The Underboss Situation

In Season 2, Sil is promoted to Consigliere. Paulie to Capo. Now it's pretty easy to see, from seasons 2-5, Paulie is the "de facto" Underboss. In other words, the position isn't filled, but it's pretty easy to see that he's settled into that role. In Season 4, Paulie has a falling out with Jersey, but by the end of it all, regains his old spot as Tony's #2.

Season 6 is where it gets confusing. The problem with season 6 is that narratively, many events are left to speculation. By the beginning of season 6, according to official sources, Paulie has been officially bumped up to Underboss. That's why, by "Members Only", Chris has his own crew. He took over the Gualtieri Crew. Meanwhile, Bobby stepped up to the plate and proved that even in the time of Tony's crisis, he wouldn't skimp on earning. And Bobby is now family, and Tony likes to keep his family close. So now Tony's top guys are Sil, Bobby, and Paulie. Bobby is still a capo, Paulie is still the underboss.

So far, so good, everything is completely clear. But by the time Season 6B came around? Things got real confusing. In "Sopranos Home Movies", Tony recruits Bobby to do a hit, and from then on, he's seen attending high level meetings, with Sil and Tony. Like Paulie should be doing. Paulie is even shown to be quite jealous, putting Bobby down in front of Sil. In fact, when New York questions Jersey's top 3, they pick Bobby, Tony, and Sil. One of them even says, "What about Paulie Walnuts?" That's a good question! According to HBO and all the other sites, Bobby is now the Acting Underboss!

So what we see now is, throughout almost the ENTIRE SERIES, Paulie has filled in as Tony's underboss. But within the year time span between 6A and 6B, Bobby has now usurped Paulie completely. The only reasoning I uncovered for this was, "Bobby filled in while Paulie recovered from cancer". But even this seems a little off...Also in the final ep, Tony picks Paulie to take over the Aprile/Moltisanti crew I think. So here are the questions.

1. Why would Tony phase out Paulie
2. When did Tony phase out Paulie.
3. If Bobby was "acting", where did Paulie get bumped down to
3. When Paulie took over the empty crews, did he become a capo? or did he resume Underboss.

The whole Paulie being Underboss has been argued about many times. Since he was part of Tony's crew and close to him from the beginning, it seems many have just assumed Paulie became Underboss when Tony took over. But there isn't really anything in the show itself to support that assumption. There are, however, a number of things that contradict that assumption.

Season 3: Episode 11 – “Pine Barrens”

While they are lost in the woods, Paulie complains to Chris about Tony’s dealings with the Russians. Chris says that it is none of their business. Paulie replies “Fuck that, I’m a captain.” Later on, when Paulie threatens to pull rank on Chris for peeing outside the van window, Chris says “Fuck you Paulie, captain or no captain, right now we’re just two assholes lost in the woods.”


Season 4: Episode 2 – “No Show”

At a meeting involving Silvio, Ralph, Bobby, Chris, Patsy, and Little Paulie, the discussion comes up about no-show jobs on the Esplanade construction site. The decision is made to give a no-show job to Paulie, who is in jail, as well as a no-show job to Chris, who is made acting captain over Paulie’s crew.


Season 5: Episode 1 – “Two Tony’s”

Chris goes out to dinner with Tony, Silvio, Feech, and Paulie. Beforehand, Chris had to borrow money from Adriana because he was "low man" that night and so was expected to pay. At the end of the meal, Chris and Paulie fued over who ultimately has to pay. If Paulie was underboss, he would have been outranked by Tony alone, and would not have been bickering with Chris over who picked up the check.


Season 6: Episode 20 – “The Blue Comet”

Phil decides to go to war with New Jersey and makes his decision known to Butch and Albie. “We decapitate and do business with whatever’s left” he says. Later, Butch holds a meeting with other family members about who exactly to hit. They decide to hit who they identify as the top three guys – Tony, Silvio, and Bobby. One of them expresses his amazement that Bobby has risen so high after being “Junior’s driver.”

Upon being warned by the FBI that New York is planning to strike, Tony gives the order to hit Phil to Silvio and Bobby. They, in turn, pass along the order to Paulie, who who clearly resents taking orders from Bobby. Continuing on down the chain of command, Paulie gives the order to Patsy, who arranges the hit with Corky, the go-between with the Italian hitmen.

In the latter part of the episode both Silvio and Bobby are shot by New York hitmen, though Tony manages to evade them. Paulie is never a target, as he likely would have had he been the underboss.

They really should have spelled this out for us viewers. You're definitely right about The Blue Comet. Paulie DID have to take an order from Bobby. Which means he got phased out to a greater extent than I was aware of.

My belief is that between S5 and "Members Only", Paulie was bumped up to Underboss, and Chris took over the Gualtieri Crew. Sure, this opinion was based on what I've seen on various wikis/fansites. But it does make a little bit of sense. If Chris were bumped up, there would be some kind of backstory. This makes the most sense.

But I actually don't have too much evidence for Paulie being an official Underboss. But just watching season 6 it seems to be hinted at a lot. In 6A, Tony is consulting with Paulie like he does with Sil. When Vito asks to resume business but over in Atlantic City, the sitdown is held with Sil and Paulie. Bobby and Chris are absent.

We've heard Tony indicate many times that he plans to eventually fill the #2 spot with a member of his real family. Chris was obviously his choice, but when that went sour, he was left only with Bobby. Bobby had clearly really stepped up to the plate, already looking much better than Chris in Tony's mind. And in comparison to Paulie, Bobby was quite level headed, while Paulie was neurotic and practically insane. This, combined with a loss of respect for Paulie in "Remember When", I think caused Tony to waste no time on grooming Bobby. By "Chasing It", evidence points to Bobby being Tony's new #2, which supports my Remember When theory.

In short: Paulie was Tony's second in command by 6A. By 6B, Tony shows much respect for Bobby, and has come to see him as as true family member, as much as Chris. Bobby upstaged Paulie and Chris by stepping up as a level-headed leader. Tony realized grooming Bobby as his successor could only fare him well, as he was neither neurotic and reckless (Paulie) nor lacked discipline (Chris). Notice the "Acting Underboss" rank that all the sites give him seems to support this.

From Wikipedia: Paulie Gualtieri


From Wikipedia: Bobby Baccalieri


I happened to have researched this a bunch, and the general consensus fits my opinion. Only saying I didn't form my opinion off a wiki haha.

Also, this site seems pretty legit. I mean, the guy did a lot of research.
6A: http://www.utopiaplanitia.info/sopranos/sopranos-family-tree-season6.html
6B: http://www.utopiaplanitia.info/sopranos/sopranos-family-tree-season6b.html

Discuss.

I think there have been some inconsistencies from the very beggining.As IvyLeague pointed out,by late S3 Paulie was a captain.But in S2 we see him getting bumped up to underboss.In the episode where Furio is brought over to America,Tony and Paulie are having a meeting and Tony mentions that "from now on it's me,and then you and Sil together,that's the new pecking order".

The only problem was the writers eventually decided the viewers wouldn't care who was who.

In S2 Tony says "I'm bumping you and Sil up to caporegime and Consigliere respectively". And by pecking order, I think he was just referring to the chain of command. Like back then, Paulie and Silvio would have authority over the captains. And it's definitely true for a while, soon after, they get to order Richie (a captain) to build a ramp.

This guy says that Sil is deceased, I don't think that Sil was ever mentioned as having died from his injuries, just that he was in bad shape.

All I see is a comatose stamp. This is pretty valid, I spent a lot of time fact checking over this guys research. Only one position can be proven wrong, Little Paulie was not yet a soldier. Source: HBO.com

The guy is probably right in one aspect, Tony could have used Paulie's need to devote much of his time to fighting cancer to quietly slip Bobby in to Paulie's old spot. I mean, it wasn't even evident to Paulie till around The Blue Comet. Tony must have been real subtle.

That's just it. I don't remember Tony ever saying that. He had that meet up with Paulie to tell him he was bringing Furio over. And then Tony said something like "It's me, then you and Sil together. Pussy answers to you guys. Furio too." Maybe people read more into that than they should and just assume Paulie was the underboss.

Despite what various fan sites or wiki sites say, I don't think Paulie is ever identified as the underboss in the show itself. But he is often identified, either directly or indirectly, as a captain in various episodes through several seasons. Also, Silvio was identified as consigliere once or twice.

they just don't need to name roles like the average 9-to-5 worker;

Tony never said those exact lines - "I'm bumping you and Sil up to caporegime and Consigliere respectively" - but I believe that's what he meant.

they just don't need to use the word 'underboss' to fill job reports but what I assumed is that by the beginning of Season 2, when Tony undoubtly takes over as "street boss", he chooses Paulie and Silvio as his #2 men, no matter what you call it. Silvio is brighter and more level headed so he's the advisor and Paulie is the only other one Tony can trust so he's the one doing what an underboss does.

Good memory. Unfortunately I forgot the S2 Furio, who spent more time shooting junkies in the kneecap then discussing floor tiles with Carm. I remember that now, you could tell they were all nervous about Furio's appearance. Pussy whined about being upstaged with his FBI agent. And you could tell Paulie was thrilled when he rises above him.

Fansites...yes. When 10 or so start spouting the same information, I believe there's some truth to it. I still do, I've had the same opinions since the show. Remember that Nikki Leotardo rumor? Because of various forums, everyone believed the Members Only guy in Made In America was credited as Nikki Leotardo. And that Bobby mentioned that when you die your vision cuts to black. Unfortunately, this is again because they didn't give us much information to work with in 6B. 6B was a sad case where the sum is less than the parts. Tony gets shot, Paulie watches threes company, Patsy gets time to shine, Benny boils Artie's hand, Chris goes crazy insane. But it was hectic as hell. Which again makes forming conspiracies and far-fetched theories (which I enjoy) a lot more painful.

Did chris become Captain of Paulie's crew or did Tony create a new crew for Chris. I never saw Patsy take orders from Chris is season six. The only guys who took orders from him were benny, little paulie, and other low level associates.

It's almost impossible to say. Little Paulie was a top member of Paulie's crew. Notice when Tony uses Little Paulie to trash Carmine Sr's restaurant, Paulie is furious and yells, "LITTLE PAULIE IS WITH ME!". Tony was the boss, Chris was a captain, not a popular one. Paulie never bothered Chris for giving orders to Paulie, so it's definitely some strong evidence.

Patsy was a high level soldier. At various times he was a favorite of Silvio and Paulie. If he was under Chris, they wouldn't have even had much of a business relationship. I think he basically gave the envelopes to Chris, answered to his friends who were higher up the ladder. The whole time he was trying to weasel his way into a bigger spot, as we see in Made in America.

Ya thats a good point. I always wondered if Patsy was in Chris crew. I know benny Fazio was but I dont know if he ever got made I know Tony promised him his button in like season 5 but i dont know if he ever follwed through with that.

Yeah, I was really surprised when Tony brought it up. Benny was in his young thirties.I mean, it obviously wasn't just because Benny got hospitalized. Best explanation I can think of, Benny MUST have been a good earner. Benny is in his 30's, Larry Barese's godson, not even in his crew. Little Paulie is Paulie's right hand, and first cousin. Little Paulie was a little dopey, but it's just interesting how Benny totally dwarfed Little Paulie, got made so young, Tony's driver even younger. And yes, Benny got made. He was making collections in S6.

Thanks for clearing that up because i remember artie beat the hell out of benny and i thought he would have gotten in trouble since he was a made guy but i guess he was close to Tony.

I reckon Paulie and bobby were joint underbosses while chris and pasty split the soprano crew between eachother and Anthony maffei took over bobbys crew

I thought originally in the beginning Paulie acted as Tony's underboss, although it wasn't really a title he was given (I seem to recall when Tony promoted him to Captain next to the Lou Costello statue)... But by the final season, I understood that Bobby was the Underboss...since he was part of the hits to decapitate the Jersey Family

actually tony was the underboss from season 2-6

junior was the boss......tony was the underboss

tony became boss in season 6 and paulie became underboss

bobby was being groomed to be underboss but he wasn't there yet

Tony was "Street Boss" and later acting Boss (now I'm not a mafioso so I don't know what the actual difference is between "Street Boss" and "Underboss", if there is one. I would guess that traditionally an Underboss didn't get his hands dirty, while Street Boss did). He was never the official boss of the family, although he had all the power.

Actually if I'm not mistaken, Junior (and Jackie Aprile before him) were just "acting boss" since DiMeo was alive (albeit in prison for life) and I don't think it was ever said that he died, so technically he never gave up the the title of Boss, although he couldn't do anything with it except perhaps use it for prison cred.

My first post!

DiMeo is in effect the boss throughout the entire series as the show never mentioned him dying or abdicating. "Beppy" Sasso was the "aging underboss" in Season 1 until he got busted at the end of the season. At this point it was Junior as acting boss and Beppy as underboss with consigliere unknown and possibly vacant (the upper positions could have been jailed along with DiMeo). Some have suggested that Mikey P acted as consigliere for Junior before his demise. Once Junior and Beppy went to prison, Tony took over as street boss/acting boss and Paulie took his crew over.

Tony was never mentioned as being underboss of the crew but it could be assumed that he is once Junior is out of prison and in house arrest and, more or less, a front boss for Tony. Sil is consigliere at this point. Once Junior starts to go a little nutty, Tony officially takes over as "acting boss" with Sil staying on as consigliere and Bobby being bumped up to underboss.

This is just my interpretation so don't take it as gospel.

Junior was only the boss in name. Everybody knew, including NY, that the real power in the family and all the decisions came from Tony. Junior was only named boss so Tony could insulate himself from federal prosecution. The only person who thought he was really boss, was Junior himself. And once his crew got wiped out, it was clear by season two that Tony was the real boss of the family.

yeah junior had the title as boss

and tony had the title of underboss/street boss

As much as we all want to think that things are so structured in the family, the reality is that these guys dont carry around badges saying "underboss" or "consigliere". Tony took over the family in the middle of the first season. He maintained that status till the last episode. He was not considered to be the official boss until the 5th season. Recall the episode where Janis gets pinched for assaulting a soccer mom. In that fictional tv report, the reporter refers to Janice as the sister of "reputed New Jersey mob boss Tony Soprano".
As far as the Underboss situation, there was no technical underboss after Tony took over until Bobby got the position in the last season. Silvio was the number 2 in the family, whether you wanna call him Counselor or Underboss or whatever, he was number 2. Paulie was a Captain throughout the whole series. The only time there was an underboss was when Bobby got it in the last season. There was a point in the 4th season, when it may be argued that Chris had stepped into the underboss role, however, after his heroin problem was revealed he lost that opportunity.

paulie was underboss after tony officially took over the family

after christopher took over his crew he made a comment about "how this was the second time paulie flaunted his authority to his face".......that was in the episode right before chris died in the car accident

tony told bobby to tell junior that he gets to keep his stripes in season 2. which means that junior was the boss (whether he had control or not) and tony was the streetboss

Even if he was underboss in name, he never had the official underboss authority. As the the series moved forward, Tony looked at Paulie like he was a joke; an ill tempered baby with moderate earning capabilities. If you watched the show you know that Tony's number 2 was Sil. As previously stated, Chris at one time could be viewed possibly as a number 2/3 type candidate. Even in the last season, Chris accompanied Tony to that meeting about asbestos removal with Phillie and crazy eyes.
I no point in the series, whether having the underboss title or not, did Paulie have any more power than that of a capo. I don't recall once when he was treated by Tony or the family at large as anything more than a Captain.

There was never any indication that Paulie was underboss throughout the entire series. Even at the end, the talk was about him taking over the Aprile crew, i.e. a captain. I've posted the stuff below before that shows he was a captain but not underboss.


Season 3: Episode 11 – “Pine Barrens”

While they are lost in the woods, Paulie complains to Chris about Tony’s dealings with the Russians. Chris says that it is none of their business. Paulie replies “Fuck that, I’m a captain.” Later on, when Paulie threatens to pull rank on Chris for peeing outside the van window, Chris says “Fuck you Paulie, captain or no captain, right now we’re just two assholes lost in the woods.”


Season 4: Episode 2 – “No Show”

At a meeting involving Silvio, Ralph, Bobby, Chris, Patsy, and Little Paulie, the discussion comes up about no-show jobs on the Esplanade construction site. The decision is made to give a no-show job to Paulie, who is in jail, as well as a no-show job to Chris, who is made acting captain over Paulie’s crew.


Season 5: Episode 1 – “Two Tony’s”

Chris goes out to dinner with Tony, Silvio, Feech, and Paulie. Beforehand, Chris had to borrow money from Adriana because he was "low man" that night and so was expected to pay. At the end of the meal, Chris and Paulie fued over who ultimately has to pay. If Paulie was underboss, he would have been outranked by Tony alone, and would not have been bickering with Chris over who picked up the check.


Season 6: Episode 20 – “The Blue Comet”

Phil decides to go to war with New Jersey and makes his decision known to Butch and Albie. “We decapitate and do business with whatever’s left” he says. Later, Butch holds a meeting with other family members about who exactly to hit. They decide to hit who they identify as the top three guys – Tony, Silvio, and Bobby. One of them expresses his amazement that Bobby has risen so high after being “Junior’s driver.”

Upon being warned by the FBI that New York is planning to strike, Tony gives the order to hit Phil to Silvio and Bobby. They, in turn, pass along the order to Paulie, who who clearly resents taking orders from Bobby. Continuing on down the chain of command, Paulie gives the order to Patsy, who arranges the hit with Corky, the go-between with the Italian hitmen.

In the latter part of the episode both Silvio and Bobby are shot by New York hitmen, though Tony manages to evade them. Paulie is never a target, as he likely would have had he been the underboss.

Agreed. Also, consider 6(a) when Tony is in a coma. Who takes over? Syl. If Paulie was Underboss, he would have assumed the day to day operations.
This is why I think the title thing is a little ridiculous; titles are for the FEDS. Whether Syl was consilgieri or Underboss it doesn't matter; he was the number 2.

in the episode before moltisanti died he told tony "that this is the second time paulie flaunted his authority to my face". moltisanti was a captain therefore the only way paulie would have authority over him is if he were the underboss

new york said "we think bobby baccalieri", them thinking bobby was underboss does not make it a fact. tony was grooming bobby to be christophers replacement that doesn't mean he was underboss yet

silvio gave the order to paulie that they were gonna hit phil and bobby give paulie the details. that doesn't mean he gave paulie the order, he gave him the details because tony told him to set the hit up

By the same token, Chris' comment doesn't even come close to making Paulie underboss. That's you reaching.

There's far more evidence to suggest Paulie was not underboss. There's virtually nothing to suggest he was.

how else would paulie have authority over chis if chris was a captain?

maybe he was a street boss

I don't know. Seniority maybe. All I know is that there's nothing to suggest he was underboss. That's just an assumption a lot of people have made.

The Soprano family didn't need an under boss, They were a small family and the capos were always talking directly with Tony not through someone else like an under-boss position should be.

sorry to bring up an old post Lol.. but my take is that Paulie was never underboss to begin with. Tony's crew wasn't part of the 5 families in NY. He had a very small family with estimated of 50-60 made men. Tony didn't need an underboss at the time because of how small of a crew they were and also that might have just caused a problem for him. He probably just made all the capos earn for a period of time so he can decide who his underboss would be. and according to Phil, Tony's crew didn't follow all of the "rituals" of La Cosa Nostra.

and also, a street boss is the same thing as an acting boss. usually if the big guys is locked and has the street boss carry out his work.

I always saw this scene as evidence that Paulie was underboss for at least the early seasons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30Orzf66f4A

Paulie could have been a decent boss because he didn't really a family and the mob was really the only thing he had besides "ma"

That's an inherent problem with ensemble casts for TV - there's only so much time to focus on the core. You don't have the time nor the resources to draw out an elaborate organization, even if the DiMeos were a 50-60 made member family.

You see the same thing in police procedurals. A show may focus on seven to eight characters, when in real life, the same organization has several times more staff.

I don't think Paulie was ever an actual underboss. There was no official underboss until Bobby; Tony tried grooming Chris to be one but it didn't work out obviously. Paulie was Tony's number 3 guy but his official rank was capo. He held authority over other capos because Tony decided he could do so. Sil was the second in command so in effect he was both consigliere and underboss. It isn't strictly following the typical family hierarchy but Tony was the boss and he could make the pecking order what he wanted.

I always thought this was a problem with NYPD Blue. Not a major one obviously.

in one episode the fbi showed a chart of the family structure.

paulie was underboss,he resented bobby because bobby was bobby, and paulie was paulie

then tony gave paulie the aprile crew because he needed his most trusted watching them

plus all the CONSTRUCTION MONEY with NY

Paulie probably was the de facto underboss, given he had no real crew up until the final episode.

Kind of a gripe I had in later seasons -- it seems like the entire DiMeo family became one giant clusterfuck with no organization. This is about the closest I can find to something that makes sense:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b5/Sopchart.jpg

It does get confusing in season 6. Before that Paulie is capo and Chris and Patsy are under him. By Season 6 Chris is a capo but it isnt stated whether Chris took over Paulie's crew or he was given a crew of his own. Patsy seems to report to paulie still. Chris seems to have a younger crew with guys like benny under him

All captains are not created equal

They basically had a ruling panel.