Posted By: ronnierocketAGO
DEBATE: Who is More Likely to Retire? FAVRE or CLEMENS? - 01/19/05 07:27 PM
Which legendary super-super-star athlete is more likely to NOT return for next season? Green Bay Packers Quarterback Brett Favre or Houston Astros pitcher Roger Clemens? Here to make their case, here are friends of mine.....GOPACKGO and COLT .45!
GOPACKGO- Clemens is more likely to hang up his spikes simply because of age. Clemens is 42 years old while Favre is only 35 years old(many great Quarterbacks like Marino ended their careers at the ripe age of 38). Besides, Clemens had a hell of a year winning the NL Cy Young trophy(one of the few to have the prize in both leagues) and leading his hometown Astros to within ONE win of the World Series. Really, the perfect way to end your career I say.
COLT .45- Clearly people in Wisconsin suffer from a lack of baseball to handle the difference that and football. Sure Favre is only 35 but football is such a violent sport to where if anyone(besides kickers and punters) actually play into their 40's, its an accomplishment while Clemens is just one of many many many players to have strived into their 40's in the next so physically bending baseball. Besides, Favre has his 3 NFL MVP trophies and Super Bowl ring, with the Packers going downhill in terms of quality, what is the insentive to go back? Clemens came within ONE out of the World Series. As an athlete, he has to be itching to try to win his home-town Astros at least a National League pennant before he quits. #4 will leave the Packers and we'll see him enshrined in Canton in about 2010.
GOPACKGO - Well at least Wisconsin hasn't produced two natural-born Presidents get us involved in pointless messy overseas conflicts costing the lives of thousands of American soldiers like your state of Texas has. Anyway, your argument about Clemens itching for a ring for his Astros is a mute point really. Do you really think the Astros can repeat their successful year they had in 2004? Beltran left for the Mets, the Astros didn't pick up former NL MVP Jeff Kent's option, and so on. Sorry but the Astros in 2005, whatever Clemens returns or not, will be lucky to meet a .500 record. If I was Clemens, I wouldn't come back to a loser team. Besides, you talk about Clemens and his "itch", Favre probably has the same itch after his archenemy Minnesota Vikings defeated his Packers in the playoffs, and who wouldn't want revenge?
COLT .45 - Gee, you keep making good points yet still make simple mistakes that must embarras your parents constantly. The Astros still have Hall of Fame-caliber First Baseman Jeff Bagwell as a homerun-producing machine and don't forget that Andy Pettitte will return after his nasty injury from last year. Hell, you forgot about Lance Berkman!!! Trust me, you seem to confuse my Astros with your Milwaukee Brewers.
Anyway, did you read the news how Clemens is asking for a MLB-record $22 million in arbitration? He may in fact be pitching for an inferior ballclub(compared to the same team in 2004), but Clemens will pitch ONE more year in order to get his 2005 salary of at least $13.5 million(and THAT people is what I call "retirement money", save high-paying commercial endorsement spots and card shows).
GOPACKGO- Andy Pettitte was always overrated(despite what whiny Yankees fans think of their "lucky charm"). In the NL, hes not even in my Top 10 pitchers(a list without Clemens mind you).
As for this over-blown arbitration deal, Clemens is like any other human, well not really. We all have an ego(while some have over-inflated egos, but I disgress) and Clemens is arguably the greatest pitcher ever in baseball. After playing for a bargain-base salary of $5 million last season, and seeing how less-than-optimistic he may think of his "hometown Astros" in the off-season, he probably is trying to figure out HOW much the Astros are willing to over-pay him. Besides, in an understanding action of ego, he probably said "screw it" and decided to break Derek Jeter's previous arbitration request record of $18.5 million. What other pitcher in baseball could be worth over $15 million per season besides Clemens? Randy "Get Me That Banana!" Johnson?
Its like when the late-great Reggie White and awesome offensive lineman Bruce Matthews, despite being retired, were offered in NFL Expansion Drafts for the Houston Texans and Cleveland Browns. Just because they are "on the board" doesn't mean they would come back for another year.
COLT .45 - Nice arguments, bravo....but you are still beneath me, amigo. You forget one thing...Clemens has been "retiring" since 2003 so who'll believe him when hes feeling out rumors AGAIN of his leaving the game. Trust me, I know Yankee fans that still feel "betrayed" by Clemens changing his mind and returning to baseball. Besides, Favre only really serious talked about retiring after the personally torturous 2003 and 2004 seasons(with his father and brother-in-law dying and his wife's breast cancer), and who can blame him?
Finally, the NFC North, despite the Packers repeating as the champions of that NFL division, are indeed declining. The Vikings are always perenial contenders while the Chicago Bears and Detroit Lions show promise of growth and improvement beyond their traditional s*itty play. Really, the mini-dynasty that was started by Mike Holmgren and extended of sorts by Mr. Sherman is about to end.
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Okay folks and fellow peeps, post your thoughts or trash these very weak arguments, whatever comes first!
GOPACKGO- Clemens is more likely to hang up his spikes simply because of age. Clemens is 42 years old while Favre is only 35 years old(many great Quarterbacks like Marino ended their careers at the ripe age of 38). Besides, Clemens had a hell of a year winning the NL Cy Young trophy(one of the few to have the prize in both leagues) and leading his hometown Astros to within ONE win of the World Series. Really, the perfect way to end your career I say.
COLT .45- Clearly people in Wisconsin suffer from a lack of baseball to handle the difference that and football. Sure Favre is only 35 but football is such a violent sport to where if anyone(besides kickers and punters) actually play into their 40's, its an accomplishment while Clemens is just one of many many many players to have strived into their 40's in the next so physically bending baseball. Besides, Favre has his 3 NFL MVP trophies and Super Bowl ring, with the Packers going downhill in terms of quality, what is the insentive to go back? Clemens came within ONE out of the World Series. As an athlete, he has to be itching to try to win his home-town Astros at least a National League pennant before he quits. #4 will leave the Packers and we'll see him enshrined in Canton in about 2010.
GOPACKGO - Well at least Wisconsin hasn't produced two natural-born Presidents get us involved in pointless messy overseas conflicts costing the lives of thousands of American soldiers like your state of Texas has. Anyway, your argument about Clemens itching for a ring for his Astros is a mute point really. Do you really think the Astros can repeat their successful year they had in 2004? Beltran left for the Mets, the Astros didn't pick up former NL MVP Jeff Kent's option, and so on. Sorry but the Astros in 2005, whatever Clemens returns or not, will be lucky to meet a .500 record. If I was Clemens, I wouldn't come back to a loser team. Besides, you talk about Clemens and his "itch", Favre probably has the same itch after his archenemy Minnesota Vikings defeated his Packers in the playoffs, and who wouldn't want revenge?
COLT .45 - Gee, you keep making good points yet still make simple mistakes that must embarras your parents constantly. The Astros still have Hall of Fame-caliber First Baseman Jeff Bagwell as a homerun-producing machine and don't forget that Andy Pettitte will return after his nasty injury from last year. Hell, you forgot about Lance Berkman!!! Trust me, you seem to confuse my Astros with your Milwaukee Brewers.
Anyway, did you read the news how Clemens is asking for a MLB-record $22 million in arbitration? He may in fact be pitching for an inferior ballclub(compared to the same team in 2004), but Clemens will pitch ONE more year in order to get his 2005 salary of at least $13.5 million(and THAT people is what I call "retirement money", save high-paying commercial endorsement spots and card shows).
GOPACKGO- Andy Pettitte was always overrated(despite what whiny Yankees fans think of their "lucky charm"). In the NL, hes not even in my Top 10 pitchers(a list without Clemens mind you).
As for this over-blown arbitration deal, Clemens is like any other human, well not really. We all have an ego(while some have over-inflated egos, but I disgress) and Clemens is arguably the greatest pitcher ever in baseball. After playing for a bargain-base salary of $5 million last season, and seeing how less-than-optimistic he may think of his "hometown Astros" in the off-season, he probably is trying to figure out HOW much the Astros are willing to over-pay him. Besides, in an understanding action of ego, he probably said "screw it" and decided to break Derek Jeter's previous arbitration request record of $18.5 million. What other pitcher in baseball could be worth over $15 million per season besides Clemens? Randy "Get Me That Banana!" Johnson?
Its like when the late-great Reggie White and awesome offensive lineman Bruce Matthews, despite being retired, were offered in NFL Expansion Drafts for the Houston Texans and Cleveland Browns. Just because they are "on the board" doesn't mean they would come back for another year.
COLT .45 - Nice arguments, bravo....but you are still beneath me, amigo. You forget one thing...Clemens has been "retiring" since 2003 so who'll believe him when hes feeling out rumors AGAIN of his leaving the game. Trust me, I know Yankee fans that still feel "betrayed" by Clemens changing his mind and returning to baseball. Besides, Favre only really serious talked about retiring after the personally torturous 2003 and 2004 seasons(with his father and brother-in-law dying and his wife's breast cancer), and who can blame him?
Finally, the NFC North, despite the Packers repeating as the champions of that NFL division, are indeed declining. The Vikings are always perenial contenders while the Chicago Bears and Detroit Lions show promise of growth and improvement beyond their traditional s*itty play. Really, the mini-dynasty that was started by Mike Holmgren and extended of sorts by Mr. Sherman is about to end.
-----------------------------------
Okay folks and fellow peeps, post your thoughts or trash these very weak arguments, whatever comes first!