Conservatives UNITE !!!

To all my Conservative friends on the BB (few though they may be...)

Please take a minute to sign this petition keeping Government control OUT of healthcare.

And then forward to a friend (or two).

http://www.freeourhealthcarenow.com/

From what I understand, internet email/petitions are not accepted for any kind of polling or petitions. They must be individually signed and sent.

If they accept it or not I signed it. I sure as hell don't want to give up the excellent insurance I have now for that crap they want me to have.

Hey. How about citing for us some of the major provisions of HR3200 and the Senate bill (the assigned number of which I don't recall) regarding health care reform. I haven't read either, but apparently some of you have. So, bring we Board members up to date on their provisions. Thanks.

I don't know enough about the proposed plan to endorse it or not, but I do know that the current system is messed up. If you lose that excellent insurance, Mig, be prepared to pay about $1400 a month for you, the Colonel and your son.

Since I am an independent contractor at work, I don't get any benefits. Luckily for me, Mr. Babe covers us through his job. However, the other brokers in my office don't have spouses with insurance benefits, and they have to buy their own. Family coverage is approximately $1400 per month. How much do you need to make to afford $17,000 per year for medical benefits. And don't even think about a trip to the dentist. That's not covered!

A few decades too late, but hey better late...

I don't want to pay $1400 a month for medical. I only pay $460 a year now. And like I said before it is excellent insurance.

That's definitely subsidized by someone. That's my MONTHLY payment as a single person, and probably the lowest in the state (Horizon/Blue Cross).

Problem with socialized medicine is, someone's gotta pay for it, and that someone is us. Either way, you're gonna pay for it (either in taxes or in shit service). I'd rather pay for it in a monthly bill than pay even higher taxes on everything under the sun for something "free". Nothing's free.

We have our medical through the Navy insurance. And I DON'T want to be forced to give it up to get shit service.

Nobody is going to force you to give it up. This plan is to make sure that EVERYONE has insurance. There are MILLIONS of people in the country who don't, either because they've lost their jobs, or their jobs don't provide for it. My friend's husband lost his job, which means that they lost their insurance. Her office provided insurance, but the employees had to pay 2/3 of the premium, which they couldn't afford on her one salary. She ended up having to leave a job that she had had for nine years, and that she loved, to find a job that provided benefits.

Geoff, I agree with the sentiment of what you've said, but the system is broken and it needs to be fixed. The premiums keep going up and up and up, and the insurance companies are seeing record profits in most cases. However, our doctors aren't allowed to tell us what tests we should have, what medication we should be taking, or how long we're allowed to stay in a hospital. The insurance companies are dictating all of it. That's just WRONG.

Mig, how fortunate for you that you have such cheap and excellent benefits, but put yourself in the place of a family of four that has none. And think about what it would cost you to buy it. And then maybe you would see that something needs to be done.

I know the system needs a good over haul. I'm scared that the Navy insurance will drop all the vets and we will have to get the insurance that they want us to have.

I've seen several commercials on tv that says this health insurance will be terrible for people.

Apple (or anyone else), can you briefly list a couple of important points of the proposed health care bill?

Do you think that those commercials might have been made by the people who oppose the plan??

Of course it was. I haven't seen any for the plan. Have you?

Actually, yes I have.

I remember hearing a statistic that only 35% of the population has medical insurance. If that number is right, that is sad.

The system does need a major overhaul. Not only are the insurance companies running the doctors, but the pharmaceutical companies are messing with the system too. How many freakin' drugs do we have to take? One to fall asleep, one to wake up, one to get an erection, one to stop depression, one for my bones, one for my hair and of course that damn cholesterol.

Way back in 1970 when I got my job with Ma Bell we had Blue Cross/Blue Shield FOR FREE! My wife had a fibroid tumor (benign) removed from her breast at a top NYC hospital by a reknown surgery. I PAID $0.

Something has changed drastically.

MC, here is some interesting information about the statistics regarding the uninsured in the United States. The numbers are frightening.

Health Insurance in the United States

Alot or you who are grieving over or experiencing a stroke over what you believe is the content of the health care reform bills before the House and Senate may want to read at least a synopsis of those bills instead of just listening to talk show hyperbole or commercials on the subject.

Somewhere above in a post is the statement that we all pay for health insurance either directly or indirectly. I've been to the doctor one time in the past twelve months for a minor check up. Does my annual health insurance premium reflect only that? Of course not. It also reflects part of the cost to my insurance provider to cover its costs (plus profit) for all the medical tests and procedures for others insured by my provider. As a Vet, I am entitled to federal medical benefits, but I don't use them. Still, through taxes I pay for other's use of them just like you do.

The problem is we don't know enough of the details. Obama needs to be more specific. I suggest anyone who is interested to watch Obama today at 8:00 EST where he'll hopefully be more specific on his plan.

That being said, this is what I summize so far:

It is my understanding that NOBODY will be forced to change from the plan they have and that all small business with over a certain number of employees must provide insurance; and all children will have to have insurance; Also, that this public option is just that, another option for people to choose. And, that everyone will be insured; not turned away for a pre-existing condition;

The issue is how do we pay for it. Although, (even if we come up with a good way to pay for it, I have a feeling that the party of NO would still say NO.) I've heard several theories but Obama has said more than a zillion times that those making under 150,000 (or was it 250,000) a year will NOT be taxed but rather those making over that amount, which amounts to a small percentage (like 2 per cent). Now, in reality WILL "we" end up being taxed? Maybe. I'd be for a small increase in some form if it meant solving this problem.

They mentioned taxing soda. I'm ok with that. Or, why not increase entertainment fees to sports arenas, concerts or hunting license fees, or anything that isn't a necessity of life. Just leave the smokers alone, they're paying up the ying yang as it is.


TIS

Let me just add that, my insurance through the school distict is pretty good (Blue Shield). However, when I had two children under my insurance I was paying about 350 per month. When my youngest turned 24 I dropped her and I paid "O" per month and have been ever since. I felt like a got a raise.

Before I retired I talked to the benefits office who told me that IF I retire before the next school year, I can retire and still pay nothing for my health benefits until I'm 65 and qualify for medicare. (For some reason I have to pay dental though which is $59. per month) BUT she said if I choose not to retire that beginning next school year I WOULD have to start paying approximately $120. per month. That's like a pay cut to me.

Anyway, I am willing to pay to a small degree if it'll help us out of this mess.

TIS

Thanks for summarizing whatever you knew TIS. I am still hoping that somebody here would know the details that can be put in lay-man terms. After all this thread is meant for common people to petition against the provisions of the bill and (I am guessing) have an informed debate on it.

Fun how most workers years ago never thought that the medical insurance that their employer gave them was worth much. Often back then the company use to pay the whole shot and it was a perk in a employment package.

If you couldn't spend it, you didn't care that much about it.
Now you would give your right arm to still get a company to give you a fully paid medical policy in your pay.


Sorry, but I'm not for given ever do nothing on earth medical insurance that I'm busting my ass to earn each and ever day!
You want it, go out and work or take whatever free clinic the government wants to set up for ya!
I know it sounds heartless, but I tired of paying the bill for others. I have good insurance because I work hard. I eat well too. Sorry, settle for less if you aren't earning it.

There is nothing wrong with having differnt teirs of services.
You want free stuff then set up free clinics for those who need them, but don't take me down to provide for others. If you do nothing, then you get nothing or very little.

A legitimate stance if the wage system is fundamentally fair.

But it isn't, so fuck you.

FS, if you take a look at the information that I posted in response to MC's above post, then you will see that the vast number of the uninsured are employed, but many small businesses can no longer afford the rising premiums.

"Nearly two-fifths (38 percent) of all workers are employed in smaller businesses, where less than two-thirds of firms now offer health benefits to their employees. It is estimated that 266,000 companies dropped their health coverage between 2000-2005 and 90 percent of those firms have less than 25 employees."

I did some marketing consulting for a small company last year. The owners told me that they used to pay 2/3 of their workers' premiums. Those premiums have increased over the last five years that forced them to inverse that formula.

Isn't it funny how the GOP is howling about the costs of this healthcare, yet they threw record billions to building nation states out of rocks and sand.

REally, if one is to piss away a record amount (like the GOP did 2003-2007), then I would assume better that shit goes to us. Than to overseas to people who rather roadside bomb us.

At least I prefer that.

RR, exactly. I also heard the other day on the news that the cost of the war for one year (I believe it was a year) was a trillion dollars or close to it. If it's for going to war with a country that didn't attack us that's ok. If it's for health care for our country, then let's watch our wallet.


TIS

Since this is a "come on and subscribe with me" sort of thread...

Yes. And it's impossible to restructure one aspect of society in isolation, without considering other things in flux. To quote Joe Kishore at WSWS.org:

It is not possible, through the existing political system, to effect a change in government policy. The basic reason is that the political institutions and parties are the unvarnished instruments of class rule. The financial elite exercises absolute control over every aspect of political life.

Capo, I think you're reading too many of olivant's posts and he's rubbing off on you.

Impossible. I've got him on Ignore.

I did some checking. According to the World Health Report these are the rankings of countries as far as health care, showing France as #1 and the U.S. 37 (out of 190 countries). The article says that this is from 2000 and because of the complexity of the task that's the lastest they have.

TIS


1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America




http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

LOL at SC's and capo's posts

I never used the ignore (although sometimes tempted) . Do you see all the posts except the one person's you ignored? If that person you ignored is quoted in another post, you'd still see it right?

Ok, back to business.

TIS

I signed it the last I heard it will cost over 1 trillion dollars, yeah I said 1 trillion, and one article I saw stated that this will cause health care costs to actually increase. I wonder what Obama is up to he wants this awfully fast, too fast if you ask me

Yes, Obama is evil plotting to destroy America...by helping (or trying, agree or not) 40+ million Americans.

That son of a bitch.

And yet it's there for all to see.

Maybe you're rubbing off me, in all the wrong ways.

Who knows, maybe by the end of the year, you'll be posting reviews of Steven Seagal movies at FCM.

When a politician has an agenda, their first year in office is when they try to push through those items of importance. They need to strike while the iron is hot.

I love this quote from the President tonight (and I'm paraphrasing), "I'm not talking about me. I HAVE the best healthcare in the world. This is about the people who don't have it." He has summarized my feelings about this issue.

Capo, you may find this a bit out of character, but I agree with your quote. The sad truth is that the USA is becoming one big turd on the inevitable flush. Too many things are broken. Our decaying bridges are not the only thing collapsing.

No TIS, that's not so. The cost of the US military operations in both Iraq and Afghanistan amount to about $1 trillion since inception.

Yes, I read that SB. I feel sorry for the segment of our population who work in low paying jobs or minimum wage jobs. It sucks to be on the bottom of the food chain.
Many of us started there at one time. Some of us worked our way up from the bottom, others as we all know prefer to stay there and let others provide for them.


Like I said I am NOT in favor of giving up what I have earned for "Do Nothing" people.

I am sorry to say that the government will go right back to those smaller businesses and make them pay thru the nose, paying for all of this. Many of them will then slowly let their worker go, as they fail because of the demands put on them. So by trying to help all these extra people you will also put so many small business out there in the same boat.

We bail out the big companies that screwed the public. Banks get tons of money, but have you seen what they are giving all the hard working people who are trying to save a buck in one of their banks. less then 1 to 1.5% interest. Talk about screwing people while they show record profits.

The housing crisis happened because people who couldn't afford homes got them, because "everyone" should have the dream of home ownership. Yea Right!
Everyone made money giving folks home loans or sales commissions on housing sales, but who now pays for it all.Yes, the tax payers once again.

How about student loans. How may people never pay a dime back or very little. But everyone need a college education right. Sure as long as it is on the back of someone else.

What ever happen to pay your own way? Nah, just charge it on a charge card until you have to go bankrupt.
Your right things are like an empty shell, drained by all the take care of me people!

I had a good example today on how fucked up health care is in this country. I recently went for some tests in the hospital. The hospital and Dr's bill came to over $10,000. Since the tests were done "in network" for my health insurance, I didn't have to pay a dime. The doctor and hospital combined got $800 from my insurance company. If I had no insurance, they would have been billing me $10K.

But what of those "Do" People who occupy those lower/lower-middle class jobs which make up the infrastructure of our country who just can't afford a decent health insurance policy for themselves and their families? Not bums, just fucked?

Then again, notice how people with insurance always preach that it's a privlege, not a right. I'm reminded of the Gospel of Wealth mentality in Victorian Times when the rich (most born into money and comfort) would say that the poor could be money too if only God was behind them.



Well big businesses too. Don't be discriminating man. That's unChristian of you.



Already did, its called "Insourcing", you know....foreign cheap labor, most without legitimate green cards?



Yeah fuck those 40 million Americans. They aint American enough.



Bullshit is bi-partisan.



A failing of Compassionate Conservatism and liberalism I suppose.



Of course. What you gonna do about it? Nothing. Don't worry, that's my fate as well.



Some countries have free university education...but its budgets with miniscule military expenditures, i.e. Portugal.

We'll never do that.



Yeah, what happened to that in our Republic founded by George Washington and other wealthy men born to prestige and power?



The government and corporations do that. why not us too?



Who exactly are these..."take care of me" people, and where do they live?

C'mon, be honest. We're all a happy family here.

JL, you're one of fathersson's "Do Nothing" People.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Yeah. Well.

Doesn't the government pay for health care for all its employees, the members of Congress, the president and all the military? That seems to work out.

A couple nights ago I read an article while I was at work and I though it was a good read.


Facts