Scarface this... Scarface that...

Hey, is anyone else tired of Scarface being mentioned when discussions of The Godfather or La Cosa Nostra movies, period, arise? This is NOT a mafia movie.

FWIW - I agree with you.

You'll notice that Geoff has separated the "Scarface" discussions into a separate forum, but it is truly a gangster movie (if not a MAFIA movie).

hmmm... thanks SC, I got you. It just kinda gets under my skin when it's mentioned in the same likes of Godfather, Goodfellas, Casino, etc. I was just wondering others' thoughts and wasn't really sure where the thread belonged, but didn't really want to place it in the Scarface section as I didn't wanna offend any fans who may find this offensive.

The discussion probably doesn't belong here (in this forum) either, but its no big deal.

I don't know why anyone would be offended by your argument. IMO, its clearly NOT a Mafia movie, but I suppose some could confuse a "gangster" movie with a Mafia movie.

Fuck dose cockroaches if they're offended!!

lol... :-D

Except for the foul language, I concur.

That was for the benefit of the "Scarface" fans.

Is the distinction just a Cuban vs Italian origin or do you see something fundamentally different that they cannot be classified in the same genre? Especially since you mention other movies like Casino and Goodfellas in the same breath as Godfather...

Define the genre. If it is "Mafia" (i.e. Italian organized crime), then "Scarface" doesn't belong there. I think that's what FrankWhite was saying, and I agree. Otherwise, as a "gangster" movie (be it Cuban or Columbian or whatever) I WOULD include it in the same genre.

There is not just a difference ... there is a gulf. The Godfather is truly in a class by itself. In fact, The Godfather invented that class. Its production quality, its depth, its portrayals, ... and on, and on. Scarface was one-dimensional and predictable, and the denouement of its main character was anti-climatic.

I was referring to the "gangster/mob" as a genre. I think we are in agreement then.

Olivant, I personally find Godfather to be of much higher quality in direction, acting, music, cinematography etc. etc. But genre is seldom defined in terms of quality, right? Bad comedy is still comedy!

Well, if you want to go that far, is a little league game the same as a National League or American League game? Of course not. They're both baseball, right? But they're really not the same, are they?. It's the same with movies. Some of them are just not in the same league with other movies even though they deal with the same subject. In such cases, there is such a world of difference that it actually makes genre moot.

"Fock Emilo Barzini, and Fock dee Fockin Tattaglia Brothas, I buree dem cocakarochez!"


Now that just does not work in a Mafia movie.

I agree. While Scarface is a ganster movie, it is definitely not a mafia movie by any means. And as much as I love Scarface, it does not even come close to a movie like The Godfather.

no no no... svsg. that is not the point. Scarface is about the rise and fall of one man (Tony Montana). La Cosa Nostra is about the "family". The Godfather portrays this dynamic to the "tee" (which I never knew what that expression means but anyway... lol). And that is the dynamic that I am in search of when I endulge in mafia movies, not "shoot em up... bang bang". That is not what I look for.

I've only seen "Scarface" three or four times, but I'll put in my two cents:
First, neither "Scarface" nor GF is a gangster film, per se. "Scarface" is about the rise and fall of an individual--rags to riches to grave--with immigration and its opportunities as the defining milieu. GF is about a family, with the Mafia as the defining milieu. But it isn't a Mafia movie. To make an analogy: "Gone with the Wind" is a movie about a family, with the US Civil War as the defining milieu. But it isn't a Civil War movie per se.
Second, "Scarface" has a tremendous following, centered, IMO, on the Tony Montana character as played by Pacino as the most over-the-top gangster in film history. "The World Is Yours..." GF is infinitely more refined, nuanced, complex...absorbing. But, to each his own...

Not a Mafia movie!!!???

I think those lights in the sky over Arizona last night sent down some rays that "affected" your thinking.

Exactly. And as such, Scarface doesn't even come close to the nuance of The Godfather. It doesn't even come close to the depth of The Godfather. Scarface feeds on itself; The Godfather feeds at a buffet.

The dry air cured me of being wet behind the ears...

Yeah... I think TB kinda reiterated some of my same sentiments, BUT, I have to disagree with GF not being a mafia film, afterall, that's mafioso is about... the Family.

Mafia is about the Family, not the family. The GF as about the family.

I have to agree with you Frank. While the main theme of the GF Trilogy is about the family and how their business affected it, it is, in my opinion, a Mafia movie that is also about The Family.

hmmm... good point Oliv. I can see where you're coming from with that, but I think it's more about the Family than you're accepting. see, without the Family, this family would not have any of the plot developments that it has. See, with La Cosa Nostra, lines between the Family and the family become so ambiguous, that it's pretty much synonomous.

and I agree with you too DC.

Yes, but you could have similar plot developments in any number of mileus. The Family is simply relationships and those relationships could exist in those milieus.

I think I need hip waders in this thread.

ROFL!!! May this thread R.I.P for DC's sake

Care to share some of that good stuff that you seem to be taking lately before making your replies? Maybe then we would be able to understand where you've been attempting to come from...or perhaps go to!





Not for my sake, but for the sake of us all!

As the Col. say's " save the watches"

or about the Mafia, with a family as the defining milieu.