clemenza vs. pantangelli

before i joined this site, i had no idea why clemenza didn't return for the sequel or that pentangelli was basically a replacement. after discovering this it kind of got me thinking about the spin it puts on gfII. i don't know how others feel about pantangelli's role in gfII, but i am kinda glad in a way that clemenza's character didn't return. don't get me wrong, clemenza's was one of my favorites from the original and most of the people on this site seem to feel this way. if clemenza would have performed the actions of pentangelli in gfII, there's no way he would be as well liked as he is. i would guess that most people liked the character of clemenza over tessio due to tessio's betrayal. and at that point, all we knew about tessio was that he and clemenza were vito's right-hand men so it really wasn't a huge shock when he betrayed michael. after seeing the backstory of vito and clemenza plus the interaction that clemenza has with mike (i.e. teaching him to cook) would have made one of the most memorable characters in the trilogy into a villian. not to mention the fact that gazzo was absolutely perfect for the role of pentangelli. gfII would still have been a great movie with clemenza instead of pentangelli, but i think it was actually kind of a blessing in disguise that clemenza held out. just wondering what you guys (and girls!) think about this. as someone who has seen the movies over and over before ever knowing about the behind the scenes story, it kind of puts a unique spin on the second godfather movie that i never even realized. that's what is so great about this site.

i also wanted to say, that even though pentangelli does redeem himself in the end at michael's request, i'm not so sure we would have been so forgiving if it was clemenza. we knew nothing about pentangelli before the movie so when he turned on michael (albeit for a good reason considering he thought michael tried to kill him) we had no reason to wonder why. i think if it was clemenza, knowing what we did about his character, the betrayal would have been that much greater and, therefore, we as fans probably wouldn't be as quick to forgive.

There has been some discussion of this on this site and from what I observed most members echo your sentiment about Pentangeli. He was a larger than life personality in the movie and injected a sorta endearingness to the film, in spit of it's dark themes and lighting.

I think it's unfortunate he died, he was lead into beleiving that Michael wanted him dead, deader than a door knob. I don't think under any other reasonable circumstances he would have betrayed the family. He didn't go through with the task, but in the world of the Cosa Nostra and under the conditions he was living it is understandable that he was given an opportunity to commit Seppuku (Hari-kiri).

JB, very interesting points. But at the same time, if it were Clemenza, it would have just added to the steeliness that Michael embodied in Part II.

I am glad that Clemenza died loyal to the family, but at the same time, it would have added another dimension to Michael, who would stop at nothing to flush his enemies down the drain - no matter who they were.

If Clemenza was in GFII, would he have had the same part as Pentanglis? In other words would his character been the same. I just can't see Clemenza ever being disloyal to Mike and the family.

Clemenza probibly would have done the same if his ball were in a vise like Pentangeli's were. Pentangeli only initially gave some info because he thought Mike wanted him dead for an unjust reason. Clemenza probibly would have probibly have done the same actions, him and Tessio were ready to leave the family after Vito retired. Clemenza's beleif in Michael's abilities are a point of conjection cus we know little of what happened after GF I to Clemenza.

Orignally yes, but once Don Vito assured him to trust Michael, Clemenza, being the good soldier, trusted Mike. Don't forget the bonding scene in Clemenza's basement when he gave Mike shooting lessons. Unlike Tessio, I think Clemenza really liked Michael.

Good point and by extension, in the scene where Clemenza and Tessio ask to abdicate from the family in the Don's study, after Michael takes power and Vito is still alive, Clemenza may be buying into Tessio's arguement of Michael's short comings.