. Miltiades (311-314 A.D.)
6. Hormisdas (514-523 A.D.)
7. Zosimus (417-418 A.D.)
8. Symmachus (498-514 A.D.)
9. Simplicius (468-483 A.D.)
10. Vigilius (537-555 A.D.)

****************************************

That last Top Ten list sounds like it should be read by David Letterman!


Signor V.

Well, as someone said we should hardly expected a "Blue State Pope." I am sure they will evolve on women's and gay issues, celibacy, birth control and abortion someday but not in the near future.

My first impression of him was favorable. I liked him dismissing the prissy aides telling him what to say, and I liked his request that the crown in St. eter's have a moment of silence before he blessed them. His track record of living simply, riding the bus to work, and doing away with all the frills Benedict liked so much is a good symbolic start.

One hopes he sweeps the curia clean, opens up on the child molestation issue, and maybe sells off some of the Vatican treasure to reubild parishes and schools that have had to close over the years. He should also use the Church's wealth to compensate all te abuse victims because the average catholic should not be putting money in the collection plate to further the cover up. He also needs transparence with the Vatican Bank.

Benedict XVI will go down as the George W. Bush of popes.

And BTW I think the most popes are named John, and I think Leo is a close second.

So now we have had two "firsts" in our lifetimes as Popes. John Paul I and now Francis I.

Interesting SV. I never heard of even one of the most "unique" Pope names, confirming just how unique I guess.

Btw, I did NOT know (or if I learned it in Catholic School, I don't remember it) that Peter was off limits as a Pope name. As a matter of fact, I remember years ago, some saying that the last Pope would be named Peter, indicating the end of days. Blows that theory. LOL


TIS

Isnt there some kind of superstition that if a pope takes the Name Peter it will be the end of the world?

DT,

I think our posts crossed. See my last post. I heard the same.



TIS

Kind of interesting he chose Francis of Assisi rather than Francis Xavier, co-founder of the Jesuits. Francis of Assisi is more about simplicity and going back to basics.

It is unclear which Francis he was choosing could be both since Xavier was a Jesuit. Francis of Assisi makes better copy which is why the journalists have gone with it. I mean why let the facts get in the way of a good story?

PB there's always one, and unfortunately this one does it more than one would care to imagine.

Yeah, you're right, DT. He's anti-Christian, anti-capitalism, anti-western world in general. So I don't know why I'm surprised. It's just that I don't want to close another thread about the Pope or the Church. I'd hope that non Catholics/Believers would just shy away from posting at all, rather than post sarcasm. But I digress because he IS from the scumbag country who gave us Hitler and the Nazis .

Well DT, don't know about you, but I'm relieved. I was worried this Pope would choose the name Peter. I'm just not quite ready to see the end yet.


TIS

Lol Tis... I have a good story about this guy who delivers sandwiches to my office. He swore up and down that the world was going to end with the Mayan Calendar thing at the end of 2012. Every time he delivers a sandwich he goes off on some kind of rant (I think he did too much something in the 60's). During one of them he told me how he was going to make tens of millions of dollars on some scheme or another, and the kicker was he told me that he was going to pay me to set up all these trusts with the money. I stopped him and asked "Well, why not spend it since the world is coming to an end?" He was stumped.

WTF- LETS NOT START NAME CALLING- Many good people come from Germany including our last POPE

don't get down. I was calling him Francis I until I read that the number didn't apply. I think he'll be called that for a while. I too was surprised that nobody had taken the name Francis before. He's one of the really beloved saints.

And thanks for reminding me that you too are a Jesuit product. The Jesuits are scholarly, worldly, devout and have just a big enough streak of "Bad-ass" in them.

As I understand it, the name Francis refers directly to Francis of Assisi. Some church historians alluded to the belief that if the pope had sought to honor St. Francis Xavier (whom he no doubt holds in especially high regard, then he would have taken the name "Francis Xavier" as that saint has never been referred to as just Francis.

Start an athiest thread if you want. Don't write that on this thread

Thanks, Nicky.

That was my whole point. If you want to start a thread bashing the Church or mocking those who believe, go right ahead. You wouldn't catch me posting in it, that's for sure. But I'd hope that others would view this thread in the same fashion.

You don't like the Pope or the Church, hey, whatever floats your boat. But just do me a favor and leave it out of this thread or I'll just request that it be closed, and I don't want to do that AGAIN.

That's us, Klyd. Devout and bad ass .

On Good Day NY this morning, they were interviewing a monsignor who was a friend of Pope Francis. One of the anchors, Greg Kelly, is a graduate of Fordham. When someone asked the monsignor what it will mean to the Church that he's a Jesuit, Greg Kelly jumped in and said, "It means he'll be a tough grader!"

Greg Kelly is also the son of Ray Kelly the NYPD boss.

Yes, he is, and he's pretty funny when his father's on the show. He tries to be professional, but once he asked his father for an exclusive, and the commissioner turned him down, and he said, "Fine! I'll just ask Mom. She tells me everything anyway."

Everything I've read and heard about Pope Francis makes me admire him more. While he may be a bit conservative for my taste, he is so genuine and warm. He truly seems to embrace the word of Christ and wants to be among the people. You have to love that.

The thing I like most so far about this Pope is is his genuine compassion for the poor, sick, and elderly.

I agree. They said he has gone to hospitals and washed the feet of people with aids. Sounds so..... biblical.




TIS

While Benedict wasn't terrible, I just didn't see a whole lot of compassion in the man, it's a shame that a lot of the scandals happened in his tenure. But Pope Francis strikes me similar to JPII- a man among the people, humble, gracious, actually believes in very deeply in using Christ to help others, which I have to admire even if I'm not religious.

I think it's a given that any Pope (and Pizzaboy said this before me) is going to be conservative on social issues, but I have a feeling Pope Francis isn't really focused on that. He's more about those who are less fortunate than politics.

I thought it was kiss the feet of people with AIDS, regardless it was very compassionate.

Completely agree about Benedict. I personally lost interest (and some respect) for the Catholic Church as an institution during his tenure. Never stopped praying or believing in Jesus Christ, just didnt need or cared for the Church. I am hoping that as I get older (and settle down with a wife/kids) I can make the church a bigger part of my life.

According to some news report, Pope Francis was almost elected 8 years ago. Supposedly, it was pretty close between him and Pope Benedict, which may be why the vote was so quick this time.

Thank you fathersson. I don't know why when anybody disagrees with me on political/social issues, they come up with Hitler and that kind of stuff.
I'm not really sure why this little joke caused that kind of outcry. I didn't mean to insult anybody. Just wanted to express that I believe it's pretty irrelevant who becomes the next pope, even for the Catholic church.
Oh, and I don't know why you, pizzaboy, believe that I'm "anti-western world" in general.
One more thing, I've always thought that these are open boards. Whenever I start a thread - in the "general discussion" or elsewhere, I know that people will disagree; after all that's what makes it a "discussion". And pluralism of ideas is part of these boards and our Western societies.

I quite liked the name Boniface for a Pope.

Yeah, its always good for the pope to put on a good face.... or should I say a bella figura?

That and the fact that they had a few weeks notice that they need to pick a new Pope.

I like his telling everyone to stop wearing all that fru fru clothing, and that he told the bishops all over the world NOT to come to Rome for his investiture, but to give the money to charity.

I like his choice of name as well, and surprised he is the first one choosing Francis. Like it or not, he has the power to make a difference, and I hope he does it to make things better.

Pope provides insight into selecting St Francis of Assisi:

http://news.yahoo.com/francis-turns-charm-first-meeting-press-111911747.html

Francis then described how he was comforted by his friend, Brazilian Cardinal Claudio Hummes, as it appeared the voting was going his way and it seemed "a bit dangerous" that he would reach the two-thirds necessary to be elected.
When the threshold was reached, applause erupted in the frescoed Sistine Chapel.
"He (Hummes) hugged me. He kissed me. He said don't forget about the poor," Francis recalled. "And that's how in my heart came the name Francis of Assisi," who devoted his life to the poor, missionary outreach and caring for God's creation.

Definitely!

For obvious reasons I don't want to expand on that issue. But if you are confused, let me ask you, why do you think it does make a difference?

Having a new Pope is pretty relevant to Catholic's. That's like saying that a new President being elected is irrelevant to Americans.

Nice.

Just wanted to express that I believe it's pretty irrelevant who becomes the next pope, even for the Catholic church.
[/quote]
[/quote]

For obvious reasons I don't want to expand on that issue. But if you are confused, let me ask you, why do you think it does make a difference?[/quote]
Having a new Pope is pretty relevant to Catholic's. That's like saying that a new President being elected is irrelevant to Americans. [/quote]

I'm Catholic but i personally couldn't care less who the Church appoints as pope mainly because i think organized religion is a shambles nowadays.

We should all hope for this; Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddist, et al. The world is in a big hurt. Regardless of your religious or non-religious leaning, the human condition in most of the world is suffering. Cynicism won't improve it. Positive compassion can only help. Rock on Pope Francis.

I guess I'll burn on hell for this, but I couldn't just hold myself.

Are you sure? What can or will the new Pope change? What did the last Pope change? Remember the last election thread here. It was full of controversies, because it did make a difference who became the next US president.
As far as I understand, the Vatican won't give up any view on any social issue in the next 10 or 20 years. They know they are losing members in Europe, they'll struggle to keep their members in Latin America, they might win a few more in Africa. About Asia - I don't know.
The new Pope might renew the relationship with other religions or confessions, but does that have any immediate consequence for any Catholic?

Good eye Polakvet.

You guys criticize other conservatives and Christians for being against gays, lesbians and abortions yet wish the new Pope the best....


Hmmmmm......

Well, haven't you heard, Stern? It's okay to hate the Catholic Church as long as it's in the name of liberal idealism .

It's okay to say that ALL priests are pedophiles, but for some reason that's not profiling. But if you say that ALL Italians are mobsters, or ALL Irish are drunks, or ALL Jews are cheap, or All Blacks are lazy, or All Germans are Nazis, or ALL Muslims are terrorists, then it's an ugly stereotype. And don't get me wrong, it's dead wrong. But for some reason a lot of the far left crowd think that it's okay to stereotype the Church.

Typical far left hypocrisy. Hate reserved for the Catholic Church is okay because it's "progressive" hate.

if the shoe fits...

Very true, Pizza Boy. Yeah, I love the Pope, and really liked John Paul II. I appreciate them more now that I'm away from past episodes. Mother Teresa was a wonderful woman, and although atheists don't believe and hate us Christians, they still can't say anything bad about her or even find one thing bad she did.

It just amazes me a few far left people from this forum said they like the Pope and wish him the best when they hate others like him.

Typical hate of religion on the part of the secular left. We see it here on the forum quite frequently.

I'm not a religious man, nor am I the biggest fan of the Catholic Church, but I certainly wish nothing but the very best for Pope Francis.

I think you won't find hate speech here against the Catholic Church. Criticism yes. But hate?
And: There's a difference between people (priests, Italians, Jews, etc.) and an institution. To use one of your examples: I think that most people (including Catholics) would agree that the way that the Catholic Church dealt with the pedophile scandals in the last years was not very elegant. But if somebody points out this problem doesn't mean he says that every priest is a pedophile.

The Catholic Church has 1.3 Billion followers so yes it has a global impact. And not so long ago when JFK was running for president there was a concern that he would take orders from the Pope and Vatican. Liberals have forgot this fact quickly.

And to say the Pope doesn't set an agenda, make changes or have power within the church and to its followers is just a naive misinformed statement.

see how much real power the pope has. If Francis is serious about cleaning up the curia and the vatican bank, let's hope he gets more than the 30 days they gave John Paul I before he drank that cup of tea.

Why are you so concerned with the Vatican Bank? What's it to you?

Read the paper.

What about it? The Vatican Bank is a private institution. Are you a share holder? They can share as little or as much as they want.

Read the paper. Being involved in blackmail is not a private matter. It is a criminal enterprise.

I agree DT. Since the value of so much of the Vatican Bank's deposits and other assets accrue from tax exemptions in the US, the Bank's integrity is of concern all Americans.

Oh here we go! DT aren't to an attorney? Hasn't the bank been accused and not convicted yet? Examples like the propaganda that's in the paper could be used with EVERY organization why do you always attack the Catholic Church?

http://m.spiegel.de/international/europe/a-889560.html#spRedirectedFrom=www&referrrer=

Just some information

I for instance, never said I like the new pope. I don't even know him to like him. I've not seen him do much yet to form an opinion whether to like him or not. I merely said I like his choice of name. And I certainly don't hate Catholics. I don't care what you want to believe, that's your business, as long as you don't push your agenda and your beliefs down everyone else's throat. And wishing someone do good is a positive attitude. Not sure why you think a lack of belief in a higher being equates to having no morals. If one thing, our morals come from common sense. If things get better, it would be better for all of us.

Historic!

http://news.yahoo.com/pope-francis-tells-benedict-were-brothers-125541394.html

I'm an atheist and I don't hate Christians. I just don't believe in religion, I think everything you do in your life is only on how you do it and there is no supernatural power that can magically help you if you ask it.

I liked the Athiests in The Big Lebowski

The nihilists

Mmmm, it is supposed to be... But actually some goverment issues are doing the worst.

Yeah, forgot to mention, even tough I'm an atheist, I take my mother to the church on sundays. People usually give me weird looks, as I now have a bald shaved head and I usually got my tracksuits pants on and a leather jacket

Did you know Pope Francis used to play football in the streets of Buenos Aires with the Argentine legend, Alfredo Di Stéfano?

They were threatening castration. What, are we splitting hairs here?