Virginia Tech shooting

Well Goombah, I am really glad to hear that your friend is physically ok right now, I cannot imagine what she must be going through mentally after experiencing this horrible tragedy first hand. And it must be horrific for her knowing that one of her students was murdered.

You would think with all the money that these colleges charge that they could afford an electronic security system that requires the swiping of an ID card in order to gain access.

I work at a University and the access in and out of these buildings is very easy.

It is a very sad day.

They mentioned the gunman was an Asian (however relevant that is)who had been "looking for his girlfriend," so that sounds about right (the breaking up thing).

Some of the students are saying that after the first shooting at 7:30 this morning that they didn't even go in lock down till after the second round of shooting. That is outrageous.

Yes it's quite possible that they did not go into lockdown right away...

That's how it is here, at WVU. Everyone swipes their card, in the dorms anyway. Or, they're supposed to. Sometimes they're a little lax with it, but usually just after everyone recognizes everyone. But not with classrooms. Anyone from off the street can just walk into a classroom.

It's weird how this kind of crap always happens in April: Columbine, Waco, OK City, and now this. Of course, the OK City bombing was done to deliberately correlate to the Waco thing. I guess all these bastards have a thing for Hitler's birthday month or something. There's got to be a special place in Hell for people like that.

It's weird how this kind of crap always happens in April:

t.s. eliot was right. April is the cruellest month.

This is a tragedy, the depth of which hasn't been felt yet. The youth today live in a much more dangerous world than I did.

Which world are you living in now? Are you an alien from outer space? J/K

I'm sure that there are many lovely things that happen in April as well, like crocuses. Unfortunately, not enough lovely things, it seems.

TIS, I can't imagine that two people, completely unaware of one another, decided to go on a shooting rampage at the same college on the same day. That would seem to defy any odds. However, I also can't understand how one person could shoot up a dorm on the campus, killing and injuring students, and then 2 hours later, simply walk into a classroom building and blow more people away. I just don't understand how either scenario is possible, but one of them sure is, unless it was two people that were working together.

Columbine, which is fast approaching its anniversary date. Although I don't want to speak for him, I believe that Snake was referring to the fact that all of these acts of violence seemed to take place at about the same time of the month of April.

Thanks for the update Goombah. When you say the school was to be open today do you mean they would have had classes? That's utterly ridiculous. Half the campus should still be a crime scene.

Your friend must be a nervous wreck. I don't know what their policy is, but maybe she needs to take some days off and heal herself, if not physically then mentally.

So many are Monday-morning quarterbacking now about the time thing between the shootings. I think we should all reserve judgment until everything's a little better sorted, imho.

So many are Monday-morning quarterbacking now about the time thing between the shootings. I think we should all reserve judgment until everything's a little better sorted, imho.

until the investigation is completed, and people's emotions get somewhat back to normal, it's just not fair to speculate or second guess at this point.

[quote=Snake]
Have they identified the attacker yet?

The problem with that though, is that its close to the end of the semester, and shutting school down for 2 weeks will force people to graduate 2 weeks later.

The Heroes of this tragedy...

One of the professors killed after barricading the door to save his students was also a holocaust survivor. For some reason this makes me intensely sad...can't describe why though: I Don't Think My Teacher Got Out

I seen on Fox news and MSNBC that some campus in Austin Texas was closed due to that they found a threatening note today.

Yes Mig, I saw that too. Unfortunately these things seem to bring all the copycats and wackos out of the woodwork.

Opportunists, that's really all they are. They see this as their chance to be recognized. Trying to capitolize on a tragedy in order to get their 15 minutes of fame and recognition. No coverage, no press, no big deal made, and they'll just fade away fast.

Something tells me that the ER doctors, who yesterday were treating students and removing bullets from their bodies, will in a few days be extracting picket signs from the a$$es of members of the Westboro Church.

Why did this happen, you ask? It's simple. Your military chose to shoot at the servants of God today, and all they got for their effort was terror. Then, the LORD your God sent a crazed madman to shoot at your children. Was God asleep while this took place? Was He on vacation? Of course not. He willed this to happen to punish you for assailing His servants.

Sick Fucks.

Something tells me that the ER doctors, who yesterday were treating students and removing bullets from their bodies, will in a few days be extracting picket signs from the a$$es of members of the Westboro Church.

The sick bastard apparently thought he could write.

I just love it when they use the excuse someone was a loner or depressed when something like this happens. Hell, I certainly was a loner in high school. I didn't have one friend, and I certainly never went to any social functions such as proms, ie. I'd rather get an F in a class then do an oral report. Maybe I need to start going around shooting people.

I'm off Friday, Cardi. Meet me at the train station if you need a hand.

The media should not give these screwballs ANY press whatsoever. This way they'll just crawl back in the hole that they came out of.

They say that none of the people killed was shot less then 3 times each.

What a punk.

How often do you see perfectly happy, social people doing acts of crime of this nature? Most serial killers are misfits in the society, have some psychological problem or the other. So it is natural for people to point out those factors. It is not an excuse or justification. It is just an explanation. Not every loner is depressed or mad enough to go and kill people. Everyone deals with problems differently.

Roommates Describe Gunman as Loner

By MARC SANTORA
BLACKSBURG, Va., April 17 — He was a stranger in a crowd of 26,000. Cho Seung-Hui was even unknown to the young man who for nearly a year slept just feet away from him.

“He was my roommate,” said Joe Aust, a 19-year-old sophomore. “I didn’t know him that well, though.”

Mr. Aust, who was an engineering major, and another student who shared their suite, Karan Grewal, 21, painted a picture of a loner who ate his meals alone in the dining hall and shunned any attempts at friendship.

They never saw him with a girl or any friends for that matter.

But they thought he was just strange. Never in a million years could they imagine him to be the kind of person who would kill 32 other people in a three-hour spasm of violence.

Mr. Cho was identified this morning by officials at Virginia Tech as the man who the day before gunned down professors and fellow classmates in what now stands as the worst rampage shooting in American history.

While his acquaintances were stunned by the news, they did acknowledge, in hindsight, seeing warning signs.

Although Mr. Cho told his roommate he was a business major, the university said today that he was an English major.

Carolyn Rude, the chair of the English Department, said that she had spoken to a professor who taught Mr. Cho and was told that the general impression of him was that he was “troubled.”

“There were signs that he was troubled,” she said. “And the English Department at one point did intervene.”

She said that it related to something he wrote in a creative writing class but did not give details about what was written or what kind of intervention was taken, only that it was some time ago, before she was made chair of the department.

“Sometimes some creative writing class students will say something that unnerves us,” she said. “I know that there was some intervention and I don’t know the particulars.”

She said she had not seen what he wrote and said that she could not make public such personal information about a student.

Without going into the specifics of this case, she said that often when there is an intervention the incident is reported to either the counseling center or the dean of students.

“We are not psychologists,” she said.

If some of Mr. Cho’s teachers were concerned, the students who shared a suite with him were puzzled by him.

Mr. Grewal recalled how earlier in the year someone running for a student council position visited the suite to pass out candy and ask for votes. Mr. Cho would not even make eye contact with him, turning his head away and refusing to make conversation.

The suite is made up of three rooms, each with two students, and a common area with a couch and two chairs. There were no decorations on the walls and the bathroom, in typical college fashion, was littered with discarded soap dispensers and bits of toilet paper. Above the stall was a sign reminding everyone to flush when they were done.

In the corner of the main common area, there were dozens of empty water bottles and Dr. Pepper cans piled. On top of the bottles were at least six beige and blue plastic gloves used by the police as they searched the Mr. Cho’s room last night.

Mr. Grewal said officers were in Mr. Cho’s room, on the second floor of Harper Hall, from 7 p.m. until midnight and they interviewed each of the suitemates.

The police, he said, were surprised that even his roommate knew so little about him.

Mr. Aust was not comfort able showing a reporter into his room, but said the police had taken most of his stuff away anyway. “I know they took his computer,” Mr. Aust said

Mr. Aust spoke just outside his room, on the wall outside the door was Mr. Aust’s name was with that of his roommate, spelled “Sueng-ho,” on an orange cutout of a fish provided to all the students by the resident advisor when they moved in last August.

“He was always really, really quiet and kind of weird, keeping to himself all the time,” he said. “Just of anti-social, didn’t talk to anybody. I tried to make conversation with him in August or so and he would just give one word answers and not try and carry on the conversation.”

He said it was a creepy quietness.

“I would notice a lot of times, I would come in the room and he would kind of be sitting at his desk, just staring at nothing,” he said.

Mr. Aust and Mr. Grewal, 21, said he was often on his computer.

“When he was in the room, he would spend a lot of time on his computer, downloading music and stuff,” Mr. Aust. said. There was no single style of music that he particularly liked in particular, from rock to country to pop.

Mr. Cho was often out of the room.

“He was probably gone more often than he was here,” he said. “I just figured he had classes.”

I can't imagine the depth of that woman's pain. It is every parent's nightmare to have to bury a child. It frightens me to even think that way, as if I was putting a curse on one of my children. I pray that they find some consolation, some way to stay sane. I've always thought that I would rather throw myself in the coffin and go with them, rather than see the light of a day without one of my children.

I'm going to say something, and I'm sorry if it causes controversy. But I think part of the reason for that is because of all of the new ideas in school. You can't play dodgeball because kids feel left out, kids are suspended for WEEKS for fighting, and it leads to things like this. We try and shield them from violence and it doesn't work. I've had problems with tons of people in my life, and I've been in enough hand to hand fights in my life, and you know what? It usually ENDS THERE. The problem is that kids like this don't have that, and they get all of this rage built up inside of them and they have to take it out in ways like this. There are people on this message board who weren't picked for dodgeball, are they mad or depressed people? NO, they got over it and found something else to be good at.

I think not allowing these kids to fight or do something to get anger out is what causes things like shooting someone 3 times. Thats much different then the news report of him just opening fire and the bullets were sprayed, for people to be hit 3 times he had to hold the gun there.

Moral judgment aside, how is that bad writing? He has started writing it like a script with attention to action, then packed in a lot of conversations which is suitable for plays.
I think the play is hilarious, though obviously very unsuitable for a class assignment.

I'm going to say something, and I'm sorry if it causes controversy. But I think part of the reason for that is because of all of the new ideas in school. You can't play dodgeball because kids feel left out, kids are suspended for WEEKS for fighting, and it leads to things like this. We try and shield them from violence and it doesn't work. I've had problems with tons of people in my life, and I've been in enough hand to hand fights in my life, and you know what? It usually ENDS THERE. The problem is that kids like this don't have that, and they get all of this rage built up inside of them and they have to take it out in ways like this. There are people on this message board who weren't picked for dodgeball, are they mad or depressed people? NO, they got over it and found something else to be good at.

I think not allowing these kids to fight or do something to get anger out is what causes things like shooting someone 3 times. Thats much different then the news report of him just opening fire and the bullets were sprayed, for people to be hit 3 times he had to hold the gun there.

A few examples:

"Taking off her shoes she hits him hard"

How does one hit someone hard while you're taking off your shoes?

"He brushes Sue with his large arm and build"

And how do you brush someone with your large arm and build?

How often do you see perfectly happy, social people doing acts of crime of this nature? Most serial killers are misfits in the society, have some psychological problem or the other.

This guy wasn't a serial killer. He was a mass murderer. Serial killers can be more readily profiled.

I would be hardpressed to survive the death of my children. I can't imagine going on. Really.

I could imagine that it would be difficult, TIS. There are 26,000 students, many of them commuters, and there must be students walking all over the campus. However, in 2 hours, how could they not have done anything?? Maybe they don't have a PA system, but they don't have a security staff that has radios and could be dispatched to warn people. The police had been called to the first murder scene. Could they not DRIVE through the campus making an announcement. Do they not have gates at the entrances and exits? Gates that could have been closed to prevent anyone from entering or exiting?

I understand that there would have been major difficulties in locking down a place that large with such an enormous population, but I still have to believe that in two hours, they could have accomplished something.

In both the cases, it is not possible to profile before hand to prevent the crime. It will be like in 'Minority Report' movie then. As Beth pointed out, not all lonely/depressed people commit crimes. Though there are correlations between a child abuse victim turning into a serial rapist, not all survivors end up as sex offenders. It is only in hind sight that we link the two. I think the mapping is one way primarily or at least that is the only thing allowed legally today. I will be very angry if I am forced to undergo some therapy to conform to social mean. Have you seen 'A Clockwork Orange'? I think that movie perfectly sums up what such a society could lead to.

Canceling classes might have been the smartest thing for them to do, half the school would have been off campus and the parts where there WERE students could have had policemen.

I have no idea what he means here. I am not saying he is Shakespeare, but frankly it is not as bad as it was pointed out to be. In fact, I would challenge a lot of people to write 10 pages of play or movie script that is as readable as this. Not as easy as it appears.

It's very hard to "lockdown" a 2600 acre campus. But, there is no excuse for two hours to pass before sending out the first e-mail informing of the shooting that took place at 7:15am.

Olivant, with all due respect, I think that you are going a bit overboard with your analogies.

I understand your point about this campus being so large that it may have been impossible to shut it down or put it into lockdown. And that just might be the case.

However something should have been done by the authorities to prevent some of those deaths. I would like to know what genius in law enforcement assumed that the shooter had left the campus and was on his way to leaving the state? How in the world does a trained law enforcement official make an assumption like that without any hard facts to back up that assumption?

Yes it's very easy to sit on the outside looking in and then play monday morning quarterback. But put yourself in the position of some of these parents. There was over a two hour window between the first shootings and the second round of shootings. And as a parent I would damn well would want answers as to why such a gap existed between shootings without any real attempt to inform or protect the people of that campus.

With all due respect, how would anyone know there was going to be a 2 minute window, a 2 hour window, a 2 day window, or no window?

It's very hard to "lockdown" a 2600 acre campus. But, there is no excuse for two hours to pass before sending out the first e-mail informing of the shooting that took place at 7:15am.

2 hours? George Bush waited 7 minutes to do something on 9/11!!!! This is clearly a vast, right-wing conspiracy to make South Korea look bad, fooling stupid Americans into thinking it was a North Korean who perpetrated this act, and then we can war with them with the neocons in control! Save our civil liberties! Impeach Bush!

[/retard]

Olivant, What is so ridiculous about gates? When I went to college (over 20 years ago), it was a suburban campus with a high number of commuter students. There were gates at each entrance with a security booth. Why is it so ridiculous to close the gates, not to prevent anyone from exiting, but to prevent more people from entering? And while I agreed that it would probably be close to impossible to lockdown a campus of that size, why was there no EFFORT made to do so? The students who lived in the dorm where the first shooting took place were not even informed that a crime had occurred. Why not?

As Goombah said, there is so much effort to minimize crime on campuses that many schools will do all they can to prevent the news from leaking out. God forbid they frighten off future and/or current students!

And if there is a rapist in a dorm, why not at least lock down that dorm? This was a fresh crime scene, and yet students were allowed to come and go. Why were they not even interviewed as potential witnesses? If they thought this was an isolated incident, they why was no effort made to search the dorm to see if the shooter was hiding in a closet?

(Dad died a month ago; McBeef tried to save him; Mom is married to McBeef a month later; bizarre sexual and violent ideations are thrown around like confetti).

however, I believe that we have seen enough of these spree shootings that they are no longer in the realm of the inconceivable.

You're absolutely right. The middle school that my sons attend have given instruction on how to respond in the event a gunman enters the school. These events are becoming too ingrained in the reality of our students.

This attack sadly is not the last school shooting.

We have been talking about this subject in the office here at the Funeral Home and God knows we see enough of these events where people are hurting so badly.
The point that we have come up with is that there is little that people can do when these things happen. They are done, they have played themselves out and we were not in control of any of it. All people can now do to let out their anger is to ask questions. I think most of the quarterbacking comes from frustration of what has happened and the truth is that it is out of our hands. A tuff thing to accept. Does it help to try and find fault somewhere or is it the talking about the subjects that helps us cope?

It's natural for people to ask, What if..." in the face of tragedy.

For anyone who's had a loved one in a car accident, he or she asks:
-What if the weather had been better?
-What if he left 10 minutes earlier?
-What if he didn't have to mediate an apology for Imus?

However, because what's at stake here(the lives of our children) and the knowledge that there was a particularly cruel randomness to the killings and that it will likely recur, it is natural to try to think of anything that can prevent or mitigate the harm done.

While we can't predict every school rampage, we are obligated to learn everything we can to deal with these situations effectively. If one life is spared through vigilance, it's a good thing.

Do we really need this nonsense on a thread about a tragedy?

This just keeps getting better, Mig...

****************************
Student Arrested Over Va. Tech Remarks

Apr 18 03:22 PM US/Eastern



BOULDER, Colo. (AP) - A University of Colorado student was arrested after making comments that classmates deemed sympathetic toward the gunman blamed for killing 32 students and himself at Virginia Tech, authorities said.
During a class discussion of Monday's massacre at Virginia Tech, the student "made comments about understanding how someone could kill 32 people," university police Cmdr. Brad Wiesley said.

Several witnesses told investigators the student said he was "angry about all kinds of things from the fluorescent light bulbs to the unpainted walls, and it made him angry enough to kill people," according to a police report. Witnesses "said they were afraid of him and afraid to come to class with him," Wiesley said.

The student, identified by police as Max Karson of Denver, was arrested Tuesday on suspicion of interfering with staff, faculty or students of an education institution. He had a court appearance set for Wednesday afternoon.

His father, Michael Karson, told the Camera newspaper that the comments may have been misinterpreted and questioned whether his son's free speech rights had been violated.

"I would have hoped that state officials would know their First Amendment better than they seem to," he said.

University spokesman Bronson Hilliard said privacy laws prevented him from releasing personal information about the student.

At Oregon's Lewis & Clark College, another student was detained by campus police Wednesday shortly before a vigil for the Virginia Tech victims when he was spotted wearing an ammunition belt. Portland police later determined that it was "a fashion accessory" made of spent ammunition, and said the man did not have a weapon. The belt was confiscated.

Holy shit. What a sick bastard, huh?

Here is a picture that was in the package the killer sent to NBC.

Without the semiautomatic weapons, he's inconsequential.

I gotta feel for the shooter's parents. I don't know if they were loving parents or not but they lost a son.

Btw, I just heard that one of the professors that was murdered there was a Holocaust survivor. Can you imagine surviving that to get gunned down by some lunatic?

This guy was a true hero!

I figure he was a little bit younger than the kids whom he saved when he experienced the horrors of the Holocaust. I can't even begin to imagine the effect of having survived that had on his outlook towards life, but he went out in a glorious manner (sacrificing his own life so that those placed in his care could live).

As I continue to watch the news coverage of this story I'm becoming more and more upset after seeing the "personal" stories of the victims. This whole thing defines tragedy.

This guy was a true hero!

I figure he was a little bit younger than the kids whom he saved when he experienced the horrors of the Holocaust. I can't even begin to imagine the effect of having survived that had on his outlook towards life, but he went out in a glorious manner (sacrificing his own life so that those placed in his care could live).

As I continue to watch the news coverage of this story I'm becoming more and more upset after seeing the "personal" stories of the victims. This whole thing defines tragedy.

This guy was a true hero!

I figure he was a little bit younger than the kids whom he saved when he experienced the horrors of the Holocaust. I can't even begin to imagine the effect of having survived that had on his outlook towards life, but he went out in a glorious manner (sacrificing his own life so that those placed in his care could live).

As I continue to watch the news coverage of this story I'm becoming more and more upset after seeing the "personal" stories of the victims. This whole thing defines tragedy.

I saw a forensic psychiatrist on TV today that pleaded with the media to stop showing the videos and photos. By showing his picture, the media is giving him EXACTLY what he wanted.

They have given this jerk EXACTLY what he was looking for in brandishing his pictures all over the first six pages.

I'm sure that their first home football game will be a very solemn affair this year, also. Don't forget, that's a pretty big football school.

BUT, in Iraq and other such places where innocents are slaughtered wholesale on a daily basis, hardly a word of condemnation. Anyway...

No, thats inaccurate. Many of us have been protesting the criminal actions of the U.S. Government's illegal invasion and occupation of that country which has resulted inthe deaths and disfigurement of more than 100,000 innocent Iraqis, more than 20,000 American troops who were sent there to fight for nothing, not to mention the trauma it has caused the children of Iraq.

That said, lets keep this thread focused on the tragedy at Virginia Tech.

I saw a forensic psychiatrist on TV today that pleaded with the media to stop showing the videos and photos. By showing his picture, the media is giving him EXACTLY what he wanted.

This past year several residents of both cities have died in tragic circumstances, some murdered. I didn't know any of them. I didn't go to their funerals or interact with their families. The Virginia Tech students are over 1,000 miles away from me. So, what's the difference?

Backlash to the Cho video has some stations pulling it, others limiting it's use. Some victim's families pulled out of interviews with The Today Show over the video.

http://www.comcast.net/entertainment/ind..._vatechshooting

Good for them!

I sent an e-mail to the New York Daily News earlier today in regards to their posting this scumbags picture all over the front and first 6 pages and then printing the story of the brave Prof. on the 7th page. I also informed them that I will not be renewing my subscription. Fuck them.

It's not very hard to lockdown a 2600 acre campus. It is impossible.

I think it's easy to throw the term "coward" round as easily as the phrase "terrible writer" or whatever, from our chairs behind a laptop or desktop, millions of miles, years or wavelengths from the inside of a complex human mind.

Not sure if this guy's a coward. It takes a lot of balls to act upon your forbidden desires.

(Sure, it also takes a lot of balls to talk about them and seek help for what you're feeling.)

I'll give it a few years before there's a film made of it.

The guy with balls is the 76 year old Holocaust survivor

I have no such problem in this case.

I sent an e-mail to the New York Daily News earlier today in regards to their posting this scumbags picture all over the front and first 6 pages and then printing the story of the brave Prof. on the 7th page. I also informed them that I will not be renewing my subscription. Fuck them.

Show the victims, let us get to know them and the loss that they represent to this world. However, don't show the perpetrators. It only glorifies them and encourages others to follow in their footsteps.

Way to go Santino, I'm proud of ya Did you get a responce back from them?

As Bernie Goldberg noted this morning, "It went from 'news' to 'show business.'" Of course, they do this everytime there's a "breaking story" of this magnitude. I can still see the 2 space shuttle disasters over and over in my head as if they occurred yesterday, as well as the images of 9-11 and the OK city bombing. It's like watching the Zapruder film over and over and over.

All of us are failures; we all die.

Nobody wants to be a nobody. All our acts are partly devised to fill or to mask the emptiness we feel at the core.

We all like to be loved or hated; it is a sign that we shall be remembered, that we did not 'not exist'. For this reason, many unable to create love have created hate. That too is remembered.

John Fowles