Tessio's last test?

We've had several threads here on why Michael made Carlo identify Barzini as the one who approached him about setting up Sonny. Some here think it was a final test for Carlo; others believe that, maybe, Michael needed "justification" from Carlo's lips before whacking him.

In a parallel vein: Before Vito died, he warned Michael: "Whoever comes to you with this Barzini meeting, he's the traitor." Sure enough, Tessio proposed the meeting at Vito's burial. From that moment on, there was no doubt in Michael's or Tom's minds that Tessio was a traitor. BUT...

Is it possible that, when Cicci said, "Sal, Tom, the boss says for you to go on ahead and he'll come later," he was really expressing Michael's final test for Tessio? If Tessio had said, "Sure, ok, we'll catch up," then maybe Michael would have had doubts about Tessio's guilt. On the other hand, when Tessio replied, "Hell, he can't do that, it screws up all my plans," it was final confirmation of his guilt. What do you think?

Great question TB!

Michael was NOT yet the man his father was at the end of Part 1 or by the end of the novel (take your pick).

Being that he needed to see with his own eyes that Carlo was, indeed, guilty, I think your theory may have some merit to it.

Michael may have felt the need to test Tessio one last time, for final confirmation.

Good question TB, but I don't think so. For instance had Tessio said (as maybe he should have to outsmart Michael) ..
"Yeah sure, I'll change my arrangements" what would Tom and Cicci and the rest have done? Waited areound for Michael to give them new orders?

Michael never intended to go to that meeting, and he believed Tessio was guilty.

As for Carlo, Michael got no such direct warning (that we saw) from his father, although it is a fact that Michael announced openly that Carlo would be his "right hand man" in Vegas. Since Vito made it very clear to Tom that Carlo should get a living but, he should NEVER know anythning about the family bisiness, Vito had to have discussed with Michael why this ruse was happening, and I would deduce that they agreed he had something to do with Sonny's murder.

Actually I think one of the reasons Michael did what he did to Carlo was to get that confession in front of witnesses so there could be no doubt that Carlo was guilty AND that Michael was one tough hombre, whou would even kill his brother in law.

I agree Don T, but I have to go to the novel for a moment, which makes it clear that both Rocco and Tom were shocked that Michael needed to hear Carlo's confession because "he was not yet the man that his father was" or something to that effect.

A very interesting question TB. I had to ponder it for a while before answering.

I believe that Cicci's line was not a test. As far as Michael was concerned, his father's telling him, that whoever comes to you with this Barzini meeting is the traitor, was good enough. IMO Vito's word was all that Michael needed.

I dont get the "Michael wasnt the man his father was" talk.

He KNEW Carlo had set Sonny up. (that look he throws in Carlo's direction when he is leaving the (right hand man)meeting)... if anything Vito was NOT sure about Carlo and Sonny.

Michael KNEW from the Tessio meeting at Vito's funeral that IT WAS TESSIO. If Tessio would have said "oh ok I will change my plans... he STILL gets whacked" No doubt.

When Michael asks Carlo "now who was it Barzini or D'Italia" I think he was just wanting to confirm what his father thought all along. You were right pop

"Michael was NOT YET the man that his father was."

D'Italia? Was that the head of the mysterious sixth family?

Michael probably wanted to be EXTRA-EXTRA certain about Tessio's treachery, TB. The same way that he wanted to be EXTRA-EXTRA certain about Carlo's involvement w/ Barzini.

All the same it's a great question by you, and one that I don't think has been posted before.

BINGO! As others have already pointed out, Mike KNEW (from Vito) that whoever set up the meeting was the one going against him. This was no test!

But no one has answered the question if D'Italia was the Don of the mysterious sixth family?

That was him - Flip D'Italia.

I don't buy either. Michael was simply enjoying toying with Carlo. That's all it was. He was the shark circling his prey. Remember when Vito put Bonasera through that grueling "you don't even call me Godfather" song and dance. Well, Michael's getting Carlo to admit his guilt was a form of that same thing.

As far as Tessio goes, it was just a way to make the scene more dramatic.

I think Michael did it to both Carlo and Tessio so he could be 100% sure.Yes Vito did warn him earlier about the person who approaches him but maybe Michael just needed to know first.Carlo on the other hand,i think Michael just wanted him to actually admit to it before killing him.By both Tessio and Carlo admitting their betrayal it gave Michael more satisfaction.

Wicked post guys, it brings up the awesome intricacy of the movie, in so far as having watched it multiple times there are a huge amount of things that will come to mind.

LMAO

Leotardo or Leonardo?
Tattaglia or D'Italia?

No, it was the D'ilightful family.

Yea as stated, the statemment for Tessio wasn't a test. Its not like Cicci was going to report back to micheal depending on Tessio's actions.
But Carlo on the other hand, it stated in the book, that Micheal was looking to be 100% certain for his justification to kill carlo. Thats why it was said he wasnt the man his father was yet.

Maybe Tom could decide on that point whether to release Tessio depending on his reactions.
Tessio-'Oh, I can change my plans'
Tom-'Let's come in and have a drink of cocktail...'

GODFATHER DIALOGUE LEFT ON THE CUTTING ROOM FLOOR:

Michael - Barzini's dead, so is Phillip Tattaglia, Moe Green, Stracci, Cuneo....today I settle all family business so don't tell me you're innocent Carlo. Admit what you did. (to Neri (Get him a drink)

Carlo takes the drink and has a sip.

Carlo - Like I told you Mikey I'm innocent. But I know who did it. It was the "D'Italias."

Michael (glaring at Tom) - How did I forget about the D'Italias?? How did I miss that? Tom, once again this shows you're not a wartime consigliere. (Muttering....) God Damn D'Italias, even Fredo would have been smart enough to rub them out.

Carlo - Let me help you take revenge against them.

Michael - All right Carlo. Just stay here a minute. Al, go out to the car and tell Clemenza "never mind."

The mysterious 6h family has finally shown it's face!

Thank you Scarfather.

Right!

They were the Italian ones.

No. In the novel it's the guys around Michael that are comparing him to his father.

"...and tell him to send the garrote to HBO--I hear they're going to make a new series called 'The Wire.' "

Send the garrote to HBO... I hear they want to revise the ending to one of their mob shows.

LMAO... you guys are having a good time with that one huh...

And you're a good sport about it!