What would Papa do?

Situation: A business associate does someone a small favor. She appreciates the favor, but did not know about the favor or approve of the favor ahead of time. She was present at the time the favor was given, and again it was appreciated.

A couple days later, she runs into the business associate at a social function. He asks if she heard about the favor, and she says yes, and thank you. He then tells her that she can repay somehow later. Hesitating, she says cooly that would alright and fair (reasonable).

Some time later, as she is going through her bills, one of them is a request for $XXX amount in return for this favor that she did not know about, approve, or agree to (although it was appreciated). Cooly, she puts the letter back in the envelope, where it is still sitting on her desk.

Ordinarily, one would simply not pay. She is not legally bound. However, it might be in her best interest to pay, as she would like to keep her business relationship with this person on the up and up. They will be working on a large project together in the upcoming months. His help would be extremely beneficial, although no necessary.

My question is this: How would Papa (Vito Corleone) handle this situation? We know Michael would just do away with him! That is not possible here. She is not the head of any "family." There are no "buttons." And there are no horses to hurt. This may be small potatoes, but they are HER potatoes. There must be a cool way to handle this situation - on her own - without making her feel manipulated into paying, yet keeping a good relationship with this person so that he will help her in the upcoming project. How should she play this one out?

Challenge him to a Mexican styled cock-fight.

Actually, I have no idea. Would this person hold it against you if you just explained yourself/your side of the situation?

But I'd still recommend the cock-fight. You can buy a decent rooster for fairly cheap in certain regions of Tennessee.

LOL
thanks for the idea.

No problem.

So what favor did you receive and how much do you owe?

Angela, this person did NOT do anyone a favor. What they actually did was to perform a service.

When someone does a favor, it is just that, a favor. As far as I am concerned there is no debt owed when a favor is performed. Of course we usually feel indebted, morally, to the person who performed the favor, but only in the sense that somewhere down the road, if that person needed something, we would reciprocate and return the favor. A favor is sort of a barter, a swapping, that is not under any time constraints or obligation in regards to paying it back

And a bill should never be presented for performing a favor.

A bill is only presented for services rendered.

Now regardless of these differences, this person is still in a bind. They have a business relationship that they say needs to keep going.




If this is the case and the business relationship is an important one that may become more beneficial to this person down the road, then they will have to suck it up, pay this bill, and look at it as an investment in their business. Look at it as a cost of doing business. And chalk it off as that.

After all, this is the business they have chosen.

However, in the future they will need to make sure that they are never put into the same situation again by this business associate.

So when this person settles this debt, they really need to let the other party know that while this person truly and sincerely appreciates what was have done on their behalf, that in the future they'd like to know if these kinds of billable favors are going to be attempted before they are actually carried out.

A favor is just that...a favor. This person even referred to it as a favor no??? I don't know how expensive this favor was and/or if it would be worth it to "pay" in order to keep this person's business?????? Perhaps you could approach this person and tell him exactly how you feel (in a business like way of course :)). Maybe he'll understand. If not, then I suppose you need to decide is he worth it or not???? Personally, I don't think I'd do business with him again, but then, I don't know the specifics as you do.

Honesty is usually the best policy. Good luck!!!

TIS

Frankly, I realize you want to keep up a good business relationship with this person, but I would never *pay* for a favor. Especially when the party acknowledges that it is a favor. Repayment for a favor can be something as small as a thank you note, or as much as a reciprocation of similar value (i.e. someone buys you dinner, you later buy them dinner).

However, I find it laughable when, as DC said, someone masks a service as a "favor" and then only later asks you to pay. Not only was this "favor" done without your prior knowledge or consent, but in that case it is undoubtedly upon the shoulders of the person doing the favor to undertake all costs involved, unless you had asked that person to do the favor in the first place, which you did not.

If I were you, I'd go speak to this person privately and just explain that you find that this is less of a favor and more like backdoor extortion - paying for services rendered which you never approved previously but acknowledged when they were received.

Kind of like getting free work done on your house by winning a contest, only to have the contractor send YOU the bill months down the line.

Can we just cut all the technicalities? I don't understand all of this moral jargon. I do, however, understand underground cock-fighting.

Reduce his prized fighting rooster to a feathered mess. He'll get the message.

All depends on how important and profitable that future business relationship really is. If in the long run, the unexpected costs turn out to be nominal in comparison to the big picture, than it should be handled a bit differently and more professionally. If not, then they should be blasted!

Or challenged to a cock-fight.

I think you sould just sleep with him.

By him, I mean LLC, of course.

That's not what I meant by "cock-fight," but I'm not going to argue with you.

Unh, Junior, you better take it any way you can get it.

I'm only trying to help.

I'm assuming when she posted "$XXX," AngelaMarie was implying that the party involved is asking for a considerable sum in the hundreds of dollars range in return for this "favor" (i.e. backdoor extortion). Unless this move has the turnaround profitability of a Nigerian scam (i.e. "pay me $XXX now, and you'll receive $XXXXXXX later!"), I'd say it is not worth it.

Consequently, I'd consider a "nominal" act buying this person a beer or a cocktail; not doling out hundreds of dollars for "services" rendered.

Well JJ, I guess we really don't know becaues she hasn't really provided us with any real details.

But you really cannot put a set price on "nominal."

I look at nominal as in proportion to what the potential upside is.

In other words if the cost for paying off this extortion is $500, but there's a strong potential to make $5000 in another deal with these same people, then the $500 expense in a nominal expense when looking at the overall picture. The risk vs.reward factor is worth it.

If the cost of paying off this extortion is $500, and $1000 is going to be made in another deal with these same people, then the $500 is NOT nominal. The risk vs. reward is not worth it.

I guess so. But the fact that there is talk of being extorted in exchange for some sort of greater monetary return seems wrong to me, in general.

Frankly, I find it terrible that it would even be considered, or that she is being advised to do such a thing.

Given what little we know, even still, no matter what sort of possible returns, I doubt that there can be much money made when this sort of lot are above her in her workplace...

This is a bit complex, AM:
I know you didn't say that you were talking about yourself here, but to make it easier to reply, let's say it's you. If the "business associate" is a fellow employee of the same company as you, and the favor advantages you in that company, than the business associate is violating corporate ethics by presenting a bill. If the associate is your boss, it's technically extortion, and if you pay off, it'll never stop.

If the associate is outside your company, and the favor helped you to get the associate's business (or some other business), the demand for a payoff could be construed as "commercial bribery," which could get both of you into trouble if you paid. The exception might be if the associate posed it as a "finder's fee," and your employer pays finder's fees. But since the associate posited it as a "favor" to begin with, it's on doubtful grounds.

I'll share a broadly (but not directly) parallel experience my wife and I had recently:
Our home had been on the market for about a year but wasn't moving. We told our realtor that we were going with another realtor who had more clout in our town. She got very pissed off and cited the money she'd spent promoting our home (open houses, ads in local papers, brochures, etc.) All of those expenses are out of her (and every realtor's) pocket, and nothing in the contract that we signed required us (or any seller) to pay for them--whether or not the house was sold. She later presented a bill. It was unethical. But, despite her bad behavior, we tried to "do the right thing." We made a substantial donation in her name to a charity that she supported. I wouldn't do that in your case if the "associate" is employed by the same company as you.

As for Vito Corleone: he would have made the "associate" squirm by a subtle show of his greater power. If he weren't more powerful, he'd send Luca.

Or maybe he'd send Sonny, as a test, to see how he would handle it.

TB, that was complete and total extortion by your real estate agent. If your listing with this agent was expired, then she had no right to present such a bill. All of my listing agreements say that my company bears the total cost of marketing the property. The only time a customer can be presented with a bill is if they decide to pull the property from the market.

For example, a couple is divorcing and decide to sell their house. They hire an agent and the agency spends money marketing the property. The couple reconciles and decides not to sell their house, and pulls it off the market prior to the expiration of the listing. The agency then has the right to ask for reimbursement for their marketing costs.

Not only was that unethical, but she could have easily lost her license for that little stunt.

To be fair, she didn't "demand" payment, but she did send an accounting of her expenses, with the expectation that we'd pay some of it.

Personally I see this line blurred all the time. If I am at a social gathering more often than not someone will ask me some inocuous legal question (personally I think it is rude, but it happens) let's say its "My kids are grown, should I change my will?" So I might say, it depends what your present will says, if you have guardians appointed for them when they were minors, you should probably change it, but I would suggest you have someone do some estate planning for you.

That is a favor. I would not bill them for this.

On the other hand, if they then made an appointment to see me in my office to ask the same question, I would have no problem sending them a bill for services rendered.

As for what would Vito do (and by the way this could be a great thread WWVD? someone gives a situation and then people give answers.....in fact the next thing I am going to do is start one

Vito would do this:

Get the person in a room with a third party present. Tell him/her .. First say his/her name twice, then say "How can you show me such disrespect? Some time ago I became aware of a favor you did for me, and for that you have my gratitude. But now you present me a bill for services rendered. This is not the act of a friend. Had you come to me in a time of need and said you needed some money to get you through a hard time, I would have returned the favor, but instead you insult me with this bill for your "services." This I will not pay.

Then if they continue to give you a hard time, find out if they have a pet. Behead it and put it in their sheets.