John Kerry Insults Soldiers!

WASHINGTON (Oct. 31) -- The White House and Sen. John Kerry traded their harshest accusations since the 2004 presidential race on Tuesday, with President Bush accusing the Democrat of troop-bashing and Kerry calling the president's men hacks who are "willing to lie."

The war of words, tough even for this hard-fought campaign season, came after Kerry told a group of California students on Monday that those unable to navigate the country's education system "get stuck in Iraq."

The two parties are searching for any edge amid indications Democrats could take back the House and possibly win control of the Senate in next week's midterm elections. Though neither Bush nor Kerry is on any ballot, the bitterness with which they fought each other as 2004 rivals spilled over as both campaign hard for their parties in a race shaped in large measure by public doubts about the Iraq war.

White House press secretary Tony Snow was asked about Kerry 's comment at his regular briefing with reporters, and had clearly come prepared with a lengthy attack. He said the quote "fits a pattern" of negative remarks about U.S. soldiers from the decorated Vietnam veteran and suggested that whether Democratic candidates -- particularly those running on their military service backgrounds -- agree with their 2004 standard-bearer should be a campaign litmus test.

The White House also released in advance remarks Bush was to deliver later in the day while campaigning in Georgia, in which the president called Kerry 's statement "insulting and shameful." Bush, like his spokesman earlier, said soldiers deserve an apology from Kerry .

"Our troops did not enlist because they did not study hard in school or do their homework," Bush said in his prepared remarks for a former GOP congressman, Mac Collins, who is trying to oust Democratic Rep. Jim Marshall. "The men and women who serve in our all-volunteer armed forces are plenty smart and are serving because they are patriots."

Kerry , who is considering another run for the White House in 2008, angrily fired back.

His statement called Republicans "assorted right-wing nut jobs."

And at a hastily arranged news conference in Seattle, Kerry said: "I apologize to no one for my criticism of the president and of his broken policy."

Kerry said the comment in question was "a botched joke about the president and the president's people, not about the troops ... and they know that's what I was talking about."



It came during a campaign rally for California Democratic gubernatorial candidate Phil Angelides. Kerry opened his speech at Pasadena City College with several one-liners, saying at one point that Bush had lived in Texas but now "lives in a state of denial."

He then said: "You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."That, Kerry said, was meant as a reference to Bush, not troops. Kerry said it is the president who owes U.S. soldiers an apology -- for "a Katrina foreign policy" that misled the country into war in Iraq, failed to adequately study and plan for the aftermath, has not properly equipped troops and has expanded the terrorist threat.

The Massachusetts Democrat called the White House attack "a classic GOP textbook Republican campaign tactic" that reveals Republicans' "willingness to reduce anything in America to raw politics."

"I'm sick and tired of a bunch of despicable Republicans who will not debate real policy, who won't take responsibility for their own mistakes, standing up and trying to make other people the butt of those mistakes," he said. "It disgusts me that a bunch of these Republican hacks who've never worn the uniform of our country are willing to lie about those who did."

Unsubstantiated allegations about Kerry 's Vietnam War heroism from a group called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth figured prominently in the 2004 Kerry -Bush race. Even Kerry has blamed his slow and uncertain response to the group's claims for helping to doom his White House chances, and Democrats viewed the Tuesday fracas as a test of that lesson.

"Enough is enough. We're not going to stand for this," Kerry said. "We are going to stay in their face with the truth."

Other Republicans, sensing opportunity for their side, piled on throughout the day with their own demands for an apology from Kerry .

GOP Sen. John McCain, like Kerry a decorated Vietnam veteran and a potential 2008 rival, said while campaigning for Republican candidates in Indiana that "the suggestion that only the least educated Americans would agree to serve in the military and fight in Iraq is an insult to every soldier serving in combat today."

Added House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., struggling to keep his party in control of Congress: "Our soldiers risk their lives in the face of grave dangers on the battlefield, and no one who chooses to courageously and selflessly defend our country can be considered 'uneducated.' "

Separately, the White House issued President Bush's Veterans' Day proclamation praising those who have served in the armed forces -- a week and a half before the holiday.

Associated Press Writer Michael Blood in Los Angeles, Mike Smith in Indianapolis, and contributed to this report.


10/31/06 16:25 EST

=================================================================

It's scary that this guy had a shot at being the leader of this country. Typical example of undermining our troops. He should be totally ashamed of himself. Then again, this was a guy who ran for office on the "I served in Vietnam" platform, but threw his medals away. Well I wouldn't want to be standing next to him on the battlefield.




Sounds to me like a little more of "I voted for it, before I voted against it."

How can he now try and twist and deny what he said?

What a spinmaster.

Shameful that this man is a United States Senator.



Don Cardi

Cruiser: "I joined the Army because my father
and my brother were in the Army, and I thought I'd better join
before I got drafted."

Sgt. Hulka: "Son...there ain't no draft no more."

Cruiser: "There was one?"

---

Yeah. I guess my two graduating buddies who are enlisting are being forced to volunteer. You mean the army is an all-volunteer army? Maybe somebody should tell John Kerry there isn't a draft anymore.

He said that if you're dumb and cannot make it in school, then your only option is to go and fight in Iraq. So \he's really saying that our soldiers, who have been fighting and have died, were and are stupid people who couldn't make it in school, so they went into the military. He basically said that our soldiers are uneducated.

I have absolutey no respect, wahtsoever, for anyone who bashes a soldier who is out there fighting for his life, and fighting to protect the lives of the same scumbags, scumbags like John Kerry, who undermine them every chance that they get.


What a piece of shit.



Don Cardi

You're kidding me by starting this thread, right? The fact is uneducated people end up in the army. That is an undeniable fact. Inner city kids are the target of recruiters. The military knows they won't go to college because of America's failed education system. The military needs live bodies to go to Iraq because snotty rich Republican kids won't go. Hell, rich Republicans who support the war so damn much should go. But inner city poor with minimal educational experience end up doing the dirty work for rich fat cats.

When posed with either the ghetto or 3 meals a day and pay for grunt work, many choose the grunt work. These people need the money, but no one will hire them because they failed out or were the product of bad schools.

"Our troops did not enlist because they did not study hard in school or do their homework," apparently he didn't study either because that's a double negative and very poorly constructed sentence.

Thanks for posting this, Don Cardi.

I've been hearing about it all day on the radio...including soundbites of Kerry's backtracking, phony, mudslinging, insincere damage-control rant of a spin today which I assume took place on the Senate Floor. What a crock of shit. It was pretty amusing at times how he tried to turn attention away from his own horribly disrespectful attempt at humor at the expense of our troops. He must've been up all night writing that

Incidentally...I happen to believe that Kerry's wretched joke WAS a "...botched joke about the president and the president's people, not about the troops...".

However, it WAS botched, it DID backfire, it WAS completely inappropriate, and yet one more pitiful statement on a list of many...that Kerry should've thought about before letting it pass through his lips. And I'd like to see him and his like-minded party get all the backlash they deserve.

But remember...we have an incredibly left-wing biased media that may just be low enough to try & protect Kerry with minimal coverage.

Apple

The sad thing though is its true. People who have poor educations end up in the military because the people who started the war sure as hell won't fight it.

WTF So what if uneducated people go in the military? What better way to have the government pay for your education and get good benefits. Educated or not at least they have the guts to join up and put their life on the line. God Bless everyone of them. Even college graduates join up and go in as officers. John Kerry can kiss my hubby's Naval retired ass.

Yup. It must be election time.

I forget. Was it you who recently came out with the dumbest statement EVER posted on the BB?

If yes, you just managed to top yourself. If not, then you've stolen the crown off some other poor slob.

First of all, your misguided statement about 'people who have poor educations' isn't true.

Second, even if it were true, the wording of Kerry's statement and the mere fact that he said it is blatantly disrespectful and unsupportive of ALL of our enlisted men and women, serving in Iraq and all over the world, regardless of level of education.

To be honest, I consider the statement beneath even John Kerry. It's much more in line with something Howard Dean would say.

The 2004 Presidential nominee and the Chairman of the DMC. There you have it...the selected VOICES of the Democratic Party.

And yes...someone started a thread over this. You got a problem with that, it's too bad.

I hope threads are being started over this on every message board in America.

Apple

I like how people are just ignoring that this is fact. The military preys on the under educated.

Oh, I wonder why losers who are products of America's failed education system should not be allowed in the military? Something about giving a weapon to an under educated inner city male smacks of sheer stupidity.

Ok, so how many times do I need to say this? Those people are there, under educated, fighting a war started by rich men. There is something basically wrong with that.

Way to take everything out of context "He was insulting our troops! blah blah blah!" No, he's telling the truth, stop freakin out already and figure out how to keep the pedophiles in the Republican party quiet first before you go back on the attack.

- The war is a failure and the American people were lied to
- The Republicans have a lot of nerve to try and make an issue out of this because they have God only knows how many pedophiles running around the Hill. If there's one, then there are more
- People love taking things out of context
- If you love the damn war so much, then show the troops how much you love them and relieve them from the field.

Why am I kidding you starting this thread Johnny? Last time I looked, I was posting from the United States Of America, land of the free, home of the Consitution of The United States Of America. You know, the same constitution that you and your buddies want to quote when advocating the rights of our enemies? You've got to be kidding me here. You want to quote the constitution when it suits your beliefs, but you want to put it away when it protects my rights. Well now that I got that off my chest, let's move on to the subject at hand.

Only uneducated people join the Military? Are you sure about that Johnny? Are you sure that you want to lump all of the Service men and woman into that category?

Yes, it is true that many people who cannot afford a good education turn to the military. I won't deny that. But not ALL soldiers are education deprived or are stupid as you and your buddy Senator Kerry seem to think.

West Point Military Academy requires a four year college education , and a five year active Army commitment. It is probably the most well-known of all commissioning programs, but the hardest to qualify for. To qualify academically at West Point you need to have an above average high school or college academic record.

Are these dumb and uneducated people? I think not.


West Point is just one of many military schools that require a four year college education with above average standards.

But putting all that aside, who the hell are you or John Kerry
( hey, maybe Mad Johnny IS really John Kerry to undermine and belittle the soldiers that are getting blown up on the front lines to protect your ass everyday?

There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for what John Kerry said about our soldiers. You cannot defend him in any way shape or form on this one. Sorry.


Don Cardi

You're a jerk, plain and simple. I never said all, so don't try and ignore the FACT that military recruiters prey on inner city kids. There is a real problem with the amount of under educated people in the army. I'm sure those with college degrees are the minority.

Where in the hell do you get off calling one of the most respected members Don Cardi a jerk? Get off your high horse. Like I said before who cares if the people are educated or not. They get plenty of training before they go to their positions.

He just comes up with stuff to fit his point by mis reading my posts. That is why I said it.

What does that have to do with this issue? Is this the typical way to take the limelight off of what John Kerry said? By bringing up something totally irrelevant to THIS issue?



Whether Amricans were lied to or not, that is not an excuse for what John Kerry said to undermine the the soldiers that are still fighting a war over there. A compeltely different issue that has absolutely nothing to do with what was said.



You see, to you it is a political party issue. To me it's an issue about supporting the troops. Doesn't matter to me if a republican or a democrat said this. For me, politcal party is NOT the issue. It is a disgusting thing for ANYONE to say and do to the troops, period.



Explain to me how this was taken out of context? All you have to do is listen to or read what Kerry said. It's basic comprehension. Common sense. How can you not comprehend what was clearly said? Hey, being that you can't seem to comprehend what was said, according to John Kerry you're now qualified to fight over in Iraq!



Where did anyone HERE say that they love the war? For that matter where was it said HERE that they even support the war? Wasn't it John Kerry who said that one can support the troops without supporting the war? Well what happend to that spin?

Talk about Blah Blah Blah.

Yeah yeah, I know, he voted for it before he voted against it.

NO EXCUSE!!!!


Don Cardi

- Republicans are spinning this against Kerry

- I was saying this. I was not addressing anything you said exactly. Its ok to bring other thing into a conversation. Its not cool to make people's statements fit your theories

- It is a party issue. Otherwise, Kerry would have never made the statement

- His statement was targeted at the fact the education system in America sucks

- Love the troops by bringing them home

I'm a jerk and the soldiers are uneducated and stupid. You people just LOVE to make personal attacks when you cannot debate or argue the issue intelligently with facts.


Johnny, if you can't debate the issue without the infantile name calling and personal attacks, then please, move on to another thread and leave the debating here to the mature people.


Don Cardi

You're the one who loves to just make what I say fit your argument when it doesn't and ignore the points that I've made. Keep trying to ignore that the education system in America sucks and the military preys on poor individuals.

If a Republican had said the same thing wouldn't the Democrats be spinning also?

But that is beside the point what that man said was disgusting and wrong.

Cardi asked a question and that was my reply. See above

Hey, maybe you are right. Maybe you just proved your own point about the education system with your satement above. Because if you really had comprehended what I said in a post I made above, you wouldn't have made this statement.



Johnny, it is quite obvious that you are trying to turn this into a personal arguement because you refuse to stick to the topic itself. I am not interested in your name calling and your ridiculous finger pointing. So again, if you cannot refrain from the name calling and the personal attacks, then please do not bother to participate in this discussion.


Don Cardi

Cardi, you can not debunk anything factual I have said, so stop trying to stop me with your lame posts.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/recviolations.htm

And to underline how BAD education is in America, look at how you can buy an essay about it for your class!
http://www.cheathouse.com/essay/essay_view.php?p_essay_id=6902

Way to delete your post, but here is my reply anyways:

Throw away your right wing non sense and realize that the poor are abused, the education system in America sucks and poor uneducated people are ending up in Iraq. That's the issue. People with bad educations do end up in Iraq.

Those links proved what I said. Now try and prove what you said. I'm not Kerry, but he raised an issue.

I delted my reply because your links prove nothing. The facts that you try to provide just may be facts, but they are not facts that support how John Kerry undermines the soldiers and John Kerry's dis of the troops over in Iraq.




Want a bigger shovel?



Don Cardi

Um, quoting me out of context just proves you are a jerk. Keep going!!

Because those are the facts you're supposed to look for. I can't research for you. He made a comment about America's education system and I continued that idea.

Regardless of whether or not its true, what Kerry said was despicable. A 4.0 GPA doesn't mean shit on the front line. Kerry should be ashamed of himself.

And Mad Johnny, if you can't debate respectfully and without resorting to name calling, then don't debate. The moderators put these rules here for a reason.

Maybe we could discuss this in a separate thread, but in my experience, the American education system is very good.

[quote][/quote]"You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

Sooooo.....'John Kerry insults soldiers' by comparing them to college drop outs?

Seems to me he was trying to encourage a bunch of junior college students to work hard and seek admittance to a 4 yr school. To learn about science or the arts or auto mechanics, SOMETHING, ANYTHING other than how to carry your buddies brains around in your back pack over in Iraq.

For F*CKS SAKE people go to your local college/university and you will have no problem finding the army/marine recruitment center. They are recruiting ANYONE AND EVERYONE and college kids are just as prone b/c they need money too. But no matter how political Kerry's comment might have been, he is simply saying 'even though college may seem hard and the rewards at times not worth it, stick with it and don't go to Iraq and kill babies and get your legs blown off even though the army will pay you $40,000 for your trouble.'

However Kerry does need one of those ear pieces Bush always wears or atleast a new political consultant


EDIT-[Expect a Bush/Kerry skull and bones thread tommorow ]

I DIGRESS

EDIT--NONE OF THIS PERTAINS TO THE THREAD
But West Point IS the four year college education. Going there is like going to college. EDIT-generally you dont go to college then west point, you do one or the other.

They have the same minimum requirements as most standard universities and from what I understand gaining admission to West Pt is as simple as meeting college requirements and commiting to the military.

HOWEVER, what they and the military in general these days produce looks more like your pizza boy than Stonewall Jackson or George Patton.

Thats your opinion, ask a professor or someone else in academics and they will tell you the American education system has for the last 80 yrs been designed to produce workers not scholars. "And your neighborhood and family must be in the top 10% of the nation, b/c my parents are in the bottom 90% and more than a majority of my classmates fail standardized tests each and every year."


NEVERMIND

You know something? I read these boards quite a bit, and as you can see I don't post very much. But when I see a person who is supposed to be one of the leaders of our country, come out and say what he said about our troops, during a time of war, it just makes me angry. Yes it is a fact that many of the people who the recruiters go after are from less fortunate areas of the country. And while that may be true it does not really mean that those people are uneducated or ignorant. Throughout history there have been many people who have not even received anything over an eighth grade education, and yet many of those people went on to be famous inventors, to have successful buisnesses. So the unschooled education theory is not always a correct one. Of course we should try to achieve the highest level of schooled education possible to help us move on in life, but not everyone has that kind of opportunity or desire. Does that make those who are not fortunate enough to have the ability to achieve the best schooled education possible uneducated? Hardly not. I've been fortunate enough to have spent time with returning soldiers from Iraq and Afghanastan on several occasions and I must tell you that those who I have been with and have come to know were very educated as far as I am concerned. They are far from being stupid or ignorant. Perhaps if Senator Kerry took the time to meet some of these people he would realize that they have experienced things at such a young age that most of us will never experience in a lifetime. Perhaps if Senator Kerry took the time to listen to them, he would realize that they've learned things from their experiences that even the highest level of schooled education could not teach them. The senators remarks were totally uncalled for.

Getting into West Point is not as simple as you may think it is. To get into West Point you need an excellent high school average, you need to be a very well rounded person and you need to be highly recommended. Many of the West Point enrollees have been recommended by former graduates of West Point. You cannot just aplly to West Point and get in there like you would a noraml community college. Most West Point graduates maintain a grade point average of 4.0 or higher, and some of the miltary's best officers are former West Point graduates. It is quite obvious that you are not familiar with the requirements needed for getting into West Point and that you are not familiar as to the quality graduates that West Point produces.

AGAIN WE DIGRESS but.....



[quote=NYC Goodfella]
Getting into West Point is not as simple as you may think it is. To get into West Point you need an excellent high school average, you need to be a very well rounded person and you need to be highly recommended. You mean meet college requirements? Thats what I said.

You cannot just aplly to West Point and get in there like you would a noraml community college. No I guess not since ANYONE who has graduated from high school and can pay tuition can go to community college.

Most West Point graduates maintain a grade point average of 4.0 or higher, -- maybe but its not a requirement to remain at the university. I obviously never said that there were not any fine students at West Point(all colleges have students who maintain 4.0 )

and some of the miltary's best officers are former West Point graduates. ya I mentioned the two greatest generals ever in my above post

It is quite obvious that you are not familiar with the requirements needed for getting into West Point Thats what I said earlier. However on a personal note I do tutor potential college students, so I am VERY FAMILIAR with the academic requirements of admission there. And a cpl of these students have gone to one of the military schools despite NOT gaining acceptance into any of the major state schools. As far as the good ol' boy network and letters of recommendation are concerned, no, I have never applied and had to go through the process. Have you???

Mad Johnny -

You can't do this! You can't do this! You can't do this!

If in doubt, read the line above.

Nobody is expecting you to hold back from offering a different opinion on ANY subject but you are breaking the board's rules of conduct by posting such garbage as you wrote (above). You simply cannot make a personal remark attacking a fellow member. You make yourself look REALLY bad when you resort to name-calling.

If you feel you cannot abide by this basic rule I suggest you stay out of these political discussions.

I have family members, who've attended West Point and the admissions standards are clearly rigorous. Moreover, a cadet or midshipman is held to high standards just to maintain his or her standing in the academy.

That said, while on its face Kerry's statements appear insulting to the heroes who are fighting in Iraq because of their commitment to serve America, not a mental deficiency, I honestly do not believe that he intended his statement to refer to soldiers. Prior to the comment, he had been addressing what he perceived to be failures of Bush, and when he said, "you end up in Iraq," I believe he meant it as saying a lack of education, knowledge, wisdom or learning can result in unwise decisions, such as the decisions that got us involved in Iraq. I think it would have been much clearer if he said, "You end up getting us in Iraq."

Nonetheless, he should apologize for any misunderstanding. I don't think it will have any effect on the elections.

DC,
Everyone here knows of your support of the troops over in Iraq. I support them, too. After all, I am grateful that they are over there, putting their lives on the line. However, my heart breaks for them and their families, because I disagree with this war (well, pretty much any war).

However, I don't think that John Kerry meant this the way that it came out. And, yes, unitnentioned or not he owes the TROOPS an apology by making a remark that was open to such an interpretation. I think this is an attempt by BOTH parties to put a negative spin on something the week before election day.

And although I STRONGLY disagree with the name-calling and the negative posts that Mad Johnny made, because I believe they were disrespectful, I think that he made a valid point that was buried underneath a pile of refuse.

It's ALWAYS been the poor and uneducated that have fought wars. If you go back and look at our troops, I'm sure that many of them chose the military because they felt that they had no other choice. I would bet that they are mostly poor, uneducated, come from an area with high unempolyment, etc. That does NOT mean that it's a BAD choice. It does not mean that they are stupid. It doesn't mean that this might not offer them a fine career and/or a way out of an otherwise dead end. I simply believe that many chose it because they felt themselves out of other options.

Please, I caught him trying to force what I was saying to meet his own ends and I called him a jerk for it. He went ahead ignoring the factual points I made. After I called him a jerk (and its not like jerk is a terrible God forbidden swear word) for acting like one and after I addressed all his points, he still refused to actually engage in actual discussion.

He kept rolling along like any point I made did not matter.

I repeated myself several times. I think its unfair to say that calling someone a jerk is a bad thing because people have called others much worse without raising the interests of the moderators.

Mad Johnny, personal insults are a no-no on this board, end of story. And what ends up happening when you make them is that your point gets lost.

Psssh, that's not an insult. This is a witch hunt. I've seen a hell of a lot worse. But ooooo, I called DC a jerk and it gets immediate attention.

Where do we draw the line? At "idiot"? "Moron"? "Retard"?

Its not a debatable point. We simply can't allow any personal attacks. We're trying to maintain some decorum and rise above many message boards that allow such trash talking. Its virtually impossible to police every single reply and its likely some unfortunate responses did slip past the moderators but that doesn't make them right.

You're not being singled out, MJ. ANY member caught making an attack-type reply will be reprimanded, and if it continues, will be dealt with accordingly.

I understand what you're saying. I know personal attacks are bad. But c'mon man, since when has the word "jerk" in the 21st century constituted a flagrant insult?

It wasn't meant as the attack its been made out to be. If I wanted to attack him, then I wouldn't have used "jerk." I would have used something less 1950's.

Its not just the word "jerk" thats an issue here (although thats not a nice thing to say to someone). Its more that you're resorting to making a reference to the person to whom you're responding rather than arguing your differing viewpoint. When you do that you lose credibility.

When responding in writing we lose the intonation of the voice and a few other communicative skills. We have to take the written word as what you're trying to say as "gospel".

Again, I reiterate, (and for the last time) if you feel you can't stop yourself from making these types of replies simply stay out of these discussions.

White House-and Dems-want Kerry Apology

By JENNIFER LOVEN, Associated Press Writer
34 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - A few Democratic candidates joined Republicans Wednesday in pressing John Kerry to apologize for a comment critics said appeared disrespectful of U.S. troops as several Kerry campaign appearances were canceled.

"Whatever the intent, Senator Kerry was wrong to say what he said," said Democratic Rep. Harold Ford (news, bio, voting record) Jr., running for Senate in Tennessee.

"Sen. Kerry's remarks were poorly worded and just plain stupid," said Montana Senate President Jon Tester, a Democrat trying to unseat GOP Sen. Conrad Burns (news, bio, voting record). "He owes our troops and their families an apology."

"I'm sorry he did what he did. But I think the issue ... we want to make sure it doesn't confuse the subject of the war in Iraq," Democratic Rep. Ben Cardin, running for Senate in Maryland, said on CNN.

The White House didn't back down from its call for a Kerry apology. White House press secretary Tony Snow said Kerry "put gasoline on the fire" of an already sizzling midterm election campaign. And the Republican National Committee released a Web ad, to be e-mailed to GOP activists and state party officials, called "Apologize."

"Sen. Kerry may have botched the line, but what he said was insulting to the troops, and what he ought to say is, 'Look, I botched the line, but I'm sorry for giving offense,' " Snow said on CBS's "The Early Show."

At issue is Kerry's comment, to a group of California students on Monday, that people unable to succeed in the U.S. educational system would likely "get stuck in Iraq." Kerry says he merely botched a speech line written to be critical of Bush, while Republicans seized on it as evidence of troop-bashing by the Democratic party's 2004 presidential nominee.

The backdrop for the fiery exchange evoked memories of Bush and Kerry's bitter 2004 race for the White House, and injected last-minute fireworks into a taut midterm election fight between Republicans trying to cling to control of Congress and Democrats striving to win it back.

With each party looking for any advantage in a race expected to turn in large measure on the unpopular war in Iraq, Kerry campaign appearances in Iowa, Minnesota and Pennsylvania were canceled.

A spokesman for Democratic congressional candidate Bruce Braley in Iowa said Braley had decided independently to cancel an event with Kerry scheduled for Thursday. Braley, who is running against Republican Mike Whalen, said in a statement that the White House and Kerry should stop bickering and focus on how to change course in Iraq.

Meredith Salsbery, a spokeswoman for congressional candidate Tim Walz, said Kerry made the final decision but acknowledged campaign officials were worried that the controversy would distract from his effort to unseat incumbent Republican Rep. Gil Gutknecht (news, bio, voting record).

Kerry spokesman David Wade confirmed he no longer would appear at a Philadelphia rally on Wednesday for Democratic gubernatorial candidate Bob Casey.

"We made a decision not to allow the Republican hate machine to use Democratic candidates as proxies in their distorted spin war," Wade said.

Kerry, meanwhile, sought frantically to contain the damage — to his party in next week's elections and his own potential repeat run for the White House in 2008. He and some Democrats viewed the fracas as a key test of a lesson learned in the 2004 race — that he responded too slowly when hit with unsubstantiated allegations about his Vietnam war record from a group called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

Kerry's office released a supportive statement from retired Lt. Gen. Claudia J. Kennedy, the first female three-star general in the Army and a supporter of his 2004 bid against Bush. "When it comes to Iraq, he's right to stand up against baseless attacks, and right to keep fighting for a better course for our troops and our country," she said.

Sen. Chuck Schumer of New York, head of the Democratic campaign effort, called the White House attacks on Kerry an effort by Bush "to divert attention from his failed Iraq policy."

"Instead of going on television attacking John Kerry and everyone else under the sun, the president ought to be sitting at his desk coming up with a plan for Iraq," Schumer said.

The head of the Democratic party also downplayed Kerry's remarks. "Kerry made a blooper. Bloopers happen," Howard Dean told reporters in Burlington, Vt.

Snow said Kerry — not the White House — was the one who "whipped this up into a big issue."

Bush, campaigning in Georgia Tuesday night, said Kerry's statement was "insulting and it is shameful" hours after Snow unleashed a harsh attack on the Massachusetts senator.

Kerry told a hastily arranged news conference in Seattle: "I apologize to no one for my criticism of the president and of his broken policy."

But he also said the comment was "a botched joke about the president and the president's people, not about the troops ... and they know that's what I was talking about."

What Kerry said Monday at a campaign rally was this: "You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

A Kerry spokeswoman, Amy Brundage, said later that the senator's prepared text had called for him to say: "Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq. Just ask President Bush."

Sen. John McCain (news, bio, voting record) said Wednesday he wasn't sure "how you could construe" Kerry's comment as a joke. Calling Kerry "my friend," the Arizona Republican said, "I've found that if it is just a botched joke then apologize and move on."

"As it stands, he owes an apology to the men and women who are serving in Iraq out of patriotism and love of country, not because of any academic deficiencies," McCain said on ABC's "Good Morning America."

Exactly. It is not that I didn't respect your point or understand your point. However, once you decided to get personal with me, it was at that moment that you lost all credibility in my eyes and your point no longer mattered to me or deserved a response.

Rolling right along now.


SB, I respect what you are saying. But the issue of whether this war should have or should have not been fought is irrelivant to what John Kerry said. And if John Kerry really did not mean it to come out the way that it did, that's fine and dandy, but he still owes the troops an apology.

As for the dems and the repubs using this for political advantage, well why should this be any different than any other issue that they've both tried to manipulate in the past? Do you really expect anything different from these politicians? There all a bunch of selfish bastards who will try and manipuilate any situtation to score points for their own party, and belitte the other party.

As for the issue of how and where the military recruits their potential candidates, well look back at some of my posts and you'll see that I do not deny this. What I do deny though is the insistance by some that most in the military are from uneducated backgrounds. We are one of the, if not the most powerful militaries in the world and through the years our Miitary has raised the bar on the kind of people that they now want serving in the Military. This is not like it was 20 - 30+ years ago where the military took anybody and everybody that walked into a recruiitung station. These days, as someone ese pointed out, they are looking for higher standards from their potential recruits. Hey, as somone pointed out in trying to argue this issue with me, the recruiters can now be found in many different colleges across the country. That alone proves to me that they are looking for smarter and better educated people to serve our country.


Don Cardi

Good call, Chuck. Who voted for HJ 114? Oh, that's right. Now shut the fuck up.

OK, Gospel? This is an internet message board. Since when is anything anyone says taken as their own personal beliefs?

I think people need to relax for a second. Before I even uttered the now forbidden phrase, he had already twisted what I said. I called him on it. At least I had the balls to stand up and be an individual instead of running with the herd.

My original "gospel" statement (in quotes) refers to a statement meant as the truth. What you write is meant to be taken as the truth as you see it.

Regardless of how someone else takes what you say (even if you perceive it as being twisted) you have no right to make a personal attack.

What about that don't you understand?

John Kerry has a very bad case of foot in mouth disease, and this is not the first time he has said something stupid that got him into trouble. For example "I voted for it before I voted against it." Sheesh...and I had to shut up and support the guy.

Since he is a former Naval Officer and a decorated combat Vet, I'll take him at his word that he meant to say something to the effect that if you don't study history you'll get US stuck in Iraq...and that he was taking a shot at Bush, and not the troops. Look he's not THAT stupid. Nevertheless he should apologize for offending anyone and he should then shut up, go home, go indsurfing or whatever he does, and stop his delusional thinking that he has a remote chance to ever be anything more than the Senator from Massachusetts.

The severity of the name you called Don Cardi isn't the issue here. It's the fact that you resorted to personal attacks in general.

Is jerk a super duper bad word? No, of course it isn't, but that isn't the point. You resorted to personal attacks, which is a no no. I don't know why that's so hard for you to understand.



Yea...it takes a big set of balls to call somebody a jerk on a public forum. Puh-leeze!

DC, As for Kerry apologizing to the troops, I already said that in my original post, so we are in 100% agreement there.

However, I stand by what I said regarding the makeup of the military forces. Is the military TRYING to recruit from college campuses? Of course they are! As their electronic equipment gets more and more sophisticated, so will their recruits need to be.

However, my nephew joined the military after flunking out of college. Fortunately, he finished his three years in 2002. The recruiters were merciless. The brochures and films show pictures of soldiers training in Hawaii, they promise all sorts of things, and they push, push, push. Now, I'm not saying that's not their job, but this was a confused kid who was trying to figure out what to do with the rest of his life. Needless to say, he found Fort Hood and Fort Benning to be quite a bit different than Hawaii. Also, he was promised skills that he could take with him when he left the army. You know where they put him? Armament repair (fixing tanks). THERE'S a skill that transitions well to civilian life.

And who were the folks that he went to basic with? The young guys were mostly like him, drifting and looking for a place to land. The older ones were mostly from small, depressed towns who had been downsized out of employement. Does that make up the entire military? Doubtful, but I think it makes up a lot.

What is it with people....they have to keep bashing the poster being corrected by the mod.

Come on...stay out of it and let SC handle the problem. Puh-leeze!

What in this world does it matter if the people in our armed forces has a college degree or not? The bottom line is that they joined up.



Do you think that these terroists care that our troops there have a college degree or not?

Of course not, Mig. And I certainly don't mean it as a negative towards the troops. What I was trying to say is that there was a valid point made in an earlier post, and it got buried.

If we were to concentrate on the original topic, I believe that Senator Kerry made a stupid remark, but I don't think he did so deliberately. I think he mis-spoke. And it really doesn't matter, because what he said was taken by some as an insult to our troops, so he should apologize to the troops if he unintentionally insulted them.

I read that he canceled 3 campaign events. Good now maybe he will shut the hell up.

It's doubtful. He is, after all, a politician.

well look for your ear plugs then

The army also provides excellent opportunities for graduating or current college students as well, including paying off loans as well as signing bonuses and salary. It also gives them experience, and real-life credibility.

So your nephew was a college failure who went to the army as a last resort? Okay. I'm missing the problem here - either he ends up on the streets, perhaps living off of welfare and never earning a living wage, sucking off the system, or he pulls himself up by the bootstraps and makes something of himself.

So armament repair isn't a skill he could use? I didn't realize there wasn't a need for good auto mechanics, or the dozen-or-so other things he could do with such experience. Then again, judging by his previous academic inclinations, is it surprising he was "relegated" to armament repair rather than something like computer systems?

For kids who would otherwise end up as criminals or social despots, the army can give them a chance. I for one am tired of the shameless victimization of these kids who make a voluntary decision to sign up. Most of the time it isn't even these volunteers who are complaining - as is evident here. The army gives people an opportunity to make something of themselves, real life experience, and a way to serve their country.

Regards,
Double-J

While I have never applied to West Point, I have inquired about their admissions process and their requirements for attending their academy. I also personally know two people who have applied to the school, and as a matter of fact one of them just graduated and has gone on to fulfill the military part of his agreement. So while I don't claim to know everything about what's required and what's expected from an applicant to West Point, I do have a fairly good idea as to what's required to get into West Point and somewhat of an idea of what it takes to maintain good academic standing while attending West Point.

To address the issue of what John Kerry said, well he may have or may have not intended to dis the troops. But as Sicilian Babe correctly pointed out in her post above, either way he does need to apologize to the soldiers that are fighting on the front lines of a very hard and cruel war. To me it should not matter if a person supports the war itself or doesn't support the war. Either way we all must support the people who are over there fighting the war. Supporting a soldier who is fighting in a war should be the top priority during wartime. As civilians who are not walking in the boots of those soldiers, we should not make the same mistakes that were made by the people back home during the Vietnam war by blaming or dissing the soldiers who are over there fighting. We need to support them no matter what. It is important that the enemy sees that the American people are behind the troops. And it is even more important that the soldiers know that the American people are behind them so that they can go out on the battlefield with confidence, defeat our enemy, and get back home safely.

Double J, Once again you have misinterpreted one of my posts. I think that the Army offers some wonderful opportunities for people who may have none. I'm grateful that my nephew was able to learn some discipline. Otherwise, he probably would've ended up being a leech of some sort. However, he was not "certified" as a mechanic. He was NOT given training or anything else that he was able to take with him.

The reason I mentioned it at all is that there were people here who feel that the army has changed its demogrpahics, and that the poor and uneducated do NOT make up its ranks. I disagree, and shared a personal experience that I felt supported my beliefs.

Experience? Mechanical training? Discipline? I suppose those are skills that he can't "take with him."

And as far as the demographics go - I don't think anyone said that the army doesn't have poor or uneducated people in it. But I think you're overstating your nephew's case and understating the benefits of a tenure in the armed services, purposefully or not.

Best,
Double-J

BRAVO! BRAVO! BRAVO!

This is in reference to NYC Goodfella's post

CNN reports that Kerry has formally apologized for his comments.
Now he needs to go home, have some wine with Teresa, go windsurfing, and forget about presidential ambitions.

OBAMA '08!!!!!!!!!!

A Democratic candidate who is black?

Strom Thurmond is rolling over in his grave, which I hear still is located in the Capitol building, and known to still vote on some issues.

I can see it now...

Mortimer: "Are we going to let a n*gger run our family business?"

You do realize that in 1964, Thurmond became a Republican as he felt that party best reflected his views on race.

You know what, Double J? I find it amazing that you can take things completely out of context over and over again. I said that I was sure that the military offered wonderful opportunities, especially to those that have none. You once again, deliberately or not, twisted my words and their meaning by taking one sentence out of what I wrote and adding your little rolly eyes. Typical.

Of course. But he'll always be a Dixiecrat to me!

Then again, I could always pull out Robert Byrd again. Where's my hood? Somebody get me a crucifix and some lighter fluid!

SB, now you know how I felt with DC.

Didn't Strom Thurman have a black kid?

Perhaps, but Double J and I didn't resort to posting personal name-calling either. We might've thunk a few, but that's a different story...

You also said:






So, let's see if Mr. Rollyeyes can get this right.

• You're nephew flunked out of college.
• He was recruited by the Army, and enlisted under his own will.
• You qualify his enlistment by discussing the relentless nature of the recruiters, and then (inherently) suggest that they misled him with talk of learning a skill and going to Hawaii.

And I responded by stating that your nephew DID receive valuable skills, and is better off for his service than he would be on the streets as a social despot and criminal.

I responded by stating that the skills he had learned (mechanical or otherwise) were certainly valuable in civilian life, despite your assurances that they weren't.

You tried to cover your arse by qualifying your previous statement with the "wonderful opportunities..." post. And you claim that I'm taking you out of context, which is pretty impossible, since I responded to your main points (except for Hawaii...oh well. Maybe they only send the rich Yale graduates there, the rest go to Fort Dix...).

So once again, I respond by pointing out the fallacy of your argument.

And your response is what? That I've twisted your words and taken you out of context, yet again.

Okay. Now that we've summed that up, here's a thought. Try re-reading what I wrote again.

Regards,
Mr. Rollyeyes

Also, everyone is falling behind the wag the finger "personal attack" nonsense instead of actually contributing.

In addition, I fully grasped what SC said, but then he posted that I didn't. I think its pretty apparent that I knew what he meant by "Gospel."

Do I even have to mention the years of posts that exist (now in cool archive format!) of JJ ripping Patrick to hell and no one doing anything about it?

So don't give me the "stuff slips through" line. I could have called anyone else [insert forbidden word] and got away with it. Not to mention it probably all went down like this:

DC- Starts topic
JJ- Agrees
MJ- Disagrees
DC- Ignores MJ's points, continues on
MJ- Calls him on it
DC- Complains
MJ- Doesn't care
DC- Post an even more ridiculous reply
MJ- Responds
DC- Deletes post, complains to moderators

Poopyface!

Personal name calling? I don't even know him so how could it be personal?

Windbag!

Sanctimonious snotface!

Obstreperous worldling!

Try re-reading what I wrote.

I never said that the military DIDN'T provide many, many good things. I simply said that I believe that the military strongly recruits the poor and uneducated, which was refuted by another member. I used a personal anecdote to bolster my statement, stressing that they use some unfair practices, but, hey, that's their job. They're selling something, and they have the right to use forms of persuasion.

What you don't seem to understand is that I don't disagree with anything that you posted about what a person can gain from being in the military. You are under the impression that I do. That's all I'm tryin to tell you, and you seem to think that I keep trying to say something else. BUT I'M NOT!! And that's why I felt that you twisted my words. Because I was not trying to argue or disagree with you!!

JJ what the FU*CK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??

College dropout ends up on the streets? Is that the speech you give to incoming freshman at your school?

That should keep them away from the kegs eh?

And my point is that your anecdote isn't really fair or correct.

Malfeasant twit!

JJ, its obvious people have a case of the Mondays

Degenerate ape!

So kids that are uneducated and have no inclination to work don't end up as criminals and social despots?

It's a personal anecdote, which makes it subjective. It relates a personal experience, which also makes it subjective. Hence, you can take what you want from it.

Obviously, someone hasn't read Kant

You self-exalting swamp of nauseating pig urine!

Hegelian twerp!

But your implication (that the Army reneged on their "promise") isn't fair. They gave him a skill. What he does with it is up to him, and his self-inclination.

You putrescent mound of sun-ripened bowel movements!

You Oedipus!

Sooo....college dropouts end up as criminal and social despots? How would you classify high school dropouts and kids who have kids before they are 16 then??

NEVERMIND I THINK THAT WILL DO

Guilty as charged.

Malicious excuse for a repugnant feline rectum!

Babies having babies.

Freud & Lacan lover!

Depraved festering lump of infected white-blood cells!

Of course Micheal Dell dropped outta college.



Jeeez...you really are an academic.



BY THE WAY: JJ your alter egos have been cutting up a bit in the GF thread. May wanna talk to 'them' about that.

Son of a Pope!

And now he has thousands of Arabs and Indians working under him building insufficient and oversimplified computers with a poor customer service base.

Hell, Ted Kennedy got thrown out of Harvard. That should be enough for anyone to strive to get a degree.

NO!!!!

You...you...you...CATHOLIC!

Fiddiln' Ben!

I can't quit you!

You insufferable cake of decomposed parrot droppings!

Either that or he can ya know....get a job like the other 99% of the world who don't even make it college.

WOW you need to get outta the office

Hall and Oats fan!

I didn't realize the world only had a 1% unemployment rate?

I didn't realize the world only had a 1% unemployment rate?

No but since about only 1% of the world goes to the college, then applying your logic the rest of the world must be social despots living on the streets.

Hysterical photo posted on Drudge Report. Troops answer John Kerry's remark. I can't figure out how to pull it so here's the link. Enjoy it while it's there!!!

http://www.drudgereport.com/

Apple

Here you go Apple...:)

THANKS, Luca...!!!

Where did you get this statistic? Infowars?

Pfft!

Yardbirds fan!

Stinky!

Thou dissembling elf-skinned apple-john!

You made in Japan pre-fab!

You Dog-the-Bounty-Hunter Future Criminal!

You're a regular star on COPS!

You're an extra poolboy stunt-double for the cast of Desperate Housewives!

If he apologized, then that's it. No need for further discussion about what he said.

Now if I had to go home to Theresa Kerry and look at her, I'd have about 3 bottles of wine BEFORE I even got home!


Don Cardi

Aw, gee, DC, just when the posts on the last pages have been so intellectually stimulating.

And to think, one of those intellectuals ( ) had the balls to call me a jerk! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.



Don Cardi

The same intellectual who has to talk about "The Breakfast Club" in his signature? The same one who thinks we talk about him during the Breakfast Club Meetings hahaha

Can I play devil's advocate and ask did he mean it or was it a ploy?

Who meant what?

Breakfast Club?? What's that??

John Kerry's apology

"JOHN KERRY...now he loses elections he's not even in!" - Samantha Bee, DAILY SHOW

Well... we can all agree that Kerry has the charisma of a dirt clod. Pretty lousy joke. Must have been written by Leno's staff.

Kerry really is helping the Republican party now though. Gives them something to focus on and divert our attention a week before elections. Meh, what can you do?

All I know is, the elections are irrelevant. Term Limits would do so much with helping to get rid of corrupted long-standing figures in the government. Really, you all know I'm right. Even DJ agrees with me.

Why are the elections irrelevant? No political will in other party or even the administration to pull troops from Iraq, or even to get MORE troops (i.e. American, since Iraqi troops are like the Kansas City Royals to our St. Louis Cardinals), since no way any Democratic-held House(if the polls and Robert Novak hold true on tuesday) or a Republican Senate will have the guts or gaul to say that we need a military draft.

We keep trying to install a plurality democracy in a place that increasingly seems to be unable to accept such a thing. Instead, seperate the groups into their own partitioned lines. In fact, give the Kurds independence. Let this Kurdistan be a base for which partisans and nationalists in Kurdish Iran can stir some trouble up in Iran, and then sneak back into this safe state. If the Vietnamese could use CAmbodia on us, we can use Kurdistan on Iran!(and Syria too if they keep pissing us off).

Then whatever is left of Iraq, install a strong man. I know, President Dubya wanted to be to the Middle East like Reagan was to Eastern Europe: Bringer of liberty, milk chocolate, and Nintendo. But when we the United States want stable Iraqi pluralistic democracy more than it seems more Iraqis...yeah, lets get get a Pinochet or a Saddam sequel, get a sweet badassss! oil deal with this new regime, and then be a armed border-buffer against Iran.

Who's with me?

Someone has obviously not read the Federalist Papers

someone obviously thinks some people are americans, when they aren't.

Who, that signature-immitating-that-other-guy wanna-be guy?

Maybe I should just ban everyone until we all just settle the hell down!

Not until we have this one explained JG. I want to know the location of this magical land where all the homeless are those who turned down studying 19th century literature and college algebra to live under a bridge?

Thread closed by request of its originator.

Can't say I blame him.