Fredo was the Underboss

I was watching the Godfather II on DVD, and I happened to pause it perfect in the senate hearing scene, right where it shows the family tree. I looked real hard, and I saw that Fredo Corleone was listed as the underboss. I thought he was small potatoes!

Although I am asking others for their opinion, I think I could give one of my own. Fredo Corleone was given a title to keep him happy, while Tessio in GF1 and Lampone in GF2 really was the underboss. Fredo was happy with his title until he figured out that he really didn't have much of a role in the family position at all.
~Sal

Could be, ST. I believe a more likely explanation is that the FBI simply got it wrong. They figured that, since Fredo was Michael's older brother, he must be an underboss. They probably didn't know the details of Fredo's weaknesses, or might have misinterpreted them. For example, we know that Fredo had a nervous breakdown after the Don's wounding, so Sonny sent him to Nevada to recuperate and "learn the hotel business." But since the Corleones eventually relocated to Nevada, maybe the FBI saw Fredo as the Family's leading edge and pioneer? We know that Moe Green slapped Fredo around, and that Michael had Moe killed. Maybe the FBI thought Fredo was bossing Moe around, and that Fredo had him killed?

Hi!

"Casino business", as far as I can recall.

By the way of it, what are the typical assignments of a classic Underboss? My guess would be: day to day personnel issues, management of the Capo pool; sort of seargent under the Consigliere. It would be great to learn this with certainty.

Best regards.

Alexander

Good points Turnbull, in 1958, the FBI surveillance wasn't as sophisticated as today of course, so there assumptions might put Fredo as Underboss. They would also surmise that the bloodline is the determining factor. But Fredo did have some talents (beside two at a time) and intelligence. He was a gregarious, affable person who seemed to be well-liked. He was just a little nervous and jerky and had a weakness for drink and women.

Michael does make a reference to "Fredo and all of his men", Michael trusts him to carry $2 mil to Cuba, Fredo runs the brothels in Nevada....so maybe he is Underboss, but more in name than power.

Perhaps all of the above, Alexander. But one of the nice things about being a Don is that he can do anything he wants with any of his underlings, so an underboss's duties could be encompass anything. Using the Gambinos as an example: Neil Dellacroce, underboss to Carlo Gambino and Paul Castellano, ran the family's entire "blue collar" activites (loansharking, hijacking, strong-arm, dope, gambling). When he died , Castellano moved to make Tommy Bilotti his underboss--Bilotti's only duties were as Castellano's chauffeur and companion. When Gotti took over, he let Sammy Da Bull decide if he wanted to be called consigliere or underboss.

Turnbull, if you don't think Fredo was the underboss, who do you think was? Not Tessio, not Clemenza. I knew Santino was the underboss to Vito, but who was the underboss after that?

Perhaps Michael didnt need an underboss. He just needed Tom and himself.
~Sal

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i agree..excellent observation

That's a good question, ST. Frankie Pentangeli was an operating underboss: he ran the old "olive oil business" in NYC for Michael. Fredo ran some "Mickey Mouse nightclub" and the brothel, had some men. Probaby nothing of importance to the family (why would Michael entrust Fredo with anything important when he regarded him as "weak and stupid"?) Neri and Rocco may have had some action of their own (in a deleted scene, you get the inference that Neri's going to run the Corleones' interest in the Tropicala Hotel after he ran Klingman out). But I tend to agree with your last line: Mike kept the family business very close to the chest.

Fredo Corleone won the 'bloodline' lottery. He was born into a 'royal' mob family. I don't think the son of Vito and the older brother of Michael Corleone cannot be answerable to or take orders from somelike Rocco, al Neri or Frankie 5-Angels.

So I don't think it matters what Fredo's specific job duties, abilities or skills are. Rather who Fredo is related to dictates his position in life; and who fredo should be accountable to, gives him the title as 'Underboss'. Granted, Fredo did a lot of boning , but he never made his bones. This is the basic requirement to work for the family. On thing is for sure, unlike the other Underbosses, Fredo did not have to earn the title/position.

It is common knowledge that Fredo not too fast on the uptake. Therefore, I don't think the Corleones was truly counting on Fredo to learn the casino business. Sonny or Tom may have told Fredo that they need him to learn the business. However, Fredo is a big walking target who is incapable of defending himself. Therefore, NYC during wartime was a dangerous place for Fredo to be.

Looking back, I did not see Fredo Corleone/Moe Greene as a 'learning' mentoring relationship ala Roth/Greene. Even Moe Greene said that 'he took Fredo in' as a favor to the Corleones as if Fredo was a foster child. Its hard to learn anything for a person who bitch slap you public. Therefore, I don't think any real learning of the casino business occured during this relationship.

i think that was proly it micheal didnt need an underboss , he changed alot of thinks ,tom and pentagil also said that times have changed ,the syle of the familie has changed

I figure that the Senate Committee used the info given them by Willie Cicci and Frankie 5 Angels to make that (Family) chart. Cicci, as a mere button, probably didn't know the true hierarchy (remember, there were a lot of buffers) and even though Pentangeli was at least a capo, and should have known his immediate "superior", he may have been left in the dark intentionally since it appears Mike was concentrating his Family's efforts in Nevada, and probably somewhat forgetting about the New York faction.

In any event, I believe Turnbull's suggestion about Mike keeping things close to his vest sums it up best (there probably wasn't an underboss).

Actually Pantangeli was the underboss for Mike, but was appointed to run the New York illegal operations

There are any number of things about the Godfather that seem curious or inconsistent. For one, what was Tessio's first name - not in the book and not in the movie? Sal? That's the name Tom uses just before they take Tessio for a ride at the end of the movie.

And given that the Corleone family was the biggest in NY, why only two Capos or three if you count Sonny and his regime?

Michael did not have an underboss probably as a functionof this personality. He had alot of arrogance.

who was consigliere in part one after mike told tom he wansn't consigliere anymore, and who was consigliere in part two?

At the conclusion of that scene, Michael said, "besides, who's a better consigliere than my father?" But Tom was, for all intents and purposes, back on the inside by the time of the Great Massacre of '55. In GFII, Mike was mostly his own consigliere. Tom was the acting Don when Michael went to NYC and Havana, but Mike was back in charge when he returned.

thanks turnbull for clearing that up for me.

I tend to agree with Deathkiss and think Fredo had no official title, but was born into "mob royalty", so to speak. Just being "blood" would carry an "unbreakable" connection to the family, yet the family, knowing Fredo, knew where to draw the line as far as any of his "duties" were concerned.

And I agree with TB as far as the senate hearing chart showing Fredo as "underboss." They just assumed he held a high position in the family.

TIS

how do we know what happened to Fredo after the Don was injured (breakdown)---is that from the book? if so what are the details?

Yeah it tells you that he was in shock and crying his eyes out.The cop on the family's payroll call Sonny and tells him to come get Fredo and sedate him. Thats where he is when everyone else is plotting agasinst Paulie,"he's sleeping"

The FBI then(and still today) cannot possibally know what the reasons are for whatthe mob is doing, so that probably accounts for some of it, but Fredo also might had been an Underboss. Not all UBs have the same amount of power,territory,etc. "I've always taken care of you." Maybe it was a title, but didnt have much power to go along with it.