One more time on the drapes and the killers

Am I crazy to bring this up again? NO! While watching the GFs on AMC - Mob Week, I got in conversation with my wife about the many theories surrounding 'who opened the drapes' and 'who killed the Tahoe killers'. Without any hestitation she said Johnny Ola did both. I was stunned. Simple, yet plausible. We don't know that he ever left after the party and he was a guest so he wouldn't be out of place in the house, "Oh, sorry, I was looking for a bathroom."

My apologies for not remembering if this theory was proposed.

And BTW, where did all those out-of-town guests stay? Was there a Marriott nearby or were there a few dozen guest cottages on the lake?

It could have been Johnny Ola or his men, but I think that Michael or any of his guards wouldn't allow Johnny Ola to walk freely in the compound. Maybe one of Johnny's men sneaked in the house and bedroom while Johnny Ola was meeting with Michael.

Of those two knotty questions:

More people than not believe Fredo opened the drapes.

"Who killed the Tahoe shooters?" is the longest-running unanswered question here.

Assuming Roth wanted Michael dead. His man Ola is on the grounds that day by invite along with his "men" (the shooters). Ola had orchestrated the attempt so he knew what the shooters were doing and where they would be on their escape route. Rather than risk them getting caught. POP! Motive and opportunity.

If you believe in symbology; Ola opened the drapes, but the assasination was not successful. Ola's death was successful when drapes fluttered around him and a clotheshanger was slipped around his neck.

I tend to think it wasn't Fredo. But maybe that's because I don't want it to be him...

Jeez, all these years later and you guys are still debating the "big" questions of life!! Hope everything and everyone is well!!

Hi Senza Mama

Nice to see you again!

I don't want it to be him either!

I think Fredo probably did both.

The reason I think he was inolved in killing the shooters was the fact that Fredo's wife was hysterically screaming they were "right outside my window!" Why would the be at Fredo's cottage unless they were told to go there "where they would be safe."

No way! it was Connie and Merle!

They were pissed off when Michael pulled their funds when they were on the Queen!

It is not that it is unanswered. It is just that some people refuse to listen to reason and accept the fact that it was Fredo!

Simple maybe, but very unlikely.... Roth would never take the chance on putting Johnny in a spot like that. They would have farmed it out to others and that way he would be in the clear, like having someone from the Rossattos do it, hence the guard saying, they look like they came from New York....It could be blamed on another group.

Oh, by the way...I think that no one stayed at the compound except family and staff ( like in New York) as you see when the alarm goes off and you see around the place.... also when Nerri say do you want them to leave now? As in out, It wasn't like they where shown to their room....

Based on logic, Fredo really is the most prominent suspect. Otherwise it must have been someone from the compounds's staff who was on Roth's payroll. But then that would have been revealed in the film.

However, we still have that phone call and that "dramatic" ending which loses all of its strength if it was in fact Fredo who had opened the drapes.

I didn't know it until today, but it was Manolo all along.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I think there's plenty of room for Fredo to have opened the drapes without knowing it was going to be a hit. Ola could have told him they needed to know when Michael was in the bedroom so that they search his office or something.

Regarding the drapes in general, I think that the sacrifice of Rocco argues that, at least at some point in the development of the story, Rocco was the traitor. These climatic bloodlettings are when Michael gets even, and I think Rocco is the only family member lost in them.

Finally, to get to the far fringe of possibility, I took a look at Copolla's "The Conversation" recently. Developed around the same time as GF2, The Conversation is a mystery steeped in ambiguity. It's possible that, even accounting for the script changes and edits, Copolla was intentionally making an ambiguous film.

I am not on board with all this "maybe Rocco was the traitor" business that floats around. Rocco's problem was that he was
stepped over by Neri who was the closest thing Michael had to an underboss, and I believe Rocco was always trying to gain favor with Michael. That's what Michael used to manipulate Rocco into volunteering to hit Roth.

DT, I too don't see evidence for Rocco as traitor. However, I don't agree that there was any rivalry between Neri and Rocco. Rocco was recruited by Clemenza while Neri was recruited by Mike and Vito; as the novel states, he was a special who received a salary. If Neri was acting in the capacity of an underboss, then it is he who would have directed Rocco to construct a secret regime. I don't see Rocco as dealing directly with Michael.

Like anyone committed to that life, Rocco accepted that he would be called upon to do dangerous and difficult work. I don't see him as manipulated by Michael or ever trying to gain favor with Michael.

You are right Oli, but I think Rocco, because of his seniority
felt a tinge of hurt, jealousy or whatever that Neri was
closer to Michael. Rocco was probably a bit more "old school." For instance, he would never be smirking when Michael
was humiliating Tom Hagen, as Neri was.

Youknow DT, I have never noticed that Neri smirk. Several Board members apparently have. When exactly does it occur?

Neri smirked when Michael told Tom, in the penultimate boat house scene, that he could take his family, wife and mistress and move them to Vegas. The camera focusing on Neri's smirk told me that Neri was the source of that info.

Oh No, not the smirk again!
So just the smirk told you that Neri was some sort of rat...

Remember that Tom was in full command of everything when Michael was away...would he be dumb enough to make that kind of play knowing that Tom was up on top.

Maybe he never liked that Tom (the so called family lawyer) got the nod instead of a capo?

or maybe he was just glad to see Tom being taken down a notch or two now that the boss was back. Or maybe like in any group, he was glad to see someone else being picked on.

Hell, maybe he had just cut the cheese for all we really know. Hell we can all read into things if we want.

See one of the major problem with this film is that FFC had to cut, cut, and cut some more to get it down to a time that the studio would accept. So many things were left hanging and so many parts seem not to fit at times. Maybe if it was all left in and we were shown so much more, then maybe just maybe we would know about the drapes, the killers and so many other things that we have turned into folk law.

Man you have to love this movie tho....


and the people who enjoy it.....

I too think that Neri was the source of the info.

Seemed like Micheal was playing everyone off against each other, you get a sense of the competition between Tom, Rocco, Neri and even Fredo throughout part II.

Okay. When II is shown again, I'll look for that scene. After watching it for the umpteenth time, I should have caught it by now. But that's why we watch it so much.