Can't Kay back up?

While watching a few minutes of Spike TV's GF2...Kay tries to leave the Tahoe compound with the kids. She's driving a big Buick (?) but is stopped at the gate and Tom explains that she can't leave. Instead of backing up and driving back to the house, she takes the kids out of the car and walks. We're not shown where she is going our how far the house is, but couldn't she back up, turn around and drive back to the house? Just one of those silly things that don't make sense.

Michael, after his experiences with teaching Appolonia how to drive, gave up teaching his wife how to drive. Sadly, Kay never learned how to back up.

Why should she? Already pissed off at being held prisoner in her own home, and knowing the car will be taken care of by 'da guys'...makes perfect sense that Kay would get the kids out of the car and walk back to the house in a huff.

Or, as SC says...maybe she just never learned how to back up.

Just one of those silly things that makes PERFECT sense, if you just think about it for five seconds.

Apple

I argree with Apple that it makes sense. Even still that scene always annoyed me. It made me think Kay was a spoiled brat. First she starts argueing with Tom over her safety next she just leaves the car there for the other guys to take care of.

That's what they're there for.

She's just been told (twice) that they'd go out & bring back anything she needs. Since they wre not to allow her & the children out of the safety of 'the compound', then they can certainly move the car as well.

Remember Tom admits he never had the chance to talk to her about this virtual 'house arrest'. The first she heard of it was when she actually tried to leave to simply go shopping.

You'd probably act like a 'spoiled brat', too.

Apple

Sure they can move the car, just as easily as she could move it herself. She left the car in a hissy fit not a "Will you please move the car back for me so I can take care of the kids?" Just as a person would be nice to anyone doing a service (even if they are being paid) she could have shown a tiny bit of appreciation or understanding at the circumstances.

Why?

All agree she's pretty pissed off at this point, now allowed to leave her own home, and though these guys are only doing their job I can't envision any 'appreciation or understanding' from Kay's end...even toward Tom.

She knows the business she's married into...even asks the guy at the gate, 'Whose orders are these?'. She knows the car is going to be moved, more than that, she probably doesn't care by now whether it's moved or blown up.

She's angry & disgusted. She's the wife of Don Corleone. Why on earth should she be expected to either: 1) move the car, or 2) 'politely' ask the guards to do it.

Let's get real.



Apple

Anyone that has ever had any experience with women, knows she is just acting like any woman when she don't get her own way.

That's exactly why I think she's a brat. She's disgusted at the system she married into. My pity for Kay ended when she took back a man who dissapeared and married another woman. Anyway it's just my opinion on a single scene, nothing to debate all day.

Now THERE's something worth debating all day!
Must admit I never considered this topic to be about 'pity'...but simply logic.

Listen, you share your opinion then be ready for responses, whether in agreement or disagreement.

Best,
AppleOnYa

She always suspected Michael was at least implicated in the Solozzo/McCluskey slaying, wrongfully accused of course and that's why he had to leave. And as for Apollonia, I doubt he told her anything. Mike only tells people what he wants them to know and I doubt, at least in GF I, that he would have stood much of a chance if he told her he married a woman in Sicily and only came to her cus she died. Besides a guy who wanted his original woman back would have glazed over that part as it happened literally a world away and wasn't really ever going to be made known to her.

I think FFC was trying to reinforce the point that Kay was, figuratively, under house arrest. By having "Joe" move the car, he was, in effect, "grounding" Kay--taking away the means for her to have the freedom represented by a car. The kids are prisoners, too--after all, as we learn later, they'e "Michael's" kids.
The car was a '57 Buick Special wagon. This is another masterful example of attention to detail on FFC's part. That Buick was plenty big enough to haul around Kay, the kids, or whatever else she was carrying. But it was also unostentatious: The Special was the low-priced Buick line (note the cheap plastic interior). It's precisely what a nice, New England WASP like Kay would drive: nothing too ostentatious, not like a Cad that those showy ethnic-types parade around with. Speaking of which: when Michael returns to the compound from Cuba, he's driven in a '58 Chrysler Imperial Crown Ghia, handmade in Turin Italy by Carozzera Ghia Sp.A, at $13,000, the second-most-expensive American car of that year.

Where did I say I wasn't ready for responses? I mentioned that it was my opinion and that it wasn't worth debating, sure, but that is not the same thing.

As far as not considering the topic to be about pity, but simply logic...I agreed with you in my first post. Leaving the car did make sense. I chose to elaborate on the simple logic.

Turnbull~ The info about the cars is very interesting. I swear I learn something new on here everytime I log on.

Krlea, FFC's selection of cars for GF and II are among the best examples of his brilliance--every single one of them is absolutely right, and reflects that fanatical attention to detail. This is especially true in GFII.

By surmizing that doing the logical thing (leaving the car for others to move)...made Kay a 'spoiled brat'.

By suggesting that she could've shown 'appreciation and understanding', by nicely asking the guards to move the car for her.

Well, 'elaborate' sure is the right word!!!

Glad we can agree though, on the predominant point...that leaving the car did make sense.

Yeesh.

AppleOnYa

But why go through all of the trouble of walking. If she is suh a spoiled brat, ehy not just use the car so she get to the house easier and faster.

The scene still makes no scence.

When I say it was the logical thing for her to leave the car, I meant it was the logical thing for FFC to have her do. Of course it would be easy for her to just get back in the car and take it back to the house, but she chooses to inconvienance (as small as it may be) someone else because she is ticked at her husband, which to me, is a sign of being a brat. Kay's a nice person. She thinks her husband is taking advantage of her and she can't take it out on him so she throws a fit and takes it out on others. Is stomping off and leaving her car there bratty? heck yea.

"Yeesh" right back at you

Actually she's not simply mad at her absent husband but infuriated with the whole situation. This had been brewing up since Anthony's First Communion party and the shooting that same night. Even before the shooting it was obvious she had not been happy for a while. This not being allowed to leave her own home, for her own protection business was the straw that broke the camel's back. It is shortly after this that she probably decides to abort the child she's carrying. She's had enough.

Incidentally, if you think about it for just a moment...it's probably WAY easier to grab the kids & walk it off than to get back in the car, turn the key, shift into reverse and back all the way up the winding driveway, which probably isn't a short one at that. She had alot of steam to let off.

It was not only the 'logical' thing for FFC to have her do...it was the logical (not 'bratty') thing for HER to do.

And I don't think it was an 'inconvenience' for the guards to have to move the car. It's part of their job, what they get paid - very well - for. Same as not letting Kay through the gate. They're following orders.



Apple

ps - Anybody who happens to agree that Kay in this scene is a 'brat'...please let me know how you think you might act if your bedroom had been shot into while you were lying in your bed, and then shortly after that you found out you and your children were unable to leave your own home at will. Would you nicely ask the fellow at the gate to please bring the car back to the garage, or would you storm off in frustration at the whole big mess you've gotten yourself into?

I could've sworn you saw the house just about 10 feet away...

We're just lucky it wasnt that time of the month, or she would have ripped the flesh off her face to reveal oprah winfrey, I mean satan, gotten into her station wagon (beautiful woodwork may I add) and ravaged around the estate yelling "YO MUTHA FUCKAS I GETTIN OUT OF THIS BIZATCH!".

Then again if you really want to see that I highly suggest renting "Friday" starring Ice-T, or Liquid Ice, or Solid Water, or which ever ghetto actor is in that.

long_lost~ ha ha ha Friday and Next Friday were just on yesterday.


Apple~ If my husband was just shot at I certainly would be listening to his advice wholeheartedly and would never be taking our children out to go to the store. I woulden't even let them out of the house. Her getting ticked shows me that she does not understand the reality of the circumstance.

To sum it up we both have different definitions of bratty behavior. I stand by my opinion that Kay is an annoying brat in that specific scene.

Yeah I was watching it actually . I particularlly enjoyed the dubbing on every 8/10 words coming from Chris Tucker (well it was some ennoyingly high pitched overly stereotyped african american voice, I just took a guess) to reach daylight.

Similar to present day, in the late 50's and 60's, girls were not able to satisfactorily drive automobiles in the forward direction, let alone in reverse. (j/k)

AppleOnYa, if she's such a spoiled brat then why do you have her picture up on your display?

Very funny Double-J.


Underboss~ Apple doesn't think she's a spoiled brat, I do. Just in that scene I have to add before it gets to be an even bigger debate. In all I think Kay's a nice person, she just threw a tiny hissy fit right then.

Who would have thought "Can't Kay back up?" would get so many posts.

Sorry AppleOnYa.

But wouldn't you be pissed if you were trapped in your house by your absent husband who just took off in the middle of the night after almost getting you killed and putting your family in danger and has all his buddies with guns to exercise this power?

Well, yeah but I'd also be thankful those men were there to protect me in the first place. If they weren't they'd probably both be dead.

If your going to marry someone, then you need to support them, not question every decision they make. Sure it was just a tiny scene, but that one scene showed Kay's impatience and frustration with Michael. My spoiled assessment came from Kay never being supportive of Michael. Sure he had a terrible job but it's not what he wanted either.

I'm not saying Kay is a horrible person. I do however believe it made a huge difference in the happiness of Michael's life that Kay was always naggy instead of staying out of the business like Mama Corleone. They were in an unfortunate position and instead of helping Michael she did the opposite.

Yes, but wouldn't those men not need to be there in the first place if Michael had become a successful businessman or what-not, he was definatly capable of something lke that and not Mafia Don?

And isn't Kay's ultimate concern for her family's safety ultimatly justified in GF III when Mary dies, due the involvements and dealings of Michael?

And your telling me that she should just support him killing people and robbing people and generally making people suffer. I mean would you be supportive of a husband who made his money on crime at other people's expense and was a killer and who put your life and lives of your children in harm's way and who ultimatly forced you to be a prisoner in your own house because he lacks the iniative or the will to make a change that will ultimatly result in a far greater level of happiness and safety for you and your family, the same change of character and of occupation he promised years and years ago?

I don't think Kay wasn't trying to keep her family safe, just the opposite, but the whole point of them staying on the compound was for their safety.

As far as "support him killing people," Was this news to Kay after they got married? No. None of it should have been a surprise. Michael gave her every avenue out of that relationship (more so in the book, but that is another topic) and she decided to stay anyway. Did she actually believe she could change the whole family?

As much as I hated the fact that Kay left Michael, it was the first time she quit blaming him and realized that it was also her fault.

Anyway this is very off topic. I'll be at work all day so I won't get to reply. It's been very interesting, but also this topics been running around in circles so I think it's run it's course anyway.

Mama Corleone was.

The last three posts in this thread (which has turned out to be one of the better discussions of the movie in a long time) have touched on the crux of Part II (the changing times and the "Americanization" of family values).

I don't expect that there is a right or wrong answer here. Is the old school way of quietly supporting your husband and accepting his destiny better than putting your own desires on top better? Is it better to accept your station in life and have confidence in your husband's position, or is it better to speak out against that whole "Sicilian thing that has been going on for 2,000 years"?

The answer is a personal choice.

Hi, UnderBoss...as Krlea has pointed out it is not I who ever thought of Kay as a spoiled brat! I'll let the rest of you handle this thread as it's clear she (at least I *think* 'she') is all over the place defending her points.

The reason for my Kay avatar is a poke & nod to plawrence...who commented in another thread that, "I liked you better when you were Kay", (which by the way, I never was).

Anyway, it's temporary and only for plaw!!

Apple

In a deleted scene from GF, we see Kay, wearing a mantilla, lighting candles in church. This relates to the very end of the novel: Kay joined the Catholic Church (which "disappointed" Michael--he wanted his kids raised as Protestants becase it was "more American") so she could pray that Michael's soul wouldn't go to hell. That's pretty loyal, wouldn't you say? Kay's loyalty to Michael didn't become an issue until GFII, by which time it'd become clear to her that Michael would never be "legitimate," that his business was a physical threat to her and her children, and that he was lying and dissembling to her.

Yup Apple I know, I was just skimming the msgs and must of got something mixed up, but I realized that when Krlea pointed it out, sorry about the mix up.

UB

Turnbull~ I love that scene. It's one of my favorite parts of the book and I so wish it was included in the film. It's definetly supportive and that'ss why I do wish it was included. If I'm talking about the film, if it's not included, then to me it never happenend.

I don't see where I'm all over the place, but owell. It definetly was an off topic debate, but I think it made it more interesting (it did for me atleast). Looking back I should have just started a whole new thread, "Was Kay a brat when she parks the car?" JUST KIDDING

Kay had prefectly logical reasons for not moving the car-
1) You cant stomp off in a car
2) If she would have tried to back up in her rage, she most likely would have crashed into one of the many trees on the property, damaging the car and making herself look stupid in front of the buttonmen
3) The car was most likely a standard transmition, and in her anger she would have stalled the car, making her look stupid in front of the buttonmen.
It all goes back to Double J's reason.

What was the most expensive car of that year? The Cadillac Eldorado Brougham?

While the Buick wasn't ostentatious, especially being the low priced one that Buick offered that year. It was still a notch most of the other wagons offered that year, and befitting a "mob wife".

Actually, Johnny, I got my years transposed a bit. The '58 Crown Imperial Ghia was the most expensive car of that year, at $15k, while the Eldo Brougham was a mere $13k. In '57, the order was reversed: $13k for the Brougham, $12k for the Ghia.
Yes, the '57 Buick Special wagon was a notch above the Edsel Voyager or the Ford City Squire of that year. But she still had higher-priced choices: A Buick Century wagon would have cost another $800 on top of the Special and have added 5.5 inches to her wheelbase. And, if she really wanted to make an impression on the little people, she could have stepped up to a Chrysler New Yorker wagon for an additional $1800. My feeling is that FFC's fanatical attention to detail made him deliberately choose that Buick Special precisely because he wanted to portray Kay as someone rich enough not to drive a mere Chevy, Ford or Plymouth wagon, but self-conscious enough about flaunting her wealth to choose a Buick Special instead of the higher-priced line.

Agreed Turnbull. Being a car enthusiasts like yourself, I too was greatly impressed with the detail that FFC put in the cars. As I previously posted, what stuck out in my mind the most was the fact that in GFI&II, you don't see Mike in a Cadillac, usually the car of choice of mob types back then. Even when "on the road" he had the Ford in Florida, and the Mercury in Cuba. He opted for the Packard limo and of course the all time favorite the Imperial Ghia.

A none descript Ford is usually the best way to go; stay on the downlow and Michael wasn't about all that flash and glitz anyhow. A Caddi draws too much attention, especially for someone who's life could be in danger at any moment.

Exactly, guys! Johnny Ola, my fellow car enthusiast (who knows his stuff! ) and I have agreed that any director would simply assume that a top Mob guy drives a Cad, and have put Michael in Cads. But FFC worked harder: The Ghia limo (one of fewer than a dozen made in '58); the '54 Packard we saw at the church in
GF, and another Imperial limo in GF (the one that delivered him to Moe Green's hotel). Not your conventional Mob guy, Michael.
And, UnderBoss, you're right about Fords. In the scene where Johnny Ola is leading Michael and his bodyguard to Roth's home in Florida, Michael is driving a '58 Ford Custom 300-- exactly the model Avis would have rented to a nondescript tourist, which is what Michael was trying to appear to be. The red/black paint job is authentic, too. Ola, meanwhile, drives a '58 Chrysler New Yorker sedan. It probably belongs to Roth, and is exactly what a well-to-do Jewish man of the era would have bought.
My favorite example of FFC's fanatical attention to car detail is the '57 Mercury Montclair that carries Michael around in Cuba. The collectable Merc of that year was the high-end Turnpike Cruiser, and FFC could easily have rented one for that scene. But he chose the lower-priced Montclair because it's exactly what a Cuban driver-for-hire of that era would have used. It's in generally good shape, and has the original sea green/cream two-tone paint job. But the front bumper is a bit sagged from hard use. And--triumphal touch!!--the driver has equipped it with a tinny European horn: exactly what a Cuban car owner would have added!
The cars are only one supremely authentic element in the Havana sequence. Among the others are the physical appearance and actual clothes worn by Batista and his family at the New Year's Eve party (which you see for 2 seconds--long enough for FFC to care to get it right); and the mob smashing parking meters with baseball bats (that happened, and for a good reason). In fact, the Havana sequence is so absolutely authentic to the last detail that serious scholars of Cuba tell their students to view GFII to see what Havana was like on the eve of the Revolution. The man is a genius!

Gee, I'm so glad I tossed this smoke bomb into the crowd a few days ago. Nice to see AOY exercising her freedom of sarcasm and condescension. KRLEA, hang in, I like your spunk.

So often I think we miss the picture FFC is trying to paint. We take the scenes too literal. Turnbull's use of the 'figuratively' encompasses the intent of the scene. I think its strictly done to create a mood or image. Kay is pissed. She's a prisoner. Storming off on foot is much more dramatic than shifting into reverse and returning to the house. No logic intended by the director; strictly mood.

LOL, well if you want to put i that way, where is all the fun . But seriously she was super pissed at that time and that was totally the intention.

I'm going to have to side with Kristen on this one. -Pat