Wasn't no heart-attack

If Cicci and Pentangli thought the Rosato brothers killed CLemenza and he didn't die of a heartattack why didn't he mention that to Mike??? Or was that even the Case?



Joe Batters

The harm was already done.
Michael didn't react to the Rosato's because Pentangeli could take the NY-business over.

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To add to what Enzio has said, If the Rosattos were responsible for the death of Clemenza, Michael was not going to jeopordize his negotiations or his deals with Hyman Roth. At this stage of the game his relationship with Roth was more important. If you remember, Frankie tells Mike that he wants to go after some people, and Mike refuses, telling Frankie that he does NOT want anything to interfere with his relationship with Roth.


Don Cardi

I am speculating here, but I would guess that the differences between Clemenza and the Rosatos were "personal" as much as they were "business." If they killed Clemenza but left the money making opeartions in the Corleone family, Michael would not have gone to war over it. Mike was more concerned that Pentangeli had welched on a deal Clemenza had made with then because he wanted no sign of trouble because of the Roth deal.

All true, but let's turn it around. Were the Rosato's really so important for Roth?

They were ranked lower than a Caporegime, they were no top-guys.

You are right, the Rosatos were "small potatoes" to Roth. However the deal in which they were to get more money on which Pentangeli welched would have been something Roth owuld have watched closely, because that had to do with money. It would have also been something Pentangeli would have been powerless to do without Michael's approval.

I always had the impression from Cicci's comment that the Rosatos didn't kill Clemenza outright, but (I know this sounds silly, but I can't think of a better way to express it) "aggravated him to death".

So he died of "natural causes" brought about by his troubles with the Rosatos.

How would Fredo have had the impression that it was a heart attack otherwise?

Could be Plaw. Clemenza's arteries may have been a tad clogged.

"That was no heart attack." I always took it that Clemenza was poisoned. Just something that was always in the back of my head.

Weren't there autopsies back then? Maybe the poison was masked or the tests not as sophisticated. We never hear what Willie and Frankie thought was the cause. The implications was the Rosatos. How else but poison?

Since no further explanation is suggested as to how Clemenza died, it is anyone's choice to decide what happened to him. Poison would be the most logical assumption, but it's a moot point.

The main point insinuated by the statements of Cicci and then Frankie is that Clemenza was dead, it wasn't from natural causes and the Rosatto Bros. were somehow involved.

Exactly HOW Clemenza died is clearly not an essential part of the story (nor is the how Tom died by the time of GFIII)... unless one care's to explore the cause as terminal narcissm by the actor who would've continued to portray him.

Apple

I believe that the Rosato brothers were the Gallo brothers in real life. I think that Cicci's remark about Clemenza's possible heart attack was a reference to the possible poisoning of one of Joe Bonanno's capos possibly engineered by the Gallo brothers or to Joe Profaci's actual heart attack (since I think that Clemenza is Joe Profaci in real life).

Yes. FFC always made some parallels to real life. In real life, ca. 1960, Joe (Joe Jelly) Gioelli operated some gambling joints in Joe Profaci's territory but didn't pay tribute. Profaci promised the Gallo brothers (a faction in his family) Jelly's territories if they whacked him. They whacked him. Profaci welshed. So the Gallos kidnapped several high ranking members of Profaci's family and held them hostage (sounding familiar?). Profaci arranged a sitdown with the Commission. The Commission ordered the hostages released, and Profaci to give the territories to the Gallos. They complied, he didn't. So the went to the mattresses. In another parallel: Larry Gallo was lured to a bar in Brooklyn that was closed. There he was garotted and almost killed--except that a policeman happened by and broke it up.
Profaci died of cancer, not a heart attack. But in another parallel: Profaci's brother-in-law, Joe Magliocco, took over. He plotted with Joe Bonanno to whack out Carlo Gambino and Tommy Lucchese. The plot was ratted out by Joe Columbo, a captain in Magliocco's family. Magliocco was called out by the Commission, paid a fine, retired, died of a heart attack. Columbo then became boss.

According to THE GODFATHER RETURNS, Clemenza might die by heart attack, but it does not explain the cause exacly, he might be poisoned by his 2 bodyguards. Winegardner explains something about the Rosatto Brothers, but not clearly.
Clemenza`s death and his relationship with the Rosatto Brothers is one the most mysterious things in GF, Tom Hagen`s death too. Nobody says who The Rosatto Brothers were, soldiers or caporegimes in the Corleone Family, or whatever.

Just so you know Don Pappo, since you're new here.....

Weingardner's opinion of how Clemenza died has no more validity than anyone else's here.

In fact, it has less, given that I can think of any number of members here who are far more familiar with the original book, films, characters, etc.

In any case, welcome. You must be a real fan to have read The Godfather Returns, and even more so if you finished it.

Plawrence, haha yes, I am a fan, and I finished, I don`t recomend the book, but I guess everyone would read it to have an opinion, there are many things that bothered me in this book.