Corleone bosses. Timeline

Once again, sorry for my english :
Well,I want to comment on the topic of the hierarchy of the Corleone family. I am not very sure of these observations, for this reason, if there are mistakes, say it please. Your help is professional. The aim is to know the hierarchy from the beginnings up to the end.

Vito Corleone: 1919/1933-1950

1919: according to Puzo, it is the date when Vito kills Fanucci and he would turn into boss of a gang, with Clemenza and Tessio.He takes business related to the alcohol during the Prohibition. They coexist with the Black Hand.
1933: according to Puzo and Winegardner Castellammare war is produced. Vito kills Maranzano. He takes a purge of gangs and families until they remain 5 (according to Winegardner), 5 or 6 (according to Puzo). The purge would last approximately 3 years (according to Puzo) or less (according Winegardner). Vito proposes the creation of a Commission (according to Puzo). 1919 would be the date when the gang is born and 1933 would be the "official" date of the creation of the Family as one of the 5, and when there would be created "officially" Cosa Nostra.
1950: Vito retires and Michael replaces him.

When Vito is hurt, I do not believe that Sonny Corleone is boss officially. In my oppinion, he would be as a underboss. Well, if you believe that it is something bad, post it please .

Later, i will continue with Michael. With him i have more doubts.

"Acting Boss." is more of an appropriate title for Sonny.


Don Cardi

I tried to draw up an accurate Corleone family Boss timeline once. I figured about the following. Sorry my years aren't quite accurate, I'm just reprinting this from memory.

Vito Corleone (1919/1933 - 1950)
- Santino Corleone (Acting Boss 1947? - 1949?)
Michael Corleone (1950 - 1979/1997 not sure if he steps down or just goes until he dies)
- Tom Hagen (Acting Boss 1958 - 1959)
- Nick Geraci (Acting Boss, depends if you want to count him)
Vincent Mancini (1979/1997 - present)

Forget Winegardner. He has no more credibility than you or I or anyone else.

In fact, he may have less.

Plaw,
,
as always...

On what do you base this? He killed Fanucci in 1919, but wasn't exactly a Don back then. And the 1933 was something about the novel I think, the year Corleone soldiers killed Maranzano.

Nick Geraci is not an acting boss, he was supposed to be the new official boss, but it was a trap made by Michael to make Geraci know he was retired.

Julio, cuando yo tenga tiempo y las ganas quiero hacer un timeline desde el nacimiento de Vito Corleone hasta lo que se sabe hasta 1997 hasta la muerte de Michael, pues tengo que sacar info de los libros de Mario Puzo "Godfather" y "The Sicilian"(detalla como regresa Michael de Sicilia), el libro de Winegardner aunque muchos no lo cuenten aunque un par de detalles estaría bueno rescatar, hay algunas cosas lógicas que podríamos tomar en cuenta. Esta pagina, los DVD, las 3 películas y la 4 si algun día se dignan en hacerla.

Si, si!

What did he say?

Dunno.

Wouldn't Joey Zasa have been a "Corleone Boss?" By then, Mike was out of the rackets and even out of legitimate casinos. I think they mention that Zasa had taken over what was the Corleone terriotry and that he operated independent of Michael.

Forget Winegardner. He has no more credibility than you or I or anyone else.
In fact, he may have less. [/QB][/QUOTE]


yes, if we could... but unfortunately the winegarnder´s book is official history of the godfather too.

Already I say that they are symbolic dates. It was to put a date of when Vito turns into a boss of "gang". Because of i say 1919. In this date, according to Puzo's book, Vito kills Fanucci, acquires respect, but he does not become in a mafioso immediately. He associated with Genco in the business of the oil. Later he obtains the monopoly based on violence (it is the first time that the book mentions criminal acts on the part of Vito). But the real beginning as "gangster" is during the Prohibition, which begins in 1919. And they will call "Don" Vito, according to Puzo, with the Great Depression ( from 1930).
1933: it is also a symbolic date. According to Puzo, in the New Year's Eve of 1933 Vito kills Maranzano and begins the purge of the families, gangs, Black Hand ... until to staying with 5 or 6 families. It is established the system of 5 families in NY and "officially" born La Cosa Nostra, and the Corleone family was one of them. Also it is possible to establish the date in 1936, because, according to Puzo, to appease and to purge NY of gangs until to staying with all 5 families it was necessary 3 years. Also Puzo says that Vito raised the creation of bosses committee: the Commission.
And according to Winegardner (already I know that he is a hated man), in 1933 Vito kills Maranzano and it begins the Castellammare War, the war that purges the families and gangs and would reorganize them until to staying with 5 families. Also he says that Vito turned in capo di tutti capi.
My conclusion is that the beginning of Vito as boss of a gang would be aprox. in 1919-1920 and as "official" boss of one of all 5 families his beginning would be between 1933-1936.

También era esa mi intención. Poco a poco lo iremos completando . De momento estoy investigando con vuestra ayuda la lista oficial de los bosses de la familia Corleone.

the idea is to do a complete timeline... according to DVDs, Puzo, Winegardner, The Sicilian, this web...

Tomorrow, if I can, I will continue with Michael, I have some doubts (Pentangelli, Clemenza, Zaza, Geraci...)

Sorry Julio, I forgot to read your complete post.

Por supuesto Julio, esta es una de las razones por la cual me gusta The Godfather, no es una simple película que solo se limita a ser mirada en el cine y listo. Eso es para la gente "común", porque es una película (o historia mejor dicho porque se basa en el libro) que te hace pensar y hay "puntos oscuros" como los años que no están cubiertos, llamados los "missing years", descubrir más profundamente a los personajes y sus intenciones, rescatando info de otros libros y sacando conclusiones.

Hi, first, i have doubts about Michael and his "reign". If something is wrongs or if you have another opinion, please, tell it. I would like expert opinions . As always, sorry for my bad english.

Maybe Michael is boss between 1950 and 1980. In 1955 he kills Barzini, Tatagglia ... and he retires to Nevada " legally ". As boss of NY's Family it is not very logical that he retires to another city without leaving supervised by the Family a successor. This case remembers me the Joe Bonanno's life, " officially retired " in Arizona but with great influence on his Family. Therefore, there must be a boss that must remain in NY. For example, if John Gotti, boss in NY, was retired to another city and continue as boss of his Family. It is illogical, and the Commission would not accept it. Joe Bonanno was seen badly by the Commission and it "exiled" him.
So, Winergardner says that Mike retires with Kay to Las Vegas and rapidly later to Tahoe (theoretically he will be in the legality) and Clemenza takes charge of NY's business. Therefore, probably Clemenza should be at least acting boss (why not boss?). Anyhow, Mike always is in the Commission and other Families considered him the person more important of his Family and, besides, Mike names Clemenza as consigliere, it complicate the situation and this provokes that Clemenza is not seen as an authentic boss. Clemenza dies in 1957. In the Godfather II, the manager of the business in NY is Frank Pentangeli, so probably he would be the successor of Clemenza as acting boss. Equally, though Mike is not in NY, he is considered the boss of the Family. This is strange, and theoretically, I believe that must not be tolerated by the Commission. Later, when Pentangeli kills himself, I do not know who is the "boss" in NY, I suppose that Mike is the "only " boss, though I do not believe that he was in NY and he was remaining in Nevada. Winegardner does not say anything on the period between 1959 (when The Godfather II finishes) and 1961. In 1961, according to Winegardner, the new boss in NY would be Nick Geraci, chosen by Mike. This resigns "again " to NY's business. Geraci is the "official" boss of Corleone family. In fact, this situation is the same that Clemenza and Pentangeli's situation (acting bosses?), because Mike is in the Commission and they consider him the most influential person of his Family. In 1962 Geraci flees and Mike will be "again" boss. Mike returns to NY.

I expect not to have bored you. bye

So... what do you think?
Michael Corleone: 1950-55
Pete Clemenza: 1955-1957 (acting boss?)
Frank Pentangeli: 1957-1959 (acting boss?)
Michael Corleone...or another person : 1959-1961
Fausto Dominick “Nick” Geraci: 1961-1962

Julio, es muy lógico tu planteo en el anterior post, con respecto a Joseph Bonnano, si bien tiene cierta influencia en la Comisión, no lo tiene mucho en su familia, Carmine Galante era un loco irreversible y resentido, pensó que podría ser mejor jefe que Bonnano, y empezó a hacer desastres lo cual Bonnano no pudo evitar, pero la comisión ordenó su ejecución por atentar contra la tumba de Frank Costello e insultar a Carlo Gambino.
Con respecto a la línea de jefes podríamos decir que si seguimos el argumento de Mark Winegardner podríamos decir que después de Nick Fausto Geraci podría seguir Joey Zasa ya que según EL PADRINO 3 Michael le da el territorio de New York desde no sé qué año hasta 1979

Respecto a la sucesión de bosses, me parece un tanto ilógico que Mike sea boss sin residir en NY, y que además las demás Familias no se opongan a este hecho, sino lo contrario, lo tengan en alta estima y lo acepten como boss.

In the Godfather III (1979) the "new” boss in NY is Joey Zaza. Anyhow, like always, he seems an acting boss because Mike is considered again the most important person of his Family by the other bosses. When Zaza dies Mike will be boss again, until in 1980 in Sicily, when Vincent is nominated as successor. Will he be the definitive boss?

-Vito Corleone: 1919/1933-1950 (BOSS)
Santino “Sonny” Corleone: 1948 (acting boss)
-Michael Corleone: 1950-1980 (BOSS)
Pete Clemenza: 1955-1957 (acting boss?)
Frank Pentangeli: 1957-1959 (acting boss?)
Michael Corleone...or another person : 1959-1961
Fausto Dominick “Nick” Geraci: 1961-1962
Michael Corleone... or another person: 1962 -?
Joey Zaza: ?-1980
Michael Corleone: 1980-1980
-Vincent Corleone: 1980- ? (BOSS)

What do you think? Yours opinions, please ...

when was Peter Clemenza and Pentangeli boss?


Joe Batters

Peter Clemenza was not acting-Boss of the Corleone Family. He was Caporegime. He was also a highly ranked member of a small gang in Little Italy. Frankie Pentangeli was not acting-Boss of the Corleone Family. He was Caporegime. He succeeded Peter Clemenza as Caporegime after he had died. Joey Zasa was not even a member of the Corleone Family. He was Boss of a completely different Family which operates in the Corleone Family's former territories (he was given permission by the Commission to operate in the Corleone Family's former territories) - This does not mean he was a member of the Corleone Family.

This post shows the only Bosses of the Corleone Family. There were no others, according to Francis Ford Coppola and Mario Puzo.

Vito Corleone (Boss): ?-1950
Santino Corleone (acting-Boss): 1948-1948
Michael Corleone (Boss): 1950-1958
Tom Hagen (acting- Boss): 1958-1959
Michael Corleone (Boss): 1959-1979
Vincent Corleone (Boss): 1979-present

Yes, they were caporegimes. But according to Winegardner and The Godfather II, Clemenza and Pentangeli supervise the NY businesses (a big caporegimes?) while Mike resides in Nevada until 1962, when he returns to NY. Mike is boss of a NY´s Family and meanwhile he lives in a another State (Nevada)??... it´s rare.
Is it possible that Clemenza and Pentangeli were nominally a sort of acting bosses in NY, with more power than a current caporegime?
Thanks

I thought that Zaza was a member of the Corleone family.
In the Godfather III, they was present at the Commission meeting:

Tattaglia Family: Don Altobello
Cuneo Family: Leo Cuneo
Corleone family: Michael (I thought that Zaza was the boss because Mike is retired)
Barzini family: ?
Stracci Family: ?

Frank Romano, Matty Parisi, Albert Volpe... are dons that were in the meeting

So, Zaza, Which is his Family?
Bye

There is a part in GFII that goes like this :

PENTANGELI : "Champaign, Uh, Champaign Cocktails -- and you're passing judgment on how I run my Family."


MICHAEL (in Sicilian) : "Your Family -- Your Family's still called Corleone. And you'll run it like a Corleone."


That tells me that even though Frankie was the "Boss" in New York, and may have had a free hand in making decisions in how things were run in New York, he still was under and had to answer to Michael on major issues. He still was considered part of The Corleone family. Under their protection. A subsidiary.

His just coming to Michael with this major problem proves that he was still under the command of The Corleone Family.


Don Cardi

How do you figure that what Winegardner wrote is "official history" of The Godfather, too?

Because Random House, Puzo's former publisher gave him an advance to write a book?

Sorry if I'm belaboring this point, but this is a sore spot with me. Mario Puzo and Francis Ford Coppola had nothing to do with it.

They created the characters and brought them to life

There's nothing "official" about anything that Winegardner wrote. It's nothing but his opinion.

One author cannot expand upon the work of another and claim that his story is "official".

I don't care how many books he'e published in the past, how much advance money he got to write this one, how much the estate or family of Mario Puzo may have authorized it....it makes absolutely no differnce.

I'm with you on this one Plaw.

He screwed up so many timelines, so many references, and the book had so many inconsistancies. He proved that he did NOT do his homework. He did not have a passion for this movie as we do. Nothing that he's said or done with regards to The Godfather is valid in my eyes. Nothing.

For pete's sake at the very begining, when we all started reading this book, we ALL picked up the same mistake. I don't recall exactly what it was, but something to do with mixing up someone who was in Clemenza's regime with Tessio's regime. A detail that the average GF fan would know.

This guy sucked in plain english.

At least GFIII had some consistancy to it, and it somewhat continued the story of most of the characters from I and II.

Godfather III blows The Godfather Returns away big time.

What's that tell you?


Don Cardi

And another thing, ( now you got me all wound up about this Winegardner, Plaw) this guy was handed a whole base of characters on a silver platter! Characters that FFC and Puzo developed in GFII. Characters like Pentangeli, Hyman Roth, etc. that most Godfather fans would have loved to know more detail about. Instead this money making opportunist drops the ball and spends 1/4 of the book on a Nick Geraci, another 1/4 on Sonny's daughters ( which he screwed up also ) and another 1/4 on Fredo being gay! Give me a break.

The guy didn't even know how to take the ball and run with it. No one in his path and he fumbles BIG time!

Don't get me started Plaw about Godfather Returns.

A disgrace to the Godfather Legacy.


Don Cardi

Too bad, DC. He's getting another crack at sh*tting on the GF films by way of The Godfather's Revenge...

I thought you were breaking my b**ls here. THen I do a search and find out that you are telling the truth! OMG!
Here:
"The Corleones are coming back. Using the assassination of President Kennedy as a plot element, a new novel by Mark Winegardner, who wrote the 2004 best seller "The Godfather Returns" with the permission of the estate of Mario Puzo, is in the works. G. P. Putnam's Sons, an imprint of Penguin Group U.S.A., expects to publish "The Godfather's Revenge" next year."

I love the part in this article that says : "..who wrote the 2004 BEST SELLER The Godfather Returns.


A month after it's original release, you could find them all over the bargain book tables.


Don Cardi

I won't waste my money again.

It was only a best-seller because it said GODFATHER on the cover... Obviously.

Yes you will. Just like I will. We're GF whores. See my post about exactly this over in the GF Returns Thread.


Don Cardi

You're damn right, too.

I'm with you on this one Don Cardi, Plaw, and others. Really I have not liked the Winegardner's novel.
I only wanted to solve some doubts about ranks and hierarchies . Already I have understood that Clemenza and Pentangeli are caporegimes always (though Mike does not reside in NY).

A question:If Zaza does not belong to the Corleone family (I suppose that he belongs to the Barzini or Stracci family) who was going to be the successor of Mike in the Corleone family before Vincent's arrival?
Thanks in advance

I understand the reason for the thread Julio, but if you imply again that Weingardner's book is in any way, shape, or form, authoritative or "official", or include any of his characters or ideas in another timeline or discussion, then I may have to kill you (j/k).



(Sorry, this is a bit of a sore spot with me.)

BTW....excellent point, Don Cardi, about all of those characters on the silver platter.

Maybe "The Return of The Godfather's Return" will be better.

As far as your question above goes, Julio.....

The movie doesn't give us an answer, so we can only speculate.

From the end of the novel, I have the impression that the Barzini and Tattaglia families are "broken up", altho GF II contradicts this when Neri (I think it was) saya to Michael at one point that Fabrizzio's entrance to the United States was sponsored by the Barzini Family.

My guess is that Zasa was an "up-and-comer" within the Corleone Family itself, a Capo perhaps, who was considered capable of taking over the NY operations, and was granted a large (but not complete) degree of autonomy to do so, in exchange for a percentage of profits to Michael.

As far as who would run the family upon Michael's death goes, I think Michael figured by the time he passed on that the family would be completely legitimate, and aside from lawyers and executives to look after the family business interests, there would be no need for anyone to run the family in the way that you're thinking.

Probably a top executive along the lines of someone who was capable of heading a company like General Motors or U.S. Steel would have done the trick.

Wasn't Zasa an upcoming protegé of Altobelle who was also a Capo in the Corleone family, like other Capi like Clemenza, Rocco and Pentangeli?

Zasa and Altobello were allies, as we learn later, but I don't think that there is any indication that he was a protegé of Altobello, or that Altobello is part of Michael's crime family in any way.

Michael was the most powerful organized crime leader in America, so all of the other Dons were, in a sense, "under" him or, to an extent, his "rule", but I don't see where Altobello was a Capo under Michael or anything like that.

Wat was the deal then about Altobello? Was he a Corleone-friend who took over the Barzini, Tattaglia, Cuneo, or Stracci familiy?

Or...maybe has was Capo of the 6th family.
There you go Plaw, I solved your mistery.
There are indeed 6 families. But the sixth worked somehow together with the Corleone. So they weren't punished in the 5-families-murder.
Zasa was a capo, or underboss that eventually took over the family after Altobello retired on a way Vito also did.

Comparing the Cosa Nostra structure of the movie to the reality, I think that all 5 Families must continue existing, with the same name or with different name for each one. I was going to post a thing about this topic but I will not do it because it is based on Winegardner, and already I know that I am cordially and politely threatened

In the Godfather III, Al Neri says to Mike, after the Commission: “The old Dons were pretty much wiped out. The ones that survived, made deals with Joey Zasa”. In fact I don´t know if Zaza is within Corleone family or if he is a strange .

Yes, Mike tries to retire and to legitimize his (real) family. But I think that the structure of all 5 Families should not break because the 5 families always will exist. So I suppose that the " criminal part " of the Corleone family is transfered and directed by other persons, like for example Zasa.

Altobello was a boss of the Tattaglia Family (according to Winegardner ). He took over from Rico Tattaglia, Phillip´s brother