The dead girl

What do you think happened with Senator Geary and the dead girl?

- Do you think it was a setup?
If so,how was it planned?-certainly Michael didnt order the death of a young girl...or did he?

- or do you think it was just a matter of "luck" for Michael,Geary actually killed her and Michael just used the opportunity to put the Senator "in his pocket"?

- and theres another option...could it be that the Senator was involved with other crime figures and THEY killed that girl to frame Geary...for whatever reasons they wanted Geary out of the picture.
Of course,you can say that they could have taken the Senator himself and get it done with that night,but maybe they didnt want to kill a "Figure" like the senator,cos then that will cause much more havoc which will bring the heat onto their families.
Killing a "nobody girl" is much easier.

So please vote and explain your decision.

Obviously Michael set up Geary with that girl. It was Michael's way of getting backm at Geary for the disrepect he had shown Michael at their meeting, it was a way for Michael to get Geary in his pocket and in his debt. A triple play for The Corleones! What would make you think that a Mafia family would NOT kill some innocent girl for their own gain? There is absolutely NO QUESTION that Michael had the whole thing set up.


Don Cardi

Al Neri hanging around in the bathroom is a none too subtle clue!

It was Michael yes

I had started a thread on a related topic a few months ago and a few members had responded saying that Neri was shown washing his hands in the bathroom or he was wiping his knife. But I could spot neither of these. I wonder if anyone could make out what Neri was doing, on first viewing of the movie. Or my eyesight is just bad, I don't know

I think you are all wrong.
Michael has changed a lot,yes,but to kill a random girl just to get the Senator in his pocket...NO WAY.
Michael had turned to be cold and cunning,but there are a few things that no matter how tough you get,you simply dont do,Michael is moral inside-as far as it goes for a mafia boss,he will order the death of his enemies,thats part of being a mafia boss,but he does not go around killing random people for a little revenge, or business.
Michael is very cruel,but he is not a monster.
Yes,he killed his brother,but Fredo was hardly innocent..but to go and say that hes killing a random innocent girl - that is OUT OF THE QUESTION.

Maybe that was some setup in the hotel,but whatever it was,Michael didnt kill that girl.

Al Neri is a clue???--what,he killed her,and waited in the bath for Geary to wake up and SEE him??

Al Neri was there for one reason : to keep Geary from doin anyhting until Tom has arrived.
Fredo was working in the hotel,so he "called Neri for help"...or something like that.

No matter what a sinner Michael was,the sins are of his world,people of his world - never an innocent outsider.

I know that you all disagree with me,but I think you go too easy saying Michael Corleone did this and Michael Corleone did that...

Now who is being naive Kay?

This is Michael Corleone youre talking about.
Vito's son.
A man who risked his life to save random people in the war.
And now hes killing random people...yes youre right,whos being naive Kay?

One more thing-If you read the novel,you would know Al Neri's character a bit better - there is no way Al Neri would kill an innocent girl.

There is no doubt about it, michael set up geary by having the girl kiled.

You say, why would he have killed an innocent girl?

The fact is michael needed something on geary to get him into his pocket and to kill a meaningless prostitute was a minor expense.

This thread points up another subtheme in the Trilogy: "civilian" casualties:
At the beginning of GF, the guys who shot Vito didn't turn their guns on Fredo, even though they knew he was armed, was acting as his old man's bodyguard, and could have shot at them. In the novel, Sollozzo tells Michael, "Freddie is alive because of me." He didn't want more bad feelings than necessary. A bit later, when Michael proposes to go to NYC to visit Kay, Sonny insists that bodyguards accompany him. Clemenza states, confidently, that bodyguards are unnecessary because "Sollozzo knows he's a civilian." (Sonny prevails.)
But, by the end of the film, during the Great Massacre of 1955, civilians are dropping like flies: the whore in bed with Tattaglia; Barzini's chauffeur; the guy in the elevator with Stracci (who may have been a civilian) and probably the elevator operator as well (could anyone survive two shotgun blasts in a small elevator car?). Michael didn't seem to care who got in the way of his need to "settle all family business." The same applied to that unfortunate hooker in Fredo's brothel: her life was needed to put Geary's coglioni in Michael's pocket.
Michael got his own comeuppance: Roth's machinegun attack on Michael's bedroom was designed to wipe out Michael and anyone else there (including Kay). And then there was Mary in GFIII... sic transit the myth that the Mafia only "kills its own."

Yes Turnbull,but then all the examples you gave except that girl are all casualties of the moment.

Innocent ppl go down for sure,but they are not the target.
In every war,mafia or not,the different sides attack each other KNOWING that innocent ppl will get killed along the way like that guy in the elevator...

But that girl was a planned murder.
Any other mafia boss,I would agree he didnt care about her life.
But Michael Corleone,despite the big change,was not a man to plan the death of a young random girl,that was not in his character,no matter how tough he became.
Same thing about Al Neri.
They are both in the Mafia,but they are men of honor,they will not hurt someone who did NOTHING against them.

Fame, you're right: the hooker's death was the only one that I cited that was cold-bloodedly planned, rather than random. But it just points up the change in Michael's character: from innocent patriot and war hero rejecting the family business, to cold-hearted killer, letting nothing stand in his way.

What did Puzo had to say about that?(if you know)

I heard that he wasnt happy with Michael killing Fredo.
It would be interesting to know what he thought about that dead girl.

I don't know what Puzo thought about this scene, but I know that all sequels were more FFC's product, he disregarded Puzo's opinions and MP finally gave up and FFC did what he wanted. His main goal was to make Michael as evil as possible, because critics said after GF1 that he appeared too good. For this goal he, in my opinion, entirely and giftlessly screw up (If it is the right expression for a total flaw ) the greatest character created by Puzo. Personally I cannot consider GF2 (modern scenes) as a part of original Godfather saga. It insults my intelligence and makes me very angry.
I don't say that he couldn't kill anyone. It's just a detail. Of a sad picture full of things he could never possibly do.

You've made your mind up anyway, so why poll alternative opinions?

Al Neri was clearly standing in the bathroom "tidying up" after the girls murder.

Could not have been clearer if it had hit you in the face.

The Al Neri in the novel that you refer to was also compared to Luca Brasi at his worst, who would lay down his own life for Michael. Cold blooded murder meant nothing to him by this point in his life.

To see what other ppl think.
I thought it would be a nice topic to discuss.
I'm really sorry it turned out to be a stupid poll.

I dont think you ever make up your mind about the Godfather.
There is always more you didnt see than what you did see.
There is always more you didnt know than what you did know.
Thats the greatness of the Godfather.

I know its a question that goes against the mainstream opinion, but I was interested about that point in the movie.

Again,Im sorry about this thread.Thank you everyone for replying

Hagen's instructions to Geary were also clearly planned out. There isn't much to debate here.

I just want to throw in my 2 cents to this thread. One thing that stands out in the post for me is Hagen's words to Geary: "Luckily, this nightclub belongs to my brother Fredo. If this had taken place anywhere else, we wouldn't have been able to help you, Senator." Hagen is clearly indicating to Geary that it is Michael Coreleone whom he (Geary) owes his gratitude. That is PRECISELY what Michael was trying to get from Geary: his gratitude, therefore Geary's protection, hence, Geary's lies to protect Michael during those meetings, and Michael's deftly crafted facade of innocence. That is what is so unnerving about these wiseguys! They commit the most heinous crimes against humanity, yet they have no problem marching into Church with their children every Sunday. So, I think that this particular situation was purposely put into the story to show us without screaming it out to us how thin a line these men walked. It also shows how far off the main road Michael and we had gotten.

It is so sad to see such a good, moral human being suddenly take an about face and for such selfish reasons yet!

~~ Lollie

Interestingly no one has given thought to the notion that Tom Hagen ordered this. Remember that at the time, Michael had gone to Miami and Havana after the attempted hit. Remember also that Geary had told Mike that he never wanted to be directly contacted again. Just before Michael left Nevada, he and Tom met in the boathouse, and
he explained to Tom that he knew he had not included him in everything, and that he knew this had hurt Tom in the past. Then he told Tom that he was leaving and that Tom was going to be the Don. Michael said he was turning all his power over to Tom, and specifically mentioned "Neri and his men."

This was Tom's only real chance to be the head of the family, and I think he may have wanted to show Michael that he was every bit as tough as a "real" Corleone. It was Neri who was hiding in the bathroom while Geary was going on and on about how he didnt remember, and it was Tom who showed up at the bordello to get Geary out of there. The end result is the family gained an ally instead of an enemy in Geary, and basically "owned" him thereafter.

I doubt that Tom ordered the girl to be whacked. Approval for a murder (particularly in Nevada, where Michael was trying to pose as "legitimate") would have to come from Michael. Yes, Tom theoretically was "the Don," and was "in charge." But I'm thinking that, since Fredo owned the brothel and Geary had been there before, Michael had stored that bit of info as something he could use against Geary if he needed to. Well, Geary made his insulting "I intend to squeeze you" speech, and I'm guessing that, after he did, Michael told Hagen, "Next time he visits Fredo's brothel, let's put the squeeze on him." So, that plan may have been approved even before Michael took off.