What would you do about Fredo?

Lots has been written about Michael killing Fredo, but I have not seen much about what alternatives he had. If you were in Michael's shoes and learned that Fredo had betrayed you to Hyman Roth, withheld information about the whereabouts of Pentangeli and Questadt, and more likely than not had an idea it was going to be a hit, what would you do short of wacking him?

Well DT, he should do what he did: he exiled him.

I've often said that Fredo's outburst in the boathouse proved not only that Fredo betrayed Michael, but that he also knew Pentangeli and survived and that the Senate lawyer, Questadt, belonged to Roth--it also showed the depths of his resentment of Michael--and the real possibility of an ongoing grudge that might have meant that Fredo would try again. That's why I believe Fredo had to be killed.

But, short of killing, Michael could have continued with the initial exile he decreed for Fredo, and had him watched very closely. That would have been suboptimal from Michael's viewpoint, IMO.

TB, you're not the only one who perceives Fredo as a future threat. However, noone ever states how.

I agree with both of Oli's posts.

Exile would have been a sufficient punishment.

Fredo not having access to the Family business would have made any future threat from him negligible.

As I've posted before, Michael's handling of Fredo - continuing to allow visits to the compound - demonstrates that he did not view Fredo as a threat.

I don't think that exile would have been enough, only because of the outburst in the boathouse. As Turnbull said, the boathouse scene confirmed that not only did Fredo know, but he also had resentment over being "passed over". IMO the resentment is what did him in, not the act of treachery in and of itself, because the resentment showed that he would never be happy.

Let's see that he's exiled and cut off from all the family business. Nobody directly in the Family deals with him. He's given some "Mickey Mouse nightclub" to manage to earn a living, and told pretty much to never contact anyone, least of all Michael. Who's to say that some other conniving gangster wouldn't approach Fredo down the road with another deal and promise him something of his own? Who's to say he wouldn't take that offer, either growing the balls to try and off Michael himself (not likely, but still), or snitching to the police, or giving any information at all that could be of some possible use against Michael and the Corleone Family, even if it's outdated.

Fredo HAD to die, because he showed that he would never be happy unless he was the Don, and that meant he could always face the temptation of yet another betrayal because he would always resent the fact that his "kid brother" was made head of the Family.

Again, noone is stating how.

I don't think Fredo wanted Michael killed. Yes, he was somehow involved, but I he was double crossed.

So, while he's an idiot, I don't see the probability of Fredo having Mike killed a second time. That's because there wasn't a clear first time.

Wayne posited a very credible answer, Oli. Some "conniving gangster" (like Roth? Ola?) could have gotten to Fredo to exploit his resentment of his brother--as Roth and Ola did--and found a way to get at Michael with Fredo's complicity and without Fredo having to pull a trigger or otherwise show any courage.

Had Fredo been allowed to live in exile,I don't think he would have posed a threat to Mike. He would have little, if any info to give out,and would be a pariah to everyone except maybe Connie. He could fume and fester the rest of his life about bein' stepped over,but Mike's antenna would forever be up,and I doubt Fredo would have a second chance to strike. Fredo screwed up the one chance he did get,and he would get older,not "smahtah".

Who cares if Fredo is not happy? That doesn't make him a threat. Especially if he's exiled. He would have no information to provide and no physical way to get at Michael. Mafia Dons make people unhappy all the time. Where's the danger Fredo posed to Michael?

Yes, he could have gone to the police. But it's not like Michael killed him right after the boathouse. He allowed Fredo to live as long as Mama was alive, which could have been years, and even permitted Fredo to visit the compound. None of the supposed dangers came to pass.

If Michael at his most paranoid didn't consider Fredo a threat, it will take more than vague hypotheticals to make me believe he was.

While Fredo could have gone to law enforcement, he was so stupid and ill informed, he would have never stood up to cross examination, so I do not think he was a threat there. Nor was he a threat to Michael from the standpoint of other gangsters, or enemies. he was just too useless. The betrayal with Roth only because Roth may have thought Fredo was more in the loop than he really was. Once he was formally exiled he was useless. Imagine if he were around in III. Would the Catholic Church or the bankers in Immobiliare, or even Altobello have given a second thought to use Fredo to persuade Michael to take a softer negotiating position? I suppose once Vincent passed him over the old resentments could return ("Michael is sick, now its my turn....")

Actually the only value he had would have been while his mother was alive. Someone could have kidnapped him for ransom, and Michael would either have to pay or tell Mama why he wasn't paying.

Other than Michael's sheer desire for revenge, the only possible motive I see that justifies what he did to Fredo was to put out the perception to the world that if you mess with Michael you sleep with the fishes.

Agreed.

Michael's biggest regret was most likely killing off Fredo. Had he been kept alive, it can also equally be Michaels' biggest regret.

Fredo is known for being easily used or making mistakes that can cost the Family the empire. Fredo couldn't manage his own life and was a tickiing time bomb waiting to exploed at Michael's face. Fredo became a virus to the family and Michael had to protect it at all costs.

I thought one of the most brilliant touches in II was how FFC and Puzo turned around Fredo's character. He was the stupe of stupes in GF, and started out that way in II. And yet he had enough balls to act out his resentment of his brother by selling out to Roth. And enough cunning to set up the Tahoe hit--and enough initiative to know that Pentangeli was alive and that Questadt belonged to Roth--long before Michael and Tom knew it. That made him a most dangerous character, IMO.

I never saw any evidence that Fredo set up the Tahoe compound assassination attempt on Michael.

Good question would be who left the curtains open to Michael's bedroom?

Regarding Fredo, Michael could never let him live because to do so would have been a sign of weakness. And speaking of weakness, I think there's a good foreshadowing of Fredo's fate in the casino hotel scene where Michael tells Fredo never to sides against the Family again.

The "good question" you cite in your post is one of maybe about 10 that have been exhaustively debated on this Board.

Yep, this is what I always thought.

Michael didn't feel Fredo was a threat- he didn't kill him to protect his own safety. He just wanted to send a message to others not to cross him..... he would even whack his own brother.

While we don't know who could have gotten into Mike's bedroom through all of the security inside the house, we do know of one person who definitely was in the bedroom - Anthony. I believe that when Frankie gave him that $100, he could have asked him to open the drapes to Mike's bedroom when he goes in. Anthony left that drawing on Mike's bed. There's too much coincidence for me that when Frankie meets the rosato's that he gets handed $100 bill outside the bar. He says something to the effect that he didn't like it. We do know that Danny Aiello ad-libbed " Michael Corleone says hello" when he is garroting him, Mike could have found out from Anthony that Frankie gave him the $100. Don't forget Frankie told Anthony " dont't tell your father about the bill, I don't want to embarrass him".

I think the ideal solution for the Fredo problem would have been commitment to a mental institution. Easy for someone like Michael to arrange in 1960.

Wow! never thought of that. He could have arranged all kinds of electroshock and then pushed the "poor Fredo" story on everyone. Connie and Kay would have bought it in a heartbeat, but Tom would know the truth.

It seems some try to justify Mike's murder of hsi brother by saying Fredo was behind the hit. There has never been any evidence that fredo knew about the assasination attempt. Fredo was a idiot but they said many times throughout the series that he had a good heart. People were scared to death of Mike so he didnt have to send a message. I mean he killed the 4 heads of the family in one day. Hyman Roth was the one exception ebcause of his power and his smarts. There was no reason to kill Fredo other than Mike was just a evil monster by that point

If that scene had some meaning it wouldn't have been cut out by Coppola. So no, Frankie had nothing to do with it. And it wouldn't have made much sense if he would as he wasn't particulary cozy with Roth and the Rosatos.

In addition, why would Frankie trust a 7-8 year old boy?

Because unlike Michael Frankie didn't understand anything about "big deals."