So he's bi, what the big deal?

Of all the critiques of this new novel (just got mine the other day and I just passed the "Tessio's skull qua frisbee" scene, I guess I'm having a tough time trying to figure out this resistance to the possibility that Fredo "serve two masters." After all, it seems that Puzo laid down some major clues leaning that way.

Haven't read yet (will be tough to spend money on a book everyone thrashes ). Fredo being a Bi doesn't bother me. What bothers me is that Fredo has become an easy target for all this stuff. Didn't he have any great qualities at all(other than being able to bang 2 cocktail waitresses at a time )?

Well, Svsg, You'll probably call me kinda hopeless case, but really it is Coppola's fault. In the novel Fredo is much more decent character, especially before he is developed by Vegas temptations. And he is the toughest physically of all sons, and by the way, he was beating Michael at least once a week. If he could guess who it was...

I apparently missed those clues.... what/where were they?

When you combine elements from both the original novel (ON) (where Puzo obsesses big time over Santino's "massive organ," but that's for another thread) and the film, the seeds are well planted. Let's take it in narrative order, shall we?

From the ON, let's look at Puzo's intro to the character...

{emphasis added}

Now before you get your shizzle in a tizzle, understand what info we're given at this point: you've got a guy who's devoted to his father but unhappy, or more than likely, frustrated about something (we don't know what). We also know that he's not getting laid (by women at least), though I grant you it's possible that he gets his fair share every now and then; because we're only told that he avoids *scandalous behavior*, and other than the Don being straitlaced about matters of intimacy, we really don't know what HE considers scandalous.


The second hint is the fact that Fredo really likes Paulie Gatto. Now, on the surface, it seems like of no circumstance: he thinks Paulie's a good kid, end of discussion, right?

OK... except that... you've gotta look at the context (always important). Now, we just got finished hearing about Freddie's devotion and unquestioning loyalty to his Papa--keep your eye on that. The ONE time that he feels the need to part company is when? When Vito wonders aloud if, perhaps, Paulie (whose attendance had become rather dismal) needs to be canned as the driver (now they're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker says, so chances are Mr. Gatto would be reassigned). In fact, we find out later that Vito isn't the only one who's dubious about this guy; Clemenza volunteers to find someone for the job but who nixes that? Fredo. I mean, Mike always thought the kid was nice but I wouldn't picture Mike going to bat for him the Fredo does. But I digress; the question is why would Fredo feel so devoted to this low-level errand boy UNLESS he had a crush on him, albeit unrequited (or requited, Puzo doesn't say, )?

I got so much more on this but I'll let you digest this first (I have Tums and Bromo handy, just in case ).

I apparently missed those clues.... what/where were they? [/b][/quote]Note that these are not clues laid down by Puzo, but they are clues nevertheless

1)Fredo was watching the superman show with great involvement.
2)Geary, another person who was greatly involved in superman show, frequently visited Fredo's brothel(this particular profession was of dual use!)
3)Before michael arrived at Vegas, Fredo was in a room full of girls and JOHHNY FONTANE (I presume finoccio means gay in Italy. Vito called him that)
4)He opened the drapes of michael's bedroom to watch him naked.

If you try to find clues, planted by FFC, there's one OBVIOUS: His wife Deanna shouts, being drunk: You are jealous of him because HE IS A MAN! :p

How about Fred's friendship with Mo Green. Mo. Why do they call him Mo?

Mon- Whats the big deal...well Fredo was never bi before, thats what the big deal is. :rolleyes:
Puzo happened to mention Sonny's large cock...your point. He didnt say that Fredo was marveling over it. :rolleyes:
As for the rest of your explanation, that was some of the stupidest shit I have ever read. :rolleyes: No offence, but it must be poeple like you that Winegardener had in mind when he wrote his version.

Nor did I. But Fredo damn well was "marvelling" over Superman's, as brotherman pointed out just now. (btw, kudos to the brilliance of the late, great John Cazale's acting in that scene)

Would you mind elaborating? Or should we just leave it at "he's ain't bi cuz I sez so, so there"?

The problem isn't that anyone has a problem with Fredo being Bi but that wasn't how Puzo origionally wrote the character. Fredo still lives with his parents because he's devoted to them and doesn't want to leave home also he's guilable and believes that Paulie really is sick so he doesn't mind getting the car for Don Corleone because he just doesn't realize that Paulie is conspiring against them. I think because of Fredo's stupidity and weakness was why he was a crutch to Vito but Fredo had a good heart and always meant well which made him a tragic figure. It can be said that Fredo was weak and stupid but he wasn't Bi and neither Puzo or Coopola made him that way. The problem with the book is the author gets all of the characters wrong. I mean we are supposed to believe that Micheal is a weak Don and he hates Fontaine? Are we supposed to believe that Fontaine is a drugged up loser or that Hagen wants a shot at being Govener? That kay is a nypho and Fredo is Bi and also that Micheal is cold and hs no more heart what so ever? This is all BS created by the author who I have a hard time believing that he's even read the book or watched the movies as he does not understand the things in The Godfather universe that are written in stone.

Pippi

MICHAEL

I've always taken care of you FREDO.

FREDO

Taken care of me. You're my kid brother and you take care of me. Did you ever think about that -- did you ever once think about that. Send FREDO off to do this -- send FREDO off to do that! Let FREDO to take care of some Mickey Mouse night club somewhere! Send FREDO to pick somebody up at the airport! I'm your older brother Mike and I was stepped over!

MICHAEL

That's the way Pop wanted it.

FREDO

It ain't the way I wanted it! I can handle things I'm smart -- not like everyone says -- not dumb, smart and I want respect!

The Godfather Part II

yes, it does (derogative). But you spell it "finocchio".

OMG! then FFC planted such a bomb in GF3! We see Anthony when he's about 30, and there's not a smallest hint that he ever had any girl! Or wishes to have. Watch: if only Winegardner will be admitted to write the GF4 script - what a movie we shall get! Alexander will be put to rest.

Well Mon- Fredo at the superman show was a way of showing that fredo was a weak, perverse, womanizing character. How could FFC and Puzo have known some guy years later was going to make Freddie bi and some folks would look at this scene the wrong way. As for the other stuff...
...about Paulie-that is as homophobic an explanation as I have read.
...about Vito- Freddie was weak, but he always felt he had to prove himself to his father, given who his brothers were. There is nothing homosexual about that. especially given the times and ethnicity of the stroy, it was very common for sons to need thier father's approval.

OK, I can get to that. But just so I'm not misunderstood here; no, I'm not being homophobic (as Don Sonny hilariously suggests) and no, I'm not suggesting that absolutely POSITIVELY Fredo is bisexual. What I AM saying is that, of all the stretches Winegardner makes(we're talking taffy pull, folks) in this literary fiasco, the Fredo twist is, maybe, the most plausible one.

Forgive me if I revere the Puzo novel as one that lends itself to reading between the lines and making off-the-wall interpretations for fun; I thought that's what this board was for. I mean, c'mon, I learned about the oranges motif from here, for cryin' out loud!

And while we're at it, the Winegardner opus is a disaster from jump street. How do you even JOKE about doing a follow up novel on the Corleone Vegas years and OMIT Roth and Pentangeli let alone actually doing it???? This would be like doing a follow-up novel to the ORIGINAL teleplay of Lost In Space and excluding Dr. Smith because his character was not in the pilot. Someone said that it's as though MW was clueless as to the material; I suggest that the editor and the publisher are equally incompetent! You can't rewrite pop cultural history like that and expect no one to notice! Now, I'm only going by the cast of characters at the beginning of the book; if they are actually featured, then I stand corrected.