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Who was missed more?

Posted By: Don Vanchenzo

Who was missed more? - 02/07/04 10:37 PM

Who was missed more:

Richard Castellano in Godfather II; or
Robert Duvall in Godfather III?

My vote is for Clemenza; although, Hagan saving us from BJ would have been merciful. orange
Posted By: Don Lights

Re: Who was missed more? - 02/07/04 11:07 PM

I persoally belive Robert Duvall's performance as Tom Hagen was felt more than the loss of Clemenza on the screen. Godfather Part II was fine without Clemenza. Tom Hagen is an interesting character and he holds the family together.
Posted By: Don Sonny Corleone

Re: Who was missed more? - 02/08/04 12:17 AM

FFC should have given more to Duvall. BJ did nothing but try to act "tough" Pentangelli worked fine as a Clemenza replacement.
Posted By: Turnbull

Re: Who was missed more? - 02/08/04 01:20 AM

Duvall by far. Gazzo was a splendid character actor. Who'd we get instead of Duvall? The Melanoma Poster Boy.
Posted By: Capo de La Cosa Nostra

Re: Who was missed more? - 02/08/04 01:45 AM

Definitely Duvall. Gazzo was better than Castellano anyway, so the latter wasn't missed by me. Tom on the other hand is one of my favourite characters in Part I and II.

Mick
Posted By: johnny ola

Re: Who was missed more? - 02/08/04 04:58 AM

Keeping Duvall, might have made GFIII a better film. cool
Posted By: EnzoBaker

Re: Who was missed more? - 02/08/04 06:37 AM

In both cases, FFC should have just recast the characters rather than writing the characters out because the original actors would not return, and then writing in an almost identical character to take their place.

They could have just cast Gazza to play "Pete Clemenza" rather than "Frankie Pentangeli" and really, who would have been that upset by it? Nobody was that upset when they recast Vito Corleone, for cripe's sake.

Nobody had any problem adjusting after 10 seconds, "OK Marlon Brando isn't playing Vito anymore, DeNiro is," there wouldn't have been any problem getting people to believe Gazza was Clemenza.

In GF II in particular, they go to the trouble in the flashback sequences to set up how Clemenza actually led Vito across the line into criminal activity, it would have been more powerful in the 1959 sequences to show Clemenza finally cracking and betraying the Family in his final desperation.

The movie was great anyway, but there is this kind of jarring transition where Pentangeli appears virtually out of nowhere - no appearance, not even a reference in GF I. (The Hyman Roth character also suffers from this 'out of nowhere' syndrome.)

I'm surprised they didn't throw in a short scene like the deleted scene on the DVD where the younger characters of Roth and Pentangeli are at least introduced to establish that they didn't just parachute into the movie in 1958.

It would have been better IMO to simply cast Gazza as Clemenza and take it from there.

Same thing with Hagen in GF III. To me one of the subtexts which develops toward the end of GF II is whether Hagen's loyalty is absolute. Michael indicates on a couple occasions that he has doubts about Hagen's loyalty (the 'can't i get a straight answer from you,' the job offer from the competing casino) and it certainly would have been interesting to see in the Sixties and Seventies how that relationship progressed.

I mean, we have the boathouse scene, where Michael tells Hagen, "You're my brother, Tom," and Hagen says, "I always wanted to be thought of as a brother - a real brother," which seems to indicate that Hagen is in for life. But don't forget that Hagen also knows what happens to Fredo. So I would guess that at some time in the future there would come a few "moments of truth" regarding Hagen's role in the family.

When Duvall wouldn't sign on they filled the script holes with George Hamilton doing the Hagen-as-lawyer role and the Andrew Hagen episodes for the 'family' end of it - which to me were complete throwaway scenes.

If I were FFC, if Duvall wouldn't sign on I would have recast the role - Michael Moriarity for instance is a guy who resembles Duvall and probably could have done a good job - and simply kept Tom Hagen in the completed script.
Posted By: Caporegime

Re: Who was missed more? - 02/08/04 07:38 AM

My vote would have to go to Duvall only because of how bad BJ fit into the trilogy. If it were up to me I'd have both Duvall and Castellano.
Posted By: The Scottish Don

Re: Who was missed more? - 02/08/04 10:22 AM

There was a deleted scene in part II showing Roth being introduced as a young man!

Even went to the detail of showing Vito giving Roth his "new" name!
Posted By: johnny ola

Re: Who was missed more? - 02/08/04 03:58 PM

Quote
In both cases, FFC should have just recast the characters rather than writing the characters out because the original actors would not return, and then writing in an almost identical character to take their place.
Enzo, I disagree. I think recasting the original actors would have diluted the appeal of the films. Yes they, subsituted DeNiro as Vito, but they were Vito at much different ages. Also it took a actor of DeNiros ability to portray a "young" Vito, following in the mold that Brando portrayed an "older" Vito. cool
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