If Sonny hadn't died

What does everyone here think might have happened to the Corleone family if Sonny hadn't been killed? Being the oldest, he would have been the natural successor when the Don died, but what would have happened when Michael returned from Sicily?

Michael would have challenged his authority.

I think it would have ended the Corleone family seeing as Sonny had a hot temper he would have went to war with all the families and destroyed what power the family had with Vito's political contacts.

It's a moot question because Sonny would've eventually been killed anyway simiply due to his hotheadedness, violent nature and inability to think a matter through and negotiate. This is made evident several times prior to his death.

Sonny would've been a horrible Don, a disaster for the Corleone Family - he had already begun to shun Tom's advice - and would not have lasted much longer even without Carlo's assistance to Barzini.

It was Michael's destiny...not Santino's.

Apple

also Fredo was older than Michael. My point is that Michael could have become the Don even with Sonny alive. I believe age wouldn't matter in terms of the survival of the family.

I think that as long as Sonny was alive, Michael would not have had the desire to be Don. Nor would he have been the kind of Don he ended up becoming. Doesn't anyone see that Michael Corleone's life was the result of his reactions series of events? Without the attempted hit on his father he wouldn't have even been involved in the Family Business!!

Sonny's murder (and also Appolonia's though intended for him) was another one of those life altering events that gave Michael the drive he wouldn't necessarily have had if he'd returned from Sicily to big brother Don Santino...no matter how bad of a Don he was.

And 'Don Lights' ... of COURSE age had nothing to do with it, or Fredo would've been running the family from the moment of Sonny's death.

Apple

You gotta love these types of threads, they seem to pop up every couple of months. I disagree, Mike probably would have become what he wanted to be and not become too involved with his family. Vito could have taught Sonny more with the time he had,(he probably wouldnt have taught Michael "I never wanted this for you") and Sonny might have matured and listened to his father's advice and become less hot-headed. You dont want to turn him into someone like Fredo who was afraid of the action, you need someone like Sonny to defend the Family.

I think the more pressing question is what would've happened if the Don weren't shot.

Of course it's a trick question but still, too intriuging to ignore.

Sollozzo probably would've gotten a job at the fruit stand because without Don Vito's protection he could not have gotten his drug business off the ground and of course killing him was out of the question because that would be....well, just WRONG!

If the Don weren't shot then Michael would've remained in Manhattan with Kay, married her within a few months and gone back to school.

And the novel would've ended right there and of course there would be no film based on such a boring story and none of us would be here discussing this stuff and oh, how empty our lives would be!!!

So...that's my theory.

Apple

Apple, I was giving my opinion on bella's comment.
Being the oldest, he would have been the natural successor when the Don died, but what would have happened when Michael returned from Sicily? Posted by Bella.
also Fredo was older than Michael. My point is that Michael could have become the Don even with Sonny alive. I believe age wouldn't matter in terms of the survival of the family. Posted by Lights
My Point was that age didn't matter with the choosing of the next Don. Also Don Vito Corleone believed that every man had one destiny and he belived that Michael's destiny was to become the head of the family.

Except that Michael would not EVER have become Don while Sonny was alive. Hard to explain, but because of the family dynamics - and this is just the immediate family meaning the brothers, NOT the Corleone Empire - such a thing would not have been permitted to happen.

Don Sonny Corleone:
"Mike probably would have become what he wanted to be and not become too involved with his family. Vito could have taught Sonny more with the time he had..."

Apple

How come Tom Hagen became consligere then? I believe that Michael still had a chance to become head of the family after Vito retired.

Not sure what your point is this time.

Can you explain how Tom Hagen becoming consligere figures into this ?

Thanks,
Apple

I assumed that because Sonny took over in a temporary capacity as soon as the Don was shot, that this was because he was the oldest. There does seem to be some element of succession because remember in GFII - Fredo tells Michael he should have been the next in line after Sonny's death, but that he was looked over. He obviously assumed it was his right as the second oldest and that's why he felt so bitter and cheated.

I also think that Valadius is right - Michael would have challenged Sonny's authority on his return from Sicily. I can imagine him fixing Sonny with his icy-cool stare and calmly telling him that he was going to run things now. He was a very persuasive man. God only knows what Sonny's reaction would have been. That's one "discussion" I wouldn't mind seeing. Of course this is all speculation, but as Apple says, it was Michael's destiny.

Tom Hagen is Irish, not even Italian. It broke tradition that Don Vito Corleone choose Tom Hagen, as in the past the consligere has always been of Italian descent, I think sicilian descent but I don't know for sure. Don Vito Corleone's choice of person shows he was smarter than to rely on tradition and instead knowing Michael would make the ideal Don would have picked Michael over Santino.

Tom Hagen was taken in as a boy by Vito and his wife and was raised as their son. It's a little different than Vito simply breaking tradition by going out and getting himself an Irish consiligere. (German/Irish - to be exact)

Additionally, I do not think Vito would have 'picked' Michael over Sonny as Don. He wouldn't do that to Santino. He hadn't even wanted Michael involved in the Family Business; his aspirations for his youngest son went far beyone that (Senator Corleone...Governor Corleone...).

No, if Sonny had survived until Michael returned home from Italy he would have continued to serve as Acting Don, and as someone wisely posted Vito might have had more time to offer him some guidance before taking over completely.

But again...Sonny could not have survived much longer even without the hit on the Causeway. He would have been eliminated sooner or later, it was just a matter of time.

Apple

he wouldnt have been don. Vito said he wouldnt have made a good don

I believe that The Godfather would have assessed the strengths and limitations of Santino and Michael and gone with Michael. If nothing else, The Don was unsentimental and practical in matters of business, and Sonny simply didn't have the temperment to be a don.

He would not have "...gone with Michael...", because without Sonny's death Michael would have had not interest or desire in becoming Don...there would have been no choosing between the two on Vito' part, because by Vito's own admission this is not what he wanted for Michael.

Apple

I think Sonny was a very bad Don Michael's much better

Sonny being dead. Who is left to run the family besides Michael Corleone? Vito knew his time was running out and he needed a successor. Michael loved his father and his family, he was a hero and he would have eventually figured this and take rein of the empire.

Michael is very loving and protective and he has a heart but he was just being strong for the family just like Vito was and I think he really looked up to Vito in a way