Tom gets a pass?

Of all the characters in the Tril, Tom Hagen seems to be the one who garners the most sympathy when you consider how Michael excludes him from the action and uses him. But, more importantly, I think many viewers fail to contrast his pacific demeanor with the absolutely horrific acts he facilitated directly or indirectly, his willing participation in murder and mayhem. Your thoughts.

I believe that the reason for Tom's calm and cool demeanor, which is almost a facade for the type of person that he really is, is that he was trained and schooled by Vito on how to keep his temper, to be reasonable, and when called for, cold and cunning. When you think about it out of all the children, Tom was probably with Vito more than any of them.

I think that he learned not to be offended and not to react in haste when offended or attacked. And at the same time he knew how and when to do what needed to be done, even if it meant having someone killed. Like Vito, Tom knew that he had to think things out before reacting.

Tom really knew the meaning of the term "It's not personal, it's strictly business."


Yes, Tom does garner sympathy from the viewer at times, as did Sonny and Vito. But he, just like them, was a stone cold murderer, despite the demeanor that he displays in most of both movies.



Don Cardi

I think Tom, in spite of his temper, was the most dangerous. He was so reflexive, he thinks everything instead of acting, and he makes what he must do where and when it must be done.

I don't recall Tom ever showing that he had a bad temper.




Don Cardi

Tom's brilliance and nobility, as well as his intellectual and moral superiority may be attributed to the fact that he was a lawyer.

If Toma was Italian, don't you think he would be the new Don after Vito???

"A lawyer with one briefcase is better than 100 men with guns."



I'll take the 100 men with guns.



Don Cardi

Not sure if anyone in here has ever put it like that but I agree 100%. He was Vito to a fault, he became TOO calm and cool, he didn't realize that sometimes you have to roll the dice and break the mold a bit. Luckily, Mike did. Thus they were able to eliminate McCluskey and Sollozo despite Tom's initial cautious reservations against the plan.

I think Tom's character has one of the greatest developments in the movie though as he learns as much from Mike as he did from Vito.

Yes indeed. Just recall his pitch for the drugs business: "There's more money potential in drugs than in any other business we could be in." Even the Don of Detroit said he didn't want it sold to children or near schools--"that would be an infamia." I got the feeling that Tom wouldn't care if it were sold at convents, as long as the sisters could pay.
And, of course, the hooker in Fredo's brothel...
DC made a brilliant point about Tom being the most like Vito. Yes, it was in his training. And also like Vito: we're sympathetic to Tom because of the way he's portrayed, and because of his loyalty to the family. We're also sympathetic to Vito because of the way he's played and because he's a "family man." But both of them never hesitated to shed blood in furtherance of their business--"utmost reasonableness backed up by murder..."

I agree with everyone here.
Remember when Tessio asks him if he could get him off the hook, "for old time's sake"
Tom had a look on his face like he most definitely enjoyed saying, "can't do it Sally". He was as cold as ice.

What I was really trying to get at was, as many have posted, Tom was cool and calm on the outside. However, I contend that his soul was just as black as Vito's et al. He was just as monstrous despite the fact that he apparently never wielded a gun, garrot, or knife. How many lives did he help to destroy?

That's just how I took it, Olivant. I couldn't agree more. He had no qualms about murder, making him every bit as sociopathic as any other mafioso.

Tom was one of the most amazing characters in the Trilogy, and Robert Duvall played him perfectly. Always neatly attired, always even-tempered, answering insults with compliments, never ruffled. Yet ready to help carry out whatever nefarious scheme was necessary to help The Family.

I always thought that Tom got the short end of the, "Oh, if you were a wartime conigliere..." deal. He tried to stop Sonny, he sent the bodyguards after him, what more could he have done to prevent him from leaving?? He begged Sonny not to kill Tattaglia's son and he warned Vito that they should take Sollozzo's deal. He was a bit like Cassandra, no?

I agree. As I've stated in other threads, I've always felt for Tom in that regard. I think he deserved some of the blame for Sonny, etc...but not as much as Michael heaped on him.

Now that's a line that should have been in the movie.

Maybe Michael never got over Sonny dying and blamed Tom alot. That may explain why Michael was so horrible to Tom.

That does explain why Mike was so horrible to Tom. Again, everyone in Michael's life, at least at that point, were utilitarian to him.

But Tom was little different. He sanctioned and facilitated murder and mayhem, the destruction of people and institutions, and was quite willing to participate in the rending of the societal fabric.

The only time he came close to losing his temper was with Sonny when they have an argument about Sonny getting a bad reputation for the way he was waging the war.

When he was doing the "This Committe owes an apology" thing it was pure grandstanding .

But I don't think that Tom really lost his temper with Sonny in that scene. I think it was more of a "wake up, see what you're causing?" type of outburst. I don't think that he was actually mad, but more that he spoke in a raised tone of voice to make Sonny realize that he was serious about what he was trying to tell him.


Don Cardi

Agreed, which is why I said "close to losing his temper." As I think about this, all of the Corleone sons and daughter in one way or another let their emotions get the best of them. Sonny is the most obvious, of course, but Fredo shows his temper in the "I'm smaht" thing and Michael, imho let emotions get in the way with all his grudges and nastiness to Tom and others. Connie, also was a little unscrewed in GF I and II, although she calmed down a lot in III.

Limited as Tom's show of temper was with Sonny in two instances, it illustrated how he was closer to (and felt he could speak more firmly to) Sonny, who had "adopted" him as a child. His manner around Michael bordered on patronizing before the Sollozzo/McCluskey murders, then turned humble and even near-obsequious after Michael returned from Sicily.

Maybe we have dug up too much hidden meaning in GF series.

Great reads guys.... good stuff...

Here is my thing with Tom... he ALWAYS seemed to want to reason things out and take the non-violent approach(which in normal real life is fine for the most part)... he would have been a bad Don in my opinion. You needed to be MORE Michael than TOM in order to "WIN" and "PRESERVER" and "TRANSCEND" the Corleone family name.

Tom would surely have been assassinated in one his meetings if he were a Don. Michale wiped any "meeting" members

Tom was a lawyer, and he approached things as a lawyer would, notwithstanding his upbringing in a Sicilian household. But he was not a Sicilian, and did not have the famous "Sicilian cunning" that Puzo referred to in the novel. The most revealing example, IMO, is his failure to anticipate that Carlo would want revenge after Sonny publicly beat and humiliated him. From Tom's lawyerly viewpoint, Carlo--who depended on the Corleones for a living--would never bite the hand that fed him. And he'd never escape detection. But a Sicilian would anticpate Carlo's overarching need for personal revenge, no matter how illogical or dangerous.
In the novel, following Sonny's murder, Tom admits to himself that he's not a wartime consigliere: "Old Genco would have smelled a rat." Exactly!

I had wondered if Carlo was "planted" in the Corleone family from day one... I know, not likely... but something along the lines of how Donnie Brasco was planted(brought in by Pacino) in the movie Donnie Brasco.

Could Barzini have planted Carlo from the jump?

In a word, no.

It was Sonny that brought Carlo home to meet Connie in the first place.

Ahh... but Pacino brings Donnie to his boss.... so someone could have planted Carlo to be found by Sonny... which leads to bringing him home to meet Connie.

As Turnbull says, Tom was a lawyer and lawyers are trained to convince people, not threaten them. Tom was not a Sicilian, so he did not have a Sicilan's cunning. In any case, some lawyers are better than others. But keep in mind that Vito taught Tom to never threaten and to always reason.

You want to stop it now?

Yeah ... that was it... no more on that one... just a "you never know" LOL

Yeah, you never know. I never knew, until this day, that it was Connie all along!

...and Tom as a 12-year-old "plant..."

Your discussion has reminded me of Vito's refusal to give Carlo some position in the family business.
How could Vito perceive the possible treachery from Carlo if he were given any important position?

Aside from his obvious condoning and facilitating of murder, did Tom actually murder anyone? Did he ever make his bones or did the Don just bring him in do you think?

I don't believe that Tom ever murdered anyone by his own hand.

Vito would have never allowed that because it could have implications down the road and effect Tom's stature as a lawyer.
Vito never influenced Tom to come into the family business. Vito supported Tom's decision to go to law school and when he was done it was Tom who asked Vito if he could work in the Corleone family business.

Remember what Vito told Tom about a lawyer with one briefcase?

That's a good point. I can't really imagine him killing anyone directly, which is strange considering how much blood he must have on his hands indirectly.

Exactly, DC! And, under Michael's Donship, he needed Tom to be "legit" and "clean" to represent the family in Nevada and advance Michael's quest for "legitimacy." We tend to think of Tom's being "out" as consigliere as a punishment for not being a "wartime consigliere...things could get rough." In fact, he needed to be unconnected to the rough stuff so he could be untainted when he represented the family at gaming license hearings, etc.