Did Barzini have the Backing?

I'll post a new question to this board for the newcomers. We all know that in real life, at least back in the days, when a Mob Boss wanted to take out another Mob Boss for business reasons, that Mob Boss HAD to go to the commission to get unanimous approval. My question is that when a hit attempt was made on Vito, did Barzini or Tatttaglia go to the commission to have the hit sanctioned?


Don Cardi

That's a good question. In real life, Sollozzo would have needed the Commission's approval. He may, or may not, have gotten it. The film and the novel weren't real life. In the novel, he tells Michael, "Let me say that I had the support, the silent support, of all the New York families. And the Tattaglia family became my partners. If this quarrel continues, the Corleone family will stand alone against everyone." Did he mean he had the support of the other families to enter the drugs business? Or to whack Don Corleone? Or both? And what did "silent support" mean? As for the quarrel, I think he meant that the other families wouldn't want a protracted war because it'd be bad for business.
I think that, for Puzo's purposes in writing the novel, there was no Commission as we know it. Sollozzo wanted to whack the Don and he got Tattaglia's and Barzini's support. The only "commission-type" meeting was the ad-hoc one that Vito called after Sonny was whacked.

Well put Turnbull, but ponder this : I think that Barzini DID have the approval of the commission. At the commission meeting requested by Vito, we hear Barzini make his famous speach about how Vito would not share his political connections and how this is not an act of a friend, etc. Barzini is addressing the whole commission and there is not a single sign of ANY of those commission members objecting to what Barzini is saying. Not one family that was part of that commission took the side of The Corleone's during the war.


Don Cardi

Personally I have always felt that FFC added the killing of the other commission dons for this reason alone as the book only features the killing of Barzini and Tattaglia and this wouldn’t’ have been as coherent with the reality of the situation.

First of all, I think the role of the Commission even in real life is overestimated. It is largely composed of the NY families, so its influence is important, but not ultimately determinant of family actions. Yes, it is always good to have support for any action one takes. But, I think the support Sollozzo refers to was informal and that it did include killing Vito, if necessary.

DC and UB: You both make a strong case. An alternative view is that Barzini and Tattaglia gave their partner, Sollozzo, permission to whack the Don without asking the other Dons--Cuneo and Stracci. They were neutral because they regarded it as a conflict between the Corleones and Barzini/Tattaglia/Sollozzo. They had no need to get involved in a risky situation. But, when Michael whacked Sollozzo and McCluskey, he brought down a huge load of heat from the police, which severely cramped Mob operations. That's when they took sides against the Corleones.
N.B.: The real life role of the Commission in approving hits is at best dubious. We know that the Commission voted to remove Joe Bonanno from his Donship. But, as far as is known, Vito Genovese didn't consult the Commission about attempting to whack Frank Costello or about assassinating Albert Anastasia. In fact, the famous Apalachin meeting of 1957 was called, in part, to legitimize Carlo Gambino as Anastasia's successor, and to anoint Genovese as capo di tutti capi. To this day, no one knows exactly who gave the order to shoot Joe Columbo--many think Gambino ordered it, but who knows if he consulted the Commission. Gotti didn't ask the Commission's permission to whack Paul Castellano (though he did lobby key Commission members after the fact). We don't know if Chin Gigante asked the Commission's permission to attempt to kill Gotti (the car bombing that killed Frankie DiCicco instead).

Actually I don't believe that there really is a commission any more, and if there is, it is in no way as influential as it used to be. But going back to when the commission was originally formed, you are incorect in your assesment of the role of the commission. At one time there was absolutely no way that a family could make a move against another family without commission sanction, for if they did even with the most justified reasons, without that sanction they would be considered totally wrong in thier actions no matter what. In my opnion the commission lost thier influence after the death of Carlo Gambino. But in getting back to the original question that I raised, we must remember that when Vito was shot it was during a time of a strong commission and that act would have taken the approval of the commission if it were real life.


Don Cardi

Being that this subject has seemed to have spun into a real life disscussion, I have posted my answer to The Gotti / Castellano situation over on the Real Life Mafia thread.


Don Cardi